Searching suspension options made my brain bleed. Need Input!

[jasonoflivingston]

Hey guys. My shocks are all, but dead so it is time to put a little money into the suspension and, while I currently have the tall coils on my '99 Limited, I want to lift it at least another inch. My problem is that money is somewhat tight. I can afford shocks and coil springs at most, but nothing else right now.

Below are the thoughts that have been running through my brain after reading and searching like crazy.

So far, I think I want to put some Bilstein 5100's on to replace my current shocks. I will be under the vehicle this weekend poking around to determine what kind of shape my coil springs are in (probably not too bad, but the salty winters are hard on everything under there and they are original).

I like the idea of the Tundra/LC combo and would ultimately like to get there, but the diff drop, panhard bar, extended brake lines, etc are beyond my budget and will be for some time I am thinking. Can I get away with this combo without the other bits for a while. I do take it off-road from time to time, although nothing too extreme. It is also a second vehicle so it doesn't see a whole lot of miles on the road.

The other idea I had was to just keep the tall coils if they are still in decent shape and maybe put a spacer in the rear and use the 5100s up front to add another inch or so, thus not really requiring the other bits like the diff drop and such. Then I can change the coils out when I can afford to do all the other stuff too.

Any other ideas or thoughts would be helpful.

 

[Brian757]

diff drop, panhard bar, extended brake lines, etc

None of those are immediately necessary when lifting these things. But without them, you leave your truck out of its factory angles and components misaligned. It will just put more wear on suspension parts and shorten the life of some components. But if the truck is a DD, and not a trail rig, you should be fine for awhile. (i.e. - Your not articulating your suspension and stressing those components.)

Hell, I think the whole diff drop thing is still in debate whether or not it is even beneficial.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/124824-ddd-official-diff-drop-debate-pic-s-2.html

I know the whole lift world is very intimidating. You honestly need some know-how while shopping. Here @ T4R.org, we don't mind threads from people who seem to have done their homework(Like you), we just hate to see, "JUST GOT A 4RUNNER, HOW DO I LIFT IT?!" The avid T4R'ers see these threads every couple of hours.

Keep the questions rolling BTW. And Tundra Bilstein 5100's and Old Man Emu's are a T4R favorite around here.

 

[jasonoflivingston]

Thanks for the info. One thing I was having a hard time finding information about was whether or not the 5100 series shocks would be too long for just the tall coils (keeping the ride hieght the same as it is now). If they would be ok with my current setup, I would consider holding off on the lift side of things until I could do all of it properly.

The other thing that I was not entirely sure on was the bushings in the shocks. My understanding is that I would have to press out the ones in the rear 5100's and replace them with 3/4" bushings (I think they come with 1/2" bushings?). Does the front need the same treatment?

Again, thanks for the help. It makes my brain hurt less!

 

[00 ltd]

I just installed some 5100s on the rear and did not have to change the bushings at all. When it comes time to install start with the bottom first I learned the hard way.

 

[jasonoflivingston]

Thanks for the tip. I can always use advice on the install portion as suspension is not something I have played with much to date and I am hoping to do the majority of the work myself (assembling the struts might still happen at the shop though unless I can get help with that).

Right now, I am leaning towards just keeping my tall coils and adding a spacer in the rear unless I find a good deal on some used coils by the time I get the other parts in.

 

[jasonoflivingston]

So, I think I win the idiot of the day award. My 4runner has been all over the road the last couple of weeks and some bumper bouncing seemed to indicate the shocks were in a pretty bad way. I decided the best thing was to replace them and begin my plans for lifting it at the same time.

Today, I planned to order parts for what would be an interim lift until I could afford the rest of the stuff I wanted to do. Before doing so, I rotated my tires, inspected my brakes and then took a closer look at my suspension.

In the process, I noticed that my tires seemed a touch soft. It turns out there were a lot soft. The tech that adjusted them when doing my oil change a week or two ago must have been pretty brain dead. He put them all at 20psi! :mmph:

Shocks are still going, but I think they will make it until spring. By then, I should be able to do this lift thing right and in one step!

*sigh* feel free to laugh. Note to self and others with 85 aspect ratio tires, air pressure matters....a lot! :doh:

 

[JayRolla]

So, I think I win the idiot of the day award. My 4runner has been all over the road the last couple of weeks and some bumper bouncing seemed to indicate the shocks were in a pretty bad way. I decided the best thing was to replace them and begin my plans for lifting it at the same time.

Today, I planned to order parts for what would be an interim lift until I could afford the rest of the stuff I wanted to do. Before doing so, I rotated my tires, inspected my brakes and then took a closer look at my suspension.

In the process, I noticed that my tires seemed a touch soft. It turns out there were a lot soft. The tech that adjusted them when doing my oil change a week or two ago must have been pretty brain dead. He put them all at 20psi! :mmph:

Shocks are still going, but I think they will make it until spring. By then, I should be able to do this lift thing right and in one step!

*sigh* feel free to laugh. Note to self and others with 85 aspect ratio tires, air pressure matters....a lot! :doh:

Dont feel bad, I had a company set my 60psi max tires at 22psi and I didnt notice till my tires started to wear really bad.

 

[Kanger328]

If you're on a budget, a good alternative for shocks/struts would be the Rough Country N2.0. I bought brand new OME coils + RC shocks on all 4 corners for $520. It could be cheaper for you if you buy a good used set of LC/Tundra coils. I was on a budget for my build and I couldn't justify paying $400 for Bilsteins alone. Just my .02.

 

[jasonoflivingston]

Thanks for the info. I haven't heard too much about the rough country stuff. How does it compare to some of the other setups out there for performance and durability?

 

[1985taylor1925]

Hey guys. My shocks are all, but dead so it is time to put a little money into the suspension and, while I currently have the tall coils on my '99 Limited, I want to lift it at least another inch. My problem is that money is somewhat tight. I can afford shocks and coil springs at most, but nothing else right now.

Below are the thoughts that have been running through my brain after reading and searching like crazy.

So far, I think I want to put some Bilstein 5100's on to replace my current shocks. I will be under the vehicle this weekend poking around to determine what kind of shape my coil springs are in (probably not too bad, but the salty winters are hard on everything under there and they are original).

I like the idea of the Tundra/LC combo and would ultimately like to get there, but the diff drop, panhard bar, extended brake lines, etc are beyond my budget and will be for some time I am thinking. Can I get away with this combo without the other bits for a while. I do take it off-road from time to time, although nothing too extreme. It is also a second vehicle so it doesn't see a whole lot of miles on the road.

The other idea I had was to just keep the tall coils if they are still in decent shape and maybe put a spacer in the rear and use the 5100s up front to add another inch or so, thus not really requiring the other bits like the diff drop and such. Then I can change the coils out when I can afford to do all the other stuff too.

Any other ideas or thoughts would be helpful.

Greetings. Its amazing how far asking a question in a logical way using proper english gets you on this forum. A lot of new members will jump on the forum and post something like, "hey guys what lift should I get??", and then they flamed, haha. So thanks for not doing that!

I currently run the Tundra/LC combo . . . well, sort of. I ran LC coils for about 3 months, and then switched to OME 891's in the back. I initially lifted mine because I was doing a lot of hauling as I was trying to start a rustic furniture business. But that didnt end up working out for the time being, and so my truck is really just a dd. I found that the LC coils were really really tall with no weight in the back. Mine lifted my truck around 4.5". At that height it affected the ride as the LC shocks were really extended. The result was a bouncy ride in the back. So I switched to the 891s which yeild between 2.5"-3". That lowered the LC shocks enough to put them in a stiffer region, making the ride much more controlled. I dont have a diff drop or panhard spacer installed on my truck. With 2" or less in the front, most agree that you dont need the diff drop. I will say that the panhard bracket or adjustable panhard bar would improve the ride in the back. I can see how my axle is misaligned with the lift, and I definately feel it on the highway when I hit a good sized bump. The back end likes to shift, and if the roads are slick that can be dangerous.

So your lift should depend on what youre going to use your truck for. If youre not going to be doing much hauling, wheeling, or adding weight to the back end, and your truck is going to remain primarily a dd, I might steer clear of the LC coils. I like my combo of LC shocks/891 coils in the back and Tundra coils/bilsteins up front, although I will say that its a bit too stiff for my liking as a dd.

I actually like your idea of staying with 99 coils, and then doing a 1" body lift and installing bilstein shocks. I think thats a really good option for a nice riding, 2"~ lifted dd, and Im considering doing that myself in the future. And it would be relatively cheap. Otherwise you can always find a good deal on used Tundra and LC coils around here if your patient.

Sorry for the megapost!

 

[jasonoflivingston]

I suppose the difference between myself and others is that I have taken the time to see most of what is out there and am really looking for honest, experience based advice in order to find the right fit for my circumstance. Most people just want to know what the current "popular" setup is so they can be like everyone else.

You do bring up some very interesting points. I have heard that the Tundra/LC setup can be a bit tall/hard riding if your rig is light. Staying with the '99 coils will help with this and limit the need for a panhard bar/bracket etc.

I am kind of stuck in the middle though on usage, hence my consideration of both options. For the warm half of the year my 4Runner stays mostly empty, but I do use it for several long trips each year, some of which include some wheeling. On those trips, I have the vehicle loaded down with gear and people. Also, during the winter, I put weight in the back for added traction (not allowed to stud the tires where I am unfortunately). When the truck is weighed down, I find the '99 coils too soft and the back sags pretty bad.

Because of my usage, half the year, the Tundra/LC setup seems like it would work well and the other half of the year, sticking with the '99 coils seems like a better option.

Due to the fact that my 4Runner gets out once or twice a week when not travelling (the rest of the time I drive my Corolla for fuel economy), I don't mind it riding a bit stiff which is why I have been leaning towards the Tundra/LC setup. I suppose I could try to mitigate a little by getting the shortest LC coils I can find.

How do you find the OME 891's for load carrying? Your setup may be a good balance between the two options that I have been looking at.

 

[1985taylor1925]

I suppose the difference between myself and others is that I have taken the time to see most of what is out there and am really looking for honest, experience based advice in order to find the right fit for my circumstance. Most people just want to know what the current "popular" setup is so they can be like everyone else.

You do bring up some very interesting points. I have heard that the Tundra/LC setup can be a bit tall/hard riding if your rig is light. Staying with the '99 coils will help with this and limit the need for a panhard bar/bracket etc.

I am kind of stuck in the middle though on usage, hence my consideration of both options. For the warm half of the year my 4Runner stays mostly empty, but I do use it for several long trips each year, some of which include some wheeling. On those trips, I have the vehicle loaded down with gear and people. Also, during the winter, I put weight in the back for added traction (not allowed to stud the tires where I am unfortunately). When the truck is weighed down, I find the '99 coils too soft and the back sags pretty bad.

Because of my usage, half the year, the Tundra/LC setup seems like it would work well and the other half of the year, sticking with the '99 coils seems like a better option.

Due to the fact that my 4Runner gets out once or twice a week when not travelling (the rest of the time I drive my Corolla for fuel economy), I don't mind it riding a bit stiff which is why I have been leaning towards the Tundra/LC setup. I suppose I could try to mitigate a little by getting the shortest LC coils I can find.

How do you find the OME 891's for load carrying? Your setup may be a good balance between the two options that I have been looking at.

Yeah, the Tundra/LC or 891 set up may be a good option for you then. I ran the 7 wraps which are the shortest LC coils (7, 8, and 9 wraps available). Although technically mine were 7.5 (passenger) and 7.75 (driver) wraps if you literally counted the coils. Those LC coils were just too tall for me. I cant imagine the 9 wraps! The 891's do well with weight. Ive had upwards of 500lbs in the cargo area and I would say they sag maybe .5", which sets the stance at about level. With no weight in the back you'll have a positive stance being that the front lift is a little shorter. 891's are stiffer and or course taller than the stock 99's, so sag shouldnt be much of a factor even with added weight. They ride great with the extra weight. I actually prefer having weight in the back to soften the ride and level the stance a bit.

Also your 99 coils are probably fairly soft from wear and age. Im sure a new set would feel different and sag less under weight. But from what it sounds like, 891's would be better suited for your use.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Anytime someone mentions they had trouble searching I always have to mention ....

Did you try the search recommendation thread which is a sticky (yay) and also in my signature?


http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...te-search-toyota-4runner-3rd-gen-section.html


:high5:

 

[BrianSD_42]

You do bring up some very interesting points. I have heard that the Tundra/LC setup can be a bit tall/hard riding if your rig is light. Staying with the '99 coils will help with this and limit the need for a panhard bar/bracket etc.

I would have to disagree with what you have heard. I have the SS 1.2A kit and it is totally awesome.

I have not added any extra weight to the rear end. Some of the guys who have added a swing away tire carrier, which completely changes the rear end suspension dynamics from stock, have changed out the rear coils after their original SS 1.2A install.

Myself and many of the others who did not add a rear tire carrier just kept it the same with the LC coils and LC shocks in the rear.

This setup is really great in my opinion and I have been very very happy with it.

I have had this suspension for about 5 years now.

 

[jasonoflivingston]

Anytime someone mentions they had trouble searching I always have to mention ....

Did you try the search recommendation thread which is a sticky (yay) and also in my signature?


http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-g...te-search-toyota-4runner-3rd-gen-section.html


:high5:

Sometimes the problem is not a lack of searching (hence the brain bleeding portion of the thread title), but too much searching. There is a vast amount of knowledge to be had by searching as well as severely conflicting information. Your comments about the Tundra/LC setup from SS being awesome with no vehicle weight proves this.

Out of curiosity, what does the "A" stand for? I am familiar with the 1.2 setup from SS. Is there an "A" variant that is slightly different or is that just the more detailed name for that setup?

Also, since you have that kit, can you comment on the effectiveness of the adjustable panhard bar that comes with it? Does it make a big difference in your experience?