Serious Snow Issues 2006 Sport Edition V8 4x4

[aeanderson87]

Having some serious issues here with traction, any help would be appreciated. This is my first winter with the 4Runner and I am hoping we can reach a solution here. I just got stuck in about 6-8 inches and my 4runner was doing little to assist the issue. Its in 4H, I've tried turning the center differential lock switch to turn the VSC off. The VSC TRAC warning light comes on with the slip indicator light. I'm noticing that the acceleration is limited due to some traction or stability control setting.


I'm starting to miss that 98 Pathfinder I had, as it ripped through absolutely ANYTHING. I expected the same from this 06 Runner, as this snow shouldn't be a challenge!

Please help. Thanks

 

[jimmied]

I was having same issue and also had 98 pathfinder. I just ran it recently with 4h with center locked. It was much better.

But I do agree, initial impressions are path was greater in snow.

 

[YotaDriver]

When you don't have the center differential locked the traction control will kick in automatically when your rig detects wheel spin. In my experience, when this happens you basically lose throttle control because the VSC wants to minimize wheel spin by keeping the RPM's low and applying the brakes on whichever wheel starts spinning.

When the center differential is locked, however, the VSC is disabled which lets you to add more throttle so that you can more or less power through and out of tricky situations. In fact, yesterday I was pushing my way through more than two feet of snow and there were a few times when I got a little bogged down and had to rock back and forth to get moving again. When I had the center diff locked I could race the engine more, regardless of wheel spin. When it was unlocked, I'd hear the clicking and buzzing noises associated with the traction control and the system kept the RPM's low.

What kind of tires do you have, and do they still have a good amount of tread left? Either way, you really shouldn't be getting stuck in 8" of snow...hell, you shouldn't be getting stuck in less than 18" of snow, I would think.

 

[CAN-03runner]

Having some serious issues here with traction, any help would be appreciated. This is my first winter with the 4Runner and I am hoping we can reach a solution here. I just got stuck in about 6-8 inches and my 4runner was doing little to assist the issue. Its in 4H, I've tried turning the center differential lock switch to turn the VSC off.

Please help. Thanks

The center lock switch is a push button to the left of steering wheel. The dial you turn is to go from 4hi to 4lo. I say this because you state turning the center diff lock button.

 

[Jeff S.]

Having some serious issues here with traction, any help would be appreciated. This is my first winter with the 4Runner and I am hoping we can reach a solution here. I just got stuck in about 6-8 inches and my 4runner was doing little to assist the issue. Its in 4H, I've tried turning the center differential lock switch to turn the VSC off. The VSC TRAC warning light comes on with the slip indicator light. I'm noticing that the acceleration is limited due to some traction or stability control setting.


I'm starting to miss that 98 Pathfinder I had, as it ripped through absolutely ANYTHING. I expected the same from this 06 Runner, as this snow shouldn't be a challenge!

Please help. Thanks

Your (previous) 1998 Pathfinder and (current) 2006 4Runner have different types of 4WD systems. In your Pathfinder's owner manual, you will find a section that tells you not to drive the Pathfinder in 4WD on dry roads or over 50 MPH. This is because your Pathfinder only has two differentials: a front and rear. If you've ever driven the Pathfinder on dry pavement in 4WD, then you already know the sensation of scrubbing the tires, and feeling of driveline tension.

Your 4Runner has three differentials: a front, a center, and a rear. When you put your 4unner in 4WD by turning the dial from "2H" to "4H," you are leaving all three differentials "open." The benefit of this mode is the fact that you can drive your 4Runner in "4H" all day, any day (regardless of weather conditions) on all road surfaces. You can drive as fast as you want, and turn the steering wheel sharply without scrubbing the tires. It's essentially AWD in this mode. This may seem very strange if you're used to conventional 4X4 systems such as your Parhfinder. I, for example, leave my 4Runner in 4H pretty much all winter, and will put in in 4H even in slight rain in the summer.

The downside of 4H, as you've discovered, is that slipping tires rob traction due to the three open differentials. You can get stuck with just one tire spinning.

When you "lock" the center differential (via the button to the left of the steering wheel) in your 4Runner, you are bypassing the center diff, and thus "4HL" (locked) is the same type of 4X4 as your Pathfinder in 4WD. If you drive your 4Runner in "4HL" on dry pavement, you'll get the same binding sensation that you felt driving your Pathfinder on dry pavement.

With the center locked, your traction will be enhanced because electronic nannies interfere less (there are electronic nannies in the AWD mode that are disabled once the center diff is locked), but moreso because there is one less differential redirecting (robbing) torque to slipping tires. If you want your 4Runner to handle and feel like the Pathfinder, lock that puppy!


Note: Just as you can rotate the dial from 2H to 4H on the fly (with the vehicle in motion), you can lock and unlock the center diff on the fly. You have to be in 4H or 4L (you have to be in 4WD) to lock the center diff. The solid green "4 tire symbol" light is on when your truck is in 4H. When you push the center differential lock button, an amber/yellow light (4 tire symbol with an "x" between the axels) will flash and then turn solid once the center diff is locked, and an amber/yellow "VSC off" light will also appear.

 

[CAN-03runner]

One thing to keep in mind, when you do get it into 4x4 center locked, atrac activates. Or at least on my 2003 it does. Newer ones might have a button...?

That is your traction control. It will make clicking noises. Might sound weird at first, and you may have the reflex to take your foot off the gas. Get used to that sound so you dont relex like that and instead keep giving gas. Atrac needs around 2000 rpm before it kicks in. So while not idle...you dont need to be redlining to get it to work on the snow.

But 6-8 inches. That's your ground clearance. You should not even know there is snow, you're driving right over it even with 4x4 locked.

What tires do you have, and what condition are they in? That could be the issue too.

 

[Burt]

I think that ATRAC is what most people find limiting when in snow conditions. I think if you press and hold the VSC button for 3 seconds, it disables the ATRAC.
Feel free to correct me if I got this mixed up.

 

[4RunnerFan]

This has been a very informative thread; thanks! Regarding the OP's problem, I too wonder about what tires are on the vehicle and their wear condition.

 

[MikeInNH]

I too am a past owner of a 98 Pathfinder. Gave it to my daughter for college when it had over 300k miles on it. She went through her last 3 years at MIT and then 2 years of graduate school at Harvard before she sold it to her ex-boyfriend. Last I knew it was approaching 500k miles.

In your Pathfinder's owner manual, you will find a section that tells you not to drive the Pathfinder in 4WD on dry roads or over 50 MPH.

It actually says NOT to drive on dry pavement in 4wd at all. And you can shift into 4wd on slippery conditions up to 50mph.

A true 4wd system you do NOT want to run in 4wd on dry pavement. You'll get what's known as 4wd lockup. You can do serious damage to a transfercase if you continue to drive like this.

Not sure about the V8...but the V6 in 4wd-hi is like an AWD system. Decent in the snow..but not very good for deep unplowed roads which I drove through on Friday night. When you lock the center diff...it's like a true 4wd system.

So all-in-all I think the 4runner is a more versatile (better) system.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

The center lock switch is a push button to the left of steering wheel. The dial you turn is to go from 4hi to 4lo. I say this because you state turning the center diff lock button.

Do I treat driving with the diff lock enabled just as I would a "regular" 4x4 pickup? That is, be a bit cautious of sharper turns on high traction surfaces, but it can still be driven rather "normally"? Or it is hyper sensitive to anything but straight line roads and low traction?

Not a big fan of the amount of power cut when trying to get out of a slippery situation. Give it more gas, more slip = less power...but I do always pull through!

 

[Aquabear]

To the OP,
Originally my 4R with stock tires- Dumlops I think. Terrible waste of rubber if you ask me, even worse as they wear less tread, esp in snow. When I switched tires- stock size but AT's(All Terrain)- that's when the 4R shined! It almost was like a different truck or what the 4R should have come with.

 

[Climb14er]

Your (previous) 1998 Pathfinder and (current) 2006 4Runner have different types of 4WD systems. In your Pathfinder's owner manual, you will find a section that tells you not to drive the Pathfinder in 4WD on dry roads or over 50 MPH. This is because your Pathfinder only has two differentials: a front and rear. If you've ever driven the Pathfinder on dry pavement in 4WD, then you already know the sensation of scrubbing the tires, and feeling of driveline tension.

Your 4Runner has three differentials: a front, a center, and a rear. When you put your 4unner in 4WD by turning the dial from "2H" to "4H," you are leaving all three differentials "open." The benefit of this mode is the fact that you can drive your 4Runner in "4H" all day, any day (regardless of weather conditions) on all road surfaces. You can drive as fast as you want, and turn the steering wheel sharply without scrubbing the tires. It's essentially AWD in this mode. This may seem very strange if you're used to conventional 4X4 systems such as your Parhfinder. I, for example, leave my 4Runner in 4H pretty much all winter, and will put in in 4H even in slight rain in the summer.

The downside of 4H, as you've discovered, is that slipping tires rob traction due to the three open differentials. You can get stuck with just one tire spinning.

When you "lock" the center differential (via the button to the left of the steering wheel) in your 4Runner, you are bypassing the center diff, and thus "4HL" (locked) is the same type of 4X4 as your Pathfinder in 4WD. If you drive your 4Runner in "4HL" on dry pavement, you'll get the same binding sensation that you felt driving your Pathfinder on dry pavement.

With the center locked, your traction will be enhanced because electronic nannies interfere less (there are electronic nannies in the AWD mode that are disabled once the center diff is locked), but moreso because there is one less differential redirecting (robbing) torque to slipping tires. If you want your 4Runner to handle and feel like the Pathfinder, lock that puppy!


Note: Just as you can rotate the dial from 2H to 4H on the fly (with the vehicle in motion), you can lock and unlock the center diff on the fly. You have to be in 4H or 4L (you have to be in 4WD) to lock the center diff. The solid green "4 tire symbol" light is on when your truck is in 4H. When you push the center differential lock button, an amber/yellow light (4 tire symbol with an "x" between the axels) will flash and then turn solid once the center diff is locked, and an amber/yellow "VSC off" light will also appear.

The OP has a V8 or so he says. There's NO 2H. He's in 4H-AWD all the time.

When I hit the bigger snow in my V8, I usually have no problem with the regular 4H (AWD) setting.

If the traction control kicks in too much, I lock the center differential and now I have 4WD. But I only drive this way on wet or snowy roads. It does not like or should be driven on dry roads this way.

The 4H-AWD 'normal' setting on the V8 is excellent for most driving in snows. I wish I had a deactivate setting/button for VSC/Traction control.

 

[absolute yota]

snow traction

I wish I had some pictures from this weekends storm, I did a lot of driving in both the 2005 4runner and my 2012 tundra. The runner came out first, and I went around yanking my friends and fam out of the snow banks . In 4 hi unlocked it handled all of the horrible road conditions and actually worked rather well even in the deep snow. We got 30 inches of powder where i live in ct so i didnt go through that but in a windswept parking lot I plowed through almost 2 feet . I got stuck in 4 hi unlocked but as soon as i backed up and locked the center i had no problem getting through. My runner does not cut back the throttle or apply brakes when the center is locked. Mt truck is a V6 The V8 is different as far as I know.

My truck is also lifted 4 inches with 33 inch ATs , but my skids and diffs are still only so far off the ground and I def left a deep trench where i drove . I would say that if there is absolutley no traction and its ice under the snow no amount of 4 wheel drive will help you. When it was still stock on the crappy Dunlops I did trails in 2 feet of snow. Its all about the surface condition.

The tundra operates like a normal 4 wheel drive as in loose surface only. It is a beast in the snow but having to switch it off for plowed road or in anticipation of a well salted corner was lame, and the trac control still operates in 4wd unles you stop , put it in neutral and hold the trac button for 3 seconds. This disables everything as far as throttle cut back and auto braking. Having it on was good on the road because it limits the sliding in the rear .the runners open center system was much more unobtrusive and did its own thing rather well. I only wish I could disable the 4runners trac control in 2wd like I can in the tundra so I can slide around if I want too. I was doing donuts in my 4 door longbed tundra but I would have rather been in the runner.

 

[CAN-03runner]

Do I treat driving with the diff lock enabled just as I would a "regular" 4x4 pickup? That is, be a bit cautious of sharper turns on high traction surfaces, but it can still be driven rather "normally"? Or it is hyper sensitive to anything but straight line roads and low traction?

Not a big fan of the amount of power cut when trying to get out of a slippery situation. Give it more gas, more slip = less power...but I do always pull through!

Yes, Center Diff Lock enabled is like driving in a regular 4x4 pickup or suv.

I do wish it could read my mind and see what I see and know when I'm only trying to get out of a plowed in parking spot and not spinning totally out of control at an intersection...but I can tell it that by pressing the center diff lock button. That's the wonderfull thing with the 4Runner. You can get in and out of AWD and 4x4 with a push of a button while still driving forward or reverse.

90% of the time I don't hear anything from the VSC. 99% of the time when it does kick in, I did it on purpose to slide into a curve by giving too much gas and so I expected all the beeps. So I would say practice doing that. Get used to the beeps and clicks, so that when it does happen during the 1% of the time, you won't be surprised. I really think a big part of it, is training your brain not to instinctively take your foot off the gas, but instead keep it pressed so the system can still send power to where it is needed, and then as soon as it corrected you take off quickly again. I did this over and over again. And it mostly doesn't phase me anymore.

I use the diff lock at least once a day. Every moring when I get out of my driveway. My driveway is steep incline into the garage, and covered with a car shelter. All the snow built up under the truck and on the tires falls to the ground and ices up. 4hi has wheel spin, 4hi locked no wheel spin and barely any gas. I do it mainly because I don't want to spin the tires on my pavement, plus the spinning tires polish the ice making it worse.

 

[CAN-03runner]

To the OP,
Originally my 4R with stock tires- Dumlops I think. Terrible waste of rubber if you ask me, even worse as they wear less tread, esp in snow. When I switched tires- stock size but AT's(All Terrain)- that's when the 4R shined! It almost was like a different truck or what the 4R should have come with.

Dunflops. So when I picked up my 4runner off the dealer lot, I almost totalled it in the first 45 seconds. It was winter, and super cold. The lot exit sloped down to the street. I applied the brakes and slid all the way down into the street in my frozen hard like a hockey puck dunflops just as a car had passed and the next car managed to swirve into the next lane to miss me. I drove it right to my tire dealer to order my yokohama geolander winter tires.

 

[CAN-03runner]

The OP has a V8 or so he says. There's NO 2H. He's in 4H-AWD all the time.

When I hit the bigger snow in my V8, I usually have no problem with the regular 4H (AWD) setting.

If the traction control kicks in too much, I lock the center differential and now I have 4WD. But I only drive this way on wet or snowy roads. It does not like or should be driven on dry roads this way.

The 4H-AWD 'normal' setting on the V8 is excellent for most driving in snows. I wish I had a deactivate setting/button for VSC/Traction control.

Same here 4hi awd works for almost everything. You could do the VSC mod. Or pull the abs cable from the brake master cylinder to see what it's like. I much more prefer the smooth controled low rpm of diff lock/atrac than just 4hi AWD for the deep stuff with VSC off. But knowing full well that VSC is off, and you take that into account, I think the Torsen center diff probably is getting a better workout. So it gives a more sporty feel.

 

[Fleethammer]

Sounds like tires. Mine does quite well, even with ok tires on it, so if you are having an issue in 6-8 inches of snow, that's not good. What tires are on it? Also, to limit the nannies, do the VSC off mod like others have suggested. It's simple to do, and the OEM VSC switch is plug and play on V8s because they came with the wiring behind the dash. I don't lock the center diff at all, even with deep snow on-road driving.

 

[JB.]

I've tried turning the center differential lock switch to turn the VSC off. The VSC TRAC warning light comes on with the slip indicator light. I'm noticing that the acceleration is limited due to some traction or stability control setting.

It doesn't sound like the center diff is locking. The picture of the 4 wheels should go solid along with a VSC OFF light.

 

[M1911]

There is a reason I put snow tires on my 4Runner in the winter.

 

[JB.]

Do I treat driving with the diff lock enabled just as I would a "regular" 4x4 pickup? That is, be a bit cautious of sharper turns on high traction surfaces, but it can still be driven rather "normally"? Or it is hyper sensitive to anything but straight line roads and low traction?

Yes, treat it like standard 4wd and I agree with your level of caution. The range of opinion about that is quite broad, though. Traditionally, regarding pavement, in this forum it's been a simple rule, "don't do it" which is the reason I made this thread.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...pavement-center-diff-lock-vsc-off-switch.html