School me on speakers and amps

[BucknutBob]

Cool - so if I placed the tweeters in the dash right next to the door, and the drivers in the door down by my foot, and the crossover somewhere relatively in the middle (like hidden in the kickpanels), I'd be solid? Or do I want them closer than that?

Ideally you want them on the same plane--facing the same direction, at the same angle. You want the tweeters catching as much of BOTH ears as possible (right tweet to right ears, left to left ears--remember "stereo" effect), angling across the cab--the dash may aim them too much straight at the face. The Yota's door panels are relatively short, so with both speakers on the panel, both the separation and the angles are taken care of. You can mount the crossover anywhere, but if it's small enough, it's usually best to hide it behind the door panel in some cut-out area--that way there's only one set of wires passing through the door jamb. Another option for speaker placement is using kick panel mounts--these low-mounted spots have great angles to the ears, and keep the speakers both close together and out of the doors, but they're vulnerable to getting kicked and muddy, plus take up foot space. Just another possibility. I've used both designs, and both sounded good, but I made a mess of the kick panels with my boots, so beware.

 

[RAD4Runner]

... It's a noisy beast, ... of 6 inchers I've got hacked into the door panels ...I'd like to put a pair of 8's or 10's in the back too. My deck has 4 sets of speaker wires.

... You could run 4 speakers (fronts & rears) off the deck, but you'd definitely need an amp to power subs. I'd run the in-door 6.5" speakers as fronts, and put some other speakers in the back for rears (6x9's in a box would work), and then add subs if you want.

:iagree:

Cheap stuff. My rig isn't secure, so nice components are out of the question.

My 2 cents:
Many of us chose the first gen because we want things simple and inexpensive, and I want to leave my truck at the trailhead for days and sleep soundly in my tent knowing thieves would rather steal someone else's stereo :biggrin2:. My 1986 also came with what seems to be inexpensive stereo (head unit) with front and and rear speakers. It seems like right now you are only using the power to front speakers (2 sets of wire to left and right door), and rear power is wasted. Here's how I would optimize what I've already got (After I do my Zuk mod.

Minimalist Approach

• Keep existing front door speakers.
• Mount rear speakers to panels beside rear passenger seats, if there's room, instead of the rear deck. Then, run the 2 unused sets of wire (left rear and right rear) to speakers. Use 6x9 or an 8-incher depending on space & feedback from other members. Pick speakers that closely match your head unit power. This would put that unused rear power to use and rear speakers would be closer to you.
• Option is mount rears in a particle board enclosure that fits in triangle formed by top of wheel well and under roll bar (design with visibility in mind). The enclosure would produce louder and cleaner bass compared to mounting in body panel, and allow you to turn volume up without rattling body panels. (I will actually do this on mine).
• Use sound damping materials like Shadow suggests. With or without music, it would help if we eliminated some wind/road noise. Less noise also means we can hear more music without needing much more power.
• Add a Sub-woofer for more bass IF your existing head unit has a line-out. This requires an amp. This is optional and modular. If you want more bass, have room and are not leaving truck in suspect places put the sub and amp assembly in the rear deck and connect. If you need space or are leaving truck in suspect places, leave sub/amp assembly at home.

BTW, thanks for the warm welcome, KidVermicious.

 

[KidVermicious]

Thanks, everybody. I think I'll try putting a pair of speakers in the back, and if that doesn't cut it I'll pursue adding an amp and components.

 

[shadow247]

you are in the wrong place if you want to learn about audio. audio treads on t4r.org suck s with very few exceptions
try this one instead
diyAudio

Dude you should get a clue. While I am new to this forum, I am in now way new to car audio. I have built more stereo systems than I care to count. I have had at least 10 different audio setups in the 5 vehicles I have owned in the last 10 years. If ANYONE on here needs advice on car audio, please feel free to PM me and I will be happy to help you out with any questions. I am not super knowledgeable on 4Runners, but what I lack in knowledge, I make up for in my ability to gleen information from the literally hundreds of thousands of posts out there on car audio.

Back on topic...

Kid - You should seriously consider amping your speakers. I have added an amplifier to factory systems without even changing speakers and it will improve the sound. If you are dead set on adding a set of rear speakers, you should definitely look at adding an amplifier. It will give you a 100% improvement in sound quality and volume. Adding some sound deadening will also be a huge improvement. I spent $100 on sound deadening in my Ford Focus and it made such a huge improvement in the overall sound I couldn't believe I was running the same stereo system.

 

[IanB]

I wouldn't even waste your time on the 6x9's. IMO they don't sound all that great. You would be better off spending the cash on a decent set of component speakers and amplifier. Believe me when I say that amplifying the front speakers will give you twice as much sound as running a set of 6x9's off of the deck. 6.5" components will give you all the sound you need. The system I posted up earlier is a great budget system with quality components that should last a long time. I'm sure you could pick up everything you need used for under 300 bucks, but 375 for brand new equipment is a great deal! I have installed about 80-100 stereo systems, and always recommended against 6x9's and adding a subwoofer instead. It adds depth to the music with the components filling in the mids and highs. You will not be dissappointed at all if you go for the system I posted earlier, but I can guarantee you will not be happy if you just add a set of cheap 6x9's in boxes and run them off of the deck.

For a stereo with no subs, a decent 6x9 will provide more bass than any 6.5 running off the deck. This isn't an audiophile level stereo we're shooting for, and 6x9's for rear fill would provide bass that the fronts just can't.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Shadow,
I don't think he was talking to you.

&& This forum is not very strong on car audio at all. the /audio-electronics/ section is very DEAD with only the occasion "i don't know what I'm doing" threads to keep us entertained. Sorry but its true. The other forums mentioned all have thousands of weekly posts and tons of "DIY Guides" or "Noob Guides" to car audio; T4R has none of that interaction.

I love T4R but I can't recommend it for car audio at all.

Just go to either one of these sites to get serious Noob help:

http://diymobileaudio.com/
** or **
www.avsforum.com

 

[Victor_inox]

Dude you should get a clue. While I am new to this forum, I am in now way new to car audio. I have built more stereo systems than I care to count. I have had at least 10 different audio setups in the 5 vehicles I have owned in the last 10 years. If ANYONE on here needs advice on car audio, please feel free to PM me and I will be happy to help you out with any questions. I am not super knowledgeable on 4Runners, but what I lack in knowledge, I make up for in my ability to gleen information from the literally hundreds of thousands of posts out there on car audio.
.

Dude, I`m happy that there is audio genius available now for everyone to ask.
Btw, i suggested using amplification before you did. i too known a thing or too about electronics.
Kid... sorry I pissed you off before.I have an amp I`ll give you for the price of shipping, nothing fancy but works well and will be enough to power a pair of 100w speakers.pm me if you want it.
Max. Power @ 20 : 300W x 2= 600W
Bridgeable : 240W x 1= 240W
Power @ 2 Ohm:120W x 2 = 240W
Power @ 4 Ohm: 80W x 2 =160W
3/2/1 Channel Operation
Variable Low Pass Filter
Variable High Pass Filter
2 Ohm Stable Stereo
Low/High Level Input
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20KHz
Gain Control, Power Indicator
Signal to Noise Ratio: Better Than 80db
Channel Separation: Better Than 55db
Gold Plated RCA Jack
Dual Fan Cooling System
Dimension: 11.9"(W) x 2.56" (H) x 9.17" (L)
you can bridge it as well to power a sub.

 

[KidVermicious]

Kid - You should seriously consider amping your speakers. I have added an amplifier to factory systems without even changing speakers and it will improve the sound. If you are dead set on adding a set of rear speakers, you should definitely look at adding an amplifier. It will give you a 100% improvement in sound quality and volume. Adding some sound deadening will also be a huge improvement. I spent $100 on sound deadening in my Ford Focus and it made such a huge improvement in the overall sound I couldn't believe I was running the same stereo system.

I will consider an amp, I promise.

To give you an idea of what level I'm working at, after the truck got broken into and the existing deck and speakers stolen, I replaced it with a 30 dollar deck and garage sale speakers. I'm really not looking to invest hundreds of dollars here, because as long as I have the soft top my truck is completely unsecured. So to run an amp and nice/expensive speakers, I'd want to build a locking compartment for them first, and that's kinda down the road in terms of my build priorities. Right now, I mostly want to be able to hear my tunes over the highway noise.

I do appreciate your advice, and it's given me good food for thought.

 

[KidVermicious]

I have an amp I`ll give you for the price of shipping, nothing fancy but works well and will be enough to power a pair of 100w speakers.pm me if you want it.

Really? That's insanely cool of you, I might just take you up on that. I'm zip code 84044, lemme know!

And don't worry about pissing me off, I've been insanely cranky the past couple days and probably have no business interacting with polite company.

 

[Victor_inox]

pm me your shipping address please

 

[92-SR5]

Another option for cheaper bass is the all in one packages or whatever they call them. Pretty much have a sub, enclosure, and amp all built into one.
Like this audiobahn one for example:
Audiobahn ATB10AJ 10" Amplified Bass Cylinder Subwoofer Enclosure

 

[RAD4Runner]

Another option for cheaper bass is the all in one packages or whatever they call them. Pretty much have a sub, enclosure, and amp all built into one.
Like this audiobahn one for example:
Audiobahn ATB10AJ 10" Amplified Bass Cylinder Subwoofer Enclosure

This is an example of clean & modular way to go if:

• One's already happy with the 4 speakers (2 fronts and 2 rears),
• We get good feedback about this particular setup from fellow members, and
• One's only trying to make a decent upgrade without needing to impress others.

92-SR5, have you heard this system in action? How is it?

 

[RAD4Runner]

Rear Speakers Beside Rear Seats , Not in Rear Deck

Thanks, everybody. I think I'll try putting a pair of speakers in the back, and if that doesn't cut it I'll pursue adding an amp and components.

Hi guys,
Just came across this on Yota Tech:
1st gen 4runner custom rear seat 6.75" speaker install - YotaTech Forums

This is what I'm talking about. Rear speakers closer to front and closer to passengers, not in rear deck. In a vehicle we want sound-stage mode (sounds like performers are in front of us).
Rear deck speaker placement is more for 5.1 channels surround/ home theater sound (choppers hovering above, bombs, bullets whizzing by above and and behind us).
As poster mentions, he wants the space under roll-bars for sub-woofer. Makes sense. You can place sub woofers anywhere you have room and it will fill space evenly with bass.

 

[KidVermicious]

So I cracked the rear panels and there's no provision back there to mount speakers. I'm going to have to make mounts and attach them to the body panel. I'm assuming plywood will be best for that? Or should I use straps of sheet metal?

(Yes, I know I could build enclosures and tuck them into the roll cage. Don't wanna, I have other plans for that space.)

 

[BrianSD_42]

Actually all you need to do is cut the appropriate sized hole using metal scissors and then use some type of rubber like dynamat to insulate between the speaker and the door metal. I simply removed the plastic housing and mounted it to the door with rubber sound mat to fill the gaps.

 

[BucknutBob]

If you're making panels for the speakers, I would go with medium density fiberboard (MDF) instead of plywood--it will dampen the resonance that causes distortion. It's what they use for sub boxes. As Brian mentioned, then you can use something like Dynamat to dampen the rest of the area.

 

[KidVermicious]

Actually all you need to do is cut the appropriate sized hole using metal scissors and then use some type of rubber like dynamat to insulate between the speaker and the door metal. I simply removed the plastic housing and mounted it to the door with rubber sound mat to fill the gaps.

No, the problem is the hole's too big . There's a giant gap in the sheet metal where I want to mount the speaker, so I'll get myself a couple chunks of MDF and go to town, thanks guys!

 

[KidVermicious]

Ok, so I got the front wires moved into the Infinity 4" speakers in the dash (and just by themselves, they sound way better than the 6.5" JBLs I had in the doors), and I made a couple mounts of MDF to mount the 6ers in the back body panel, behind the roll cage. All I've got to say is wow... before, driving on the freeway with the top down I had to crank the volume to 40 or 45, and the highs got so strident as to blow your ears out. Now I can hear my tunes well at a comfortable 30 on the volume dial. What a difference! All I have left to do is build some spacers to go between the MDF and the body panel, because the speakers push on the rear panels and buzz a little.

If at some point down the road I feel like I need more, I've got that 2channel amp that I'll use for a pair of 10s or 12s that are where the 6.5s are now, and put the 6.5s in pods on the roll bar. But I don't know if that will even be necessary, I'm satisfied with where it's at for now.

 

[BucknutBob]

If you decide to add a sub, I'd go with just one 10" or 12" and bridge the 2-ch. amp into one--you don't have to balance them out with two speakers, as they're pretty much non-directional at those freq's. Glad to hear what you've done so far is working out--it makes a world of difference having solid tunes in a vehicle!

 

[RAD4Runner]

No Added Amps?

Cool!

So those Infinity 4"'s are good, huh? And they fit in stock location in dash?May we know what model?

If you did this without additional amp power, it simply helps prove that good acoustics is the foundation, before we upgrade electronics.
Good acoustics is finesse; Additional amp power is brute force.

Happy summer, guys!

Ok, so I got the front wires moved into the Infinity 4" speakers in the dash (and just by themselves, they sound way better than the 6.5" JBLs I had in the doors), and I made a couple mounts of MDF to mount the 6ers in the back body panel, behind the roll cage. All I've got to say is wow... before, driving on the freeway with the top down I had to crank the volume to 40 or 45, and the highs got so strident as to blow your ears out. Now I can hear my tunes well at a comfortable 30 on the volume dial. What a difference! All I have left to do is build some spacers to go between the MDF and the body panel, because the speakers push on the rear panels and buzz a little.

If at some point down the road I feel like I need more, I've got that 2channel amp that I'll use for a pair of 10s or 12s that are where the 6.5s are now, and put the 6.5s in pods on the roll bar. But I don't know if that will even be necessary, I'm satisfied with where it's at for now.