Secondary Air Injection Pump Failure on V8's! Important!

[Billynath1988]

New thread with Big update.

2005 4Runner V8 with 105k.

Background:
About a week ago or so, I started up my truck in the morning and immediately heard a loud ( Shop Vac sounding) buzzing type noise from under the hood that I had never heard before on any vehicle. I froze in confusion trying to listen for what the hell it was. By the time I opened my door to get out and look under neath the noise stopped and everything was fine. Normal idle, no check engine light. Nothing. So I drove cautiously and everything was fine. Through out that day I turned off and started my truck up multiple times with the noise never showing its face again.

Day 2: First start in the morning and the same thing happens. Same noise.
I immediately pop the hood and find the noise coming from lower passenger side of the block. but still cannot pinpoint exact location.

Video of my truck with the noise
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2htXBZaPd_vbnotNHBZSkMxaVk/edit?pli=1


Day 3: Post on here and some facebook groups. with help from fellow members and experienced people. I find this: Nothing happens the rest of the day on any other start up except the first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Zoc2eqxqo


Day 4: Same Thing EXCEPT. check engine light and this code. P1445
P1445 code | IH8MUD Forum


WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IF YOU EXPERIENCE THIS PROBLEM:

I went to my local Toyota dealer to discuss the matter only to leave frustrated because they had no idea what I was saying. I don't understand why you put people in service departments that don't know anything about how a car works.

on the way out a mechanic who overheard me gave me THIS NUMBER:

Toyota Customer assistance : 1-800-331-4331 <--- If you have a v8 Call IT and tell them you have this problem!

The Customer Service rep acknowledged that Tundra's and Sequoia's with the V8 have the exact same defective part as us. And on those vehicles Toyota was willing to extend the warranty to 150k and either repair or reimburse previously repaired trucks.

She went on to explain that they do have quite a few documented cases but not enough to make Toyota take the next step and extend the warranty on 4runners to Replace or reimburse for work done on this part.

In short: If you have a V8 Call- Call even if its not broken YET, for you in the future and Call for all your fellow 4 runner friends with V8's who need every single one to be a documented case to get this fixed. Its over 3 grand out of pocket if its not covered.

If you pay or have paid to have it fixed. KEEP ALL RECEIPTS.
If you paid, had it fixed and don't own it anymore but can prove you paid to fix it. and they extend the warranty they WILL reimburse you.

*If you didnt fix it yet, call, call and call some more. If they extend warranty, the total cost of approx 3 grand will be covered by toyota.

Phone number is- 1800-332-4331
Tell them you heard it from Reference number # 140-722-0993

 

[Atlanta_man]

Good advice - there is a thread on here somewhere where a guy was selling a black box to fool the ECM after you disconnect this piece of junk. The timing logic and temperature sensor simulation are not trivial.

Don't know if this guy is still selling it. It was expensive for what it is but way better than the alternative.

 

[Billynath1988]

Well, I may never buy another Toyota again, unless they figure out a way to resolve this issue. Good luck to everyone who currently owns them. I did like mine, until this happened and how it was handled.
Just got off the phone with Toyota corporate for the 5th time this week. Spoke to a supervisor for an hour regarding the-
Failure of the Secondary Emissions Air Pump System and air pump valves in their 4.7L V8 engine.
Toyota Warranties Air Pump System - Reimbursement Available | Tundra Headquarters Blog
After arguing back and forth, and the guy literally telling me "we have documented cases on this issue and acknowledge there is a defect but we cannot offer a warranty extension on your vehicle at this time."
The conversation ended with this:
me: So your telling me, that Everyone who owns a toyota with the 4.7L V8, that has the exact same failed system, with the same defective components, that your company has acknowledged and extended assistance for on 2 other models, has to either come up with 4000 dollars or stop driving the vehicle because it either doesn't go over 45mph anymore and they now violate federal emission standards and will not pass emissions testing in my state.
Toyota: ( 20 second pause) Yes sir, the warranty only covers the tundra and sequoia. Although you have the same system we do not cover your vehicle at this time.
me: I want you to know that I am going to explain to the forums and groups i'm affiliated with that may number in hundreds, maybe thousands of people who are enthusiasts and take pride in owning your companies products that you market for being long lasting, reliable vehicles, may at some point have to shell out 4 grand to a dealer in order to pass emissions inspection and continue driving their trucks.
Toyota: unfortunately that is the reality at this time. When toyota feels it has enough complaints in a 90 day period they will contact the NHTSA and issue a TSB or a Recall. Unfortunately that hasn't happened for the 4runner specifically and we will not offer assistance for your vehicle.
me: but its the same exact defective part, that YOU deemed was defective from the factory.
toyota: Yes sir, please have your local toyota dealer repair your vehicle so you can go back to enjoying your truck.
Me: thats 4 grand..
toyota: yes sir.
https://www.facebook.com/toyota/posts/10151251406334201
How did this guy get his fixed? ^^^^
So i posted on toyota's facebook... they deleted it and everyone above me with the same problem from me to a year ago.

Phone number is- 1800-332-4331
Tell them you heard it from Reference number # 140-722-0993

 

[HokieRunner]

Sorry to hear that's how toyota is choosing to handle it. I'm in the same boat and did the bypass. So far it has served me well in passing emissions, etc. Toyota should definitely own up and fix this under warranty but in the meantime I'd recommend you do the bypass so things don't get to a stage where you can't just bypass the system. The issue can get worse to where you can't reset the code and then you'll get be forced to replace the components.

In the end it's a poorly designed system placed in an inaccessible location and given the number of VVt-i v8 4runners that are out there, I doubt they'll hit their required target in a 90 day window. I'll call in and do my part but it's not promising.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I would be curious if you went to perhaps the NHTSA and tried to speak to them about the obvious lapse in corrective action.

You may be able to get their ear with the fact that Toyota is acknowledging that the issue is the same in 4Runners, has documented cases, and is refusing to extend the same repair they provide for the Tundra and Sequoia despite being aware of a faulty design. It all sounds pretty incriminating to me and combined with a possible petition it might be enough to have the government lean on Toyota to correct the issue.

 

[Billynath1988]

Its actually already at the point I cant get rid of the codes.. I had to clear the code disconnect the battery and unplug the air pump.. then hook the bat up and start it up just to get it out of limp mode.. then i pluged it back in and it still makes noise and im sure its only a matter of time but the pump codes havent come back just some other codes that dont even make sense for whats going on..

2 weeks ago my truck ran as good as it would have new.. and now ive had 7 CELS in 2 days.. And im assuming they are all someone connected.

Check out this thread--
https://www.facebook.com/toyota/posts/10151251406334201

He posted publicly to toyota's facebook and ended up getting it fixed. I posted under that thread along with hundreds of other people with runners and the same problem.. and they deleted my post and many others up back over a year

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Its actually already at the point I cant get rid of the codes.. I had to clear the code disconnect the battery and unplug the air pump.. then hook the bat up and start it up just to get it out of limp mode.. then i pluged it back in and it still makes noise and im sure its only a matter of time but the pump codes havent come back just some other codes that dont even make sense for whats going on..

2 weeks ago my truck ran as good as it would have new.. and now ive had 7 CELS in 2 days.. And im assuming they are all someone connected.

Check out this thread--
https://www.facebook.com/toyota/posts/10151251406334201

He posted publicly to toyota's facebook and ended up getting it fixed. I posted under that thread along with hundreds of other people with runners and the same problem.. and they deleted my post and many others up back over a year

Time to start bugging the NHTSA, EPA, and perhaps even other organizations that have enough clout to pressure Toyota to stop covering up/avoiding the fix. Did you record your phone calls?

 

[Billynath1988]

Unfortunately I didn't record them.. but I have names.. and they claim to have recorded them. " for quality assurance" lol

I have an appointment on monday at another local dealer thought a guy that I think is somewhere on this forum but IDK his forum name.. he is going to see if they can work something out.. I will report back..

 

[Billynath1988]

And another..

https://www.facebook.com/toyota/posts/10151265142419201

 

[OzarkRunner]

OP - Thanks for the info; definitely going to save this thread. The service records indicate that mine was replaced in 2009 at approximately 15k miles (along with the air pump driver). I've read threads regarding this issue before, but it has been a while.

BlackWorksInc - Since I'm not exactly mechanically inclined, can you help me understand what this pump is and its function?

 

[HokieRunner]

OP - Thanks for the info; definitely going to save this thread. The service records indicate that mine was replaced in 2009 at approximately 15k miles (along with the air pump driver). I've read threads regarding this issue before, but it has been a while.

BlackWorksInc - Since I'm not exactly mechanically inclined, can you help me understand what this pump is and its function?

This is an overview of what they are: Secondary air injection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They're also known as smog pumps.

Here's a quick rundown of the failure and how they function along w/ potential fixes:

The following is copied from the AIP bypass page on Tundra solutions forum:

SAS Failure:
If you are not familiar with the Air Induction Pump Or Secondary Exhaust Valve problems on the Gen. 1a and Gen. 2 Tundras consider yourself lucky.
Although Toyota extended the warranty on the 2nd Gen tundras to cover replacement or repair of the system plenty of us have been shafted and stuck with only 2 options to remedy the problem: pay several thousand dollars to replace/repair the AIP secondary emission system or go to lengths to bypass and eliminate the system all together. The AIP system simply pumps air into the exhaust on startup to help get the catalytic converters up to operating temperature faster and thus improve emissions. It does not have any affect on performance unless the system fails. Two modes of failure are common. The air induction pump fails or the exhaust valves get stuck open or closed. I encountered a pump failure on my 05' Tundra DC XSP a couple of months ago, since it is not covered by warranty and the quote I received from my Toyota dealer was $3400 to replace the system I began working on an engineered solution to disable or bypass the system. Disconnecting the pump will disable the system but cause its own engine code. If your exhaust valves are stuck or leaking you will also need to install exhaust block off plates to prevent exhaust from flowing back into the system and causing "limp mode" even if the system is bypassed.

 

[Billynath1988]

OP - Thanks for the info; definitely going to save this thread. The service records indicate that mine was replaced in 2009 at approximately 15k miles (along with the air pump driver). I've read threads regarding this issue before, but it has been a while.

BlackWorksInc - Since I'm not exactly mechanically inclined, can you help me understand what this pump is and its function?

Here is an assortment of links ive found regarding the issue:

Tundra and Sequoia $4000 Air Injection System Problem | Tundra Headquarters Blog

Toyota Warranties Air Pump System - Reimbursement Available | Tundra Headquarters Blog

Any one have problems with their Secondary Air Injection System (Emissions) before?

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/problems-warranty-issues/66938-air-injection-system.html

https://www.facebook.com/toyota/posts/10151251406334201

https://www.facebook.com/toyota/posts/10151265142419201

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/problems-warranty-issues/80148-air-switching-valve.html

* http://www.autosafety.org/sites/default/files/imce_staff_uploads/T-SB-0160-11.pdf

http://www.villagetoyotaparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=346563&ukey_product=2024136

 

[dinnertime]

You have a 9 year old truck and you experience a problem, now you want it covered under warranty when it expired 4 years and who knows how many miles ago?!? When they don't you say," I will never buy a Toyota product again", even though you like it, until the possibility that you had to put money into it. Unless of course they give you something for free LOL.

This is borderline crazy, put any other product into the place of your 4runner. Not many companies are going to willingly replace something 4 YEARS outside of the original warranty period.


Listen, most of the times this is an easy fix, and can be done in a few hours with hand tools for NO money 90% of the time.



The inlet pipe for the air pump has a foam filter, which over time with engine heat cycles,starts to deteriorate. When it does it gets sucked into the pump (occasionally damaging some fins in the pump, generally not enough damage to cause the pump to not work), and push the little bits of chopped foam straight into the valves. This causes them to stick.

Snatch off the intake, remove the foam filter, and blow out the pump with compressed air. Remove the valves and use a power probe (or a jumper wire from a 12v source, IE your battery) to actuate the valves and remove any pieces of foam stuck. Then reassemble and you're done. Iv done this to countless tundra's and 4runners and have had VERY few need actual parts replacement, although occasionally it is necessary.


Also, LOL @ responses to get the government involved.


Not to nitpick, but the warranty enhancement isn't because of defective airpumps. Its root cause is water intrusion leading to parts failure.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

You have a 9 year old truck and you experience a problem, now you want it covered under warranty when it expired 4 years and who knows how many miles ago?!? When they don't you say," I will never buy a Toyota product again", even though you like it, until the possibility that you had to put money into it. Unless of course they give you something for free LOL.

This is borderline crazy, put any other product into the place of your 4runner. Not many companies are going to willingly replace something 4 YEARS outside of the original warranty period.


Listen, most of the times this is an easy fix, and can be done in a few hours with hand tools for NO money 90% of the time.



The inlet pipe for the air pump has a foam filter, which over time with engine heat cycles,starts to deteriorate. When it does it gets sucked into the pump (occasionally damaging some fins in the pump, generally not enough damage to cause the pump to not work), and push the little bits of chopped foam straight into the valves. This causes them to stick.

Snatch off the intake, remove the foam filter, and blow out the pump with compressed air. Remove the valves and use a power probe (or a jumper wire from a 12v source, IE your battery) to actuate the valves and remove any pieces of foam stuck. Then reassemble and you're done. Iv done this to countless tundra's and 4runners and have had VERY few need actual parts replacement, although occasionally it is necessary.


Also, LOL @ responses to get the government involved.

While I agree with your point for the most part, you missed the point that Toyota warranties the Tundra and Sequoia for issues related to a poor design that promotes water damage and failure in the SAP. This is mainly what we were talking about getting other organizations involved on. Because Toyota failed to extend their TSB properly to include the other vehicles that use the same issue despite having many cases to support such an action (keep in mind that the 4Runner was always a low production vehicle in comparison to the Tundra/Sequoia and the V8 models were even more uncommon, which would naturally mean less reported cases in comparison.)

It does not matter whether its a 4Runner, Tundra, Sequoia, GX470, LX470, ect. the issue is inherent in the design of the pumps and Toyota acknowledged that it was a faulty part; they just wanted to sneak one past the owners of other 2UZ-FE equipped vehicles.

Another example is the TSB involving "Driveline Thumping/Clunking." The Lexus GX470 had a TSB covering the driveshaft with an extended warranty almost a year or two after the release of the GX470 in '03. Toyota did not release a TSB/extended warranty on the 4Runner until 2012, despite that driveline being the exact same part; when they did release the TSB finally the extended warranty only covered only about '07+ models because they worded a 5yr/50k extended warranty clause into it from the date of the TSB issue (which was sometime in the summer of 2012.) Keep in mind the 4th Gen V8 4Runner was produced from '03-'08; not only did Toyota drag their feet on a TSB/Extended Warranty on the exact same part on the GX470 over five years earlier, when they finally did release the TSB it automatically excluded about half the affected vehicles because they took so long.

~

All that being said, your suggested fix sounds perfectly reasonable and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case for some of these pumps. We have replaced almost all of the Secondary Air Pumps that come in on Tundras & Sequoias under the TSB, we haven't seen a 2UZ-FE 4Runner yet with the issue.

 

[Billynath1988]

Thank you Blackworksinc for clarifying that.

Im not looking for a handout or trying to get something for free. The fact is this is the same defective system used in several vehicles over the course of a several years. If toyota had chose to do nothing for anyone, on any vehicle and not acknowledge a flawed design then so be it. And this would be nothing more then a discussion about how us forum members deal with this issue ourselves.
We all know about many other quirks with these vehicles ( stuck calipers, cracked manifolds, dashes, ect..) and thats why this forum is here, to help eachother out with 4runner specific issues.

However... once toyota went ahead with extending warranties and admitting their design flaw in the system that is used in these vehicles, Then reimburseing and repairing vehicles ( yes some of them are 4runners).. then it is only right to extend that to everyone affected by the same problem. Same way GM is getting called out for their ignitions that were used in many different cars for many years. They all need to be taken care of. Not just a select few.

Like blackworksinc said... same as the driveline TSB. They are only withholding assistance to people with 4runners because they can. because they know they can save money taking things on a case by case basis.


You on and I both know 9 years and 100k on these trucks when maintained is just barely breaking in. Im sure your method of doing the fix for this problem works. but not everyone is a toyota mechanic with access to tools or any other variety of factors that would limit someone from doing this job on their own.

 

[Jarhead767]

This is the exact reason I dumped my 07 Tundra 4.7. I now have an 07 4Runner Sport with a V6 and consider it to be the best vehicle i have ever owned. If I ever have a need for a pick up again I will buy a Ford F-150 ... hands down.

 

[Billynath1988]

On the lift at the dealer now... Details and update to follow this evening..

 

[txclimber]

Same song, different verse:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/160676-p2440-fing-pump.html

There's my story and the fix I did. Same as lot's of others here.

 

[Billynath1988]

Same song, different verse:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/160676-p2440-fing-pump.html

There's my story and the fix I did. Same as lot's of others here.

Wow.. I just read that whole thread and for now ill just say THANK YOU. Definitely clarified alot for me and at the same time gave me hope!

before I continue, I hope by now everything has turned out better for your family.

At this point im working with a guy from the 3rd gen section who is a service advisor at a local toyota dealership. I had the same exact "stuck open code" and Limp mode issue on my truck last week as you did, The second that occurred I disconnected the battery and waited about an hour before I reconnected it. After I reconnected it I cleared the codes and it went back to normal. And the Limp mode or any AIP codes for that matter haven't been back. HOWEVER, I still do have that extremely loud noise on cold starts. and its been getting louder.

Of course when I got to the dealer, the truck is hot so they could not replicate the noise. and the only the code they pulled was for a camshaft position sensor. So im fixing that now, and setting up a day asap to leave it over night so they can hear it themselves.

If nothing comes of all of this and toyota doesn't help me out. Then I will obviously be forced to do the repair you made which does look great! and glad to hear its still working as intended.

My question for you is, HOW do I get that kit you got? and how much? I guess you didnt replace the pumps? only did the block off and the relay?

 

[nevada]

You have a 9 year old truck and you experience a problem, now you want it covered under warranty when it expired 4 years and who knows how many miles ago?!? When they don't you say," I will never buy a Toyota product again", even though you like it, until the possibility that you had to put money into it. Unless of course they give you something for free LOL.

This is borderline crazy, put any other product into the place of your 4runner. Not many companies are going to willingly replace something 4 YEARS outside of the original warranty period.


Listen, most of the times this is an easy fix, and can be done in a few hours with hand tools for NO money 90% of the time.



The inlet pipe for the air pump has a foam filter, which over time with engine heat cycles,starts to deteriorate. When it does it gets sucked into the pump (occasionally damaging some fins in the pump, generally not enough damage to cause the pump to not work), and push the little bits of chopped foam straight into the valves. This causes them to stick.

Snatch off the intake, remove the foam filter, and blow out the pump with compressed air. Remove the valves and use a power probe (or a jumper wire from a 12v source, IE your battery) to actuate the valves and remove any pieces of foam stuck. Then reassemble and you're done. Iv done this to countless tundra's and 4runners and have had VERY few need actual parts replacement, although occasionally it is necessary.


Also, LOL @ responses to get the government involved.


Not to nitpick, but the warranty enhancement isn't because of defective airpumps. Its root cause is water intrusion leading to parts failure.

is it that far out of warranty, or at all?

its considered emissions equipment correct? that carries a different, separate warranty. much longer. right? im positive I read something about that. maybe its in my owners packet.