Serious Snow Issues 2006 Sport Edition V8 4x4

[Jeff S.]

I too am a past owner of a 98 Pathfinder. Gave it to my daughter for college when it had over 300k miles on it. She went through her last 3 years at MIT and then 2 years of graduate school at Harvard before she sold it to her ex-boyfriend. Last I knew it was approaching 500k miles.



It actually says NOT to drive on dry pavement in 4wd at all. And you can shift into 4wd on slippery conditions up to 50mph.

A true 4wd system you do NOT want to run in 4wd on dry pavement. You'll get what's known as 4wd lockup. You can do serious damage to a transfercase if you continue to drive like this.

Not sure about the V8...but the V6 in 4wd-hi is like an AWD system. Decent in the snow..but not very good for deep unplowed roads which I drove through on Friday night. When you lock the center diff...it's like a true 4wd system.

So all-in-all I think the 4runner is a more versatile (better) system.

Mike, I'm a little confused by your post. Maybe I wasn't clear, or perhaps you misread what I wrote, but the gest of my post was precisely what you're saying. The quote from my post even explains that the 1998 Pathfinder Owner's manual says not to use 4WD on dry pavement.

 

[me_rikey]

Sounds like tires. Mine does quite well, even with ok tires on it, so if you are having an issue in 6-8 inches of snow, that's not good. What tires are on it? Also, to limit the nannies, do the VSC off mod like others have suggested. It's simple to do, and the OEM VSC switch is plug and play on V8s because they came with the wiring behind the dash. I don't lock the center diff at all, even with deep snow on-road driving.

Are you sure that the V8s have the wiring and harness behind the dash? Last I knew the VSC off mod for 4runners that came from the factory without that ability, the mod to do VSC off was not plug-in-play.

 

[Dexter Morgan]

Mike, I'm a little confused by your post. Maybe I wasn't clear, or perhaps you misread what I wrote, but the gest of my post was precisely what you're saying. The quote from my post even explains that the 1998 Pathfinder Owner's manual says not to use 4WD on dry pavement.

The operative word in the pathfinder manual is "use". How do you define that? I regularly engaged 4wd in my Tundra on dry pavement only in a straight line to get some oil through the front diff about once a month. However, I wouldn't do it on anything more than a very slight turn.

Given the effort to keep an owner's manual "simple", they probably wouldn't use the definition I used above for fear of completely confusing soccer mom or non car guy dad.

Bottom line is if you know a thing or two about 4wd other than the fact that all tires spin, it is completely safe to use it on dry pavement IN A STRAIGHT LINE.

 

[Fleethammer]

Are you sure that the V8s have the wiring and harness behind the dash? Last I knew the VSC off mod for 4runners that came from the factory without that ability, the mod to do VSC off was not plug-in-play.

Yes, definitely. I did the mod a few weeks ago according to this thread and it works perfectly:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/perfo...-more/41357-vsc-off-atrac-mod-complete-3.html

SSt4r's post midway down the page explains it. The mod is very easy to do. It took me longer to read his directions and make sure I knew what I was doing than to actually splice, solder and heat shrink the wires! I bought the switch from my local dealer and it plugs right in. Maybe 15 minutes tops.

 

[Jeff S.]

The OP has a V8 or so he says. There's NO 2H. He's in 4H-AWD all the time.

When I hit the bigger snow in my V8, I usually have no problem with the regular 4H (AWD) setting.

If the traction control kicks in too much, I lock the center differential and now I have 4WD. But I only drive this way on wet or snowy roads. It does not like or should be driven on dry roads this way.

The 4H-AWD 'normal' setting on the V8 is excellent for most driving in snows. I wish I had a deactivate setting/button for VSC/Traction control.

Thanks for catching that; I missed the fact that he has a V8, even though it's right there in the title.

The information is still pertinent. A V8 is always in H4, but the three differentials are still open until the center is locked. It's the same system as the V6, albeit without the option of 2H.

The OP was feeling dissatisfied with the 4Runner's traction capabilities compared to his previous Pathfinder, so I think it's important to explain the versatility of the 4Runners 4X4 system.

Everybody is claiming that their 4Runner in 4H (unlocked) does just fine in snowy conditions. Everything else being equal (tires, clearance, and so forth), an AWD vehicle with three open differentials will have better traction than a front wheel drive vehicle, which will in turn have better traction than a rear-wheel drive vehicle. With that said, I think the value and utility of locking the center diff is downplayed. Point in case: a front wheel drive vehicle will not get stuck with a rear tire spinning, whereas our 4Runner can. The off-roading crowd knows the value of a locked differential (regardless of where the diff is, and those crazy bastards will put a locker on everything), and having three open differentials is not conducive to traction on a slippery surface. If this is true off-road, it is certainly true on-road (when the road is slick with ice, compacted snow, or piled snow).

The 4Runner owner's manual explains that 4H (whether for V6 or V8) is good for general traction on all road surfaces and can be used at all times. It then states reasons to lock the center differential: if greater traction is needed, if tire slippage is occurring, and/or if the VSC is cutting the throttle due to tire slippage. These scenarios are exactly the problems the OP was facing.

Turning off the VSC with three open differentials would only further hinder traction. There's a reason why the stability control cuts throttle when a tire is spinning when all three differentials are open, and a reason it turns off VSC with the center locked. We may not like it, and we may not like the feeling of it, but if it didn't cut the throttle, then the extra torque from pressing the throttle would just be sent to the slipping tire. With three open diffs, one cannot just "power" through a spinning tire. Conversely, once the center is locked, even if a tire is spinning (and therefore robbing traction from the other tire on the same axle), the two other tires on the opposite axle are still getting torque (as there is no center differential to redirect torque between the two axles). Thus, one can "power through" tire slippage with the center locked.

 

[M1911]

Jeff, to be correct, the center diff isn't open, even when unlocked. It is a limited slip diff when unlocked. So that will transfer torque front and rear.

 

[Jeff S.]

Jeff, to be correct, the center diff isn't open, even when unlocked. It is a limited slip diff when unlocked. So that will transfer torque front and rear.

Very true. It's a Torsen T3, and the manufacture calls it a traction differential.

Torsen T-3 Differential



However, in my experience, the center differential unit along with the wheel-slippage sensors can only do some much.

What sparked my interest to learn about this was sitting stuck in my 4Runner with the tires spinning, thinking, "What the hell, how can I be stuck in four wheel drive," only to push the center lock button and.... Drive out likes it's nothing.

The very purpose of a differential is to ALLOW slippage, so a "traction differential," at least to me, is a bit of an oxymoron.

 

[JB.]

....I think the value and utility of locking the center diff is downplayed.

Turning off the VSC with three open differentials would only further hinder traction. There's a reason why the stability control cuts throttle when a tire is spinning when all three differentials are open, and a reason it turns off VSC with the center locked. We may not like it, and we may not like the feeling of it, but if it didn't cut the throttle, then the extra torque from pressing the throttle would just be sent to the slipping tire. With three open diffs, one cannot just "power" through a spinning tire. Conversely, once the center is locked, even if a tire is spinning (and therefore robbing traction from the other tire on the same axle), the two other tires on the opposite axle are still getting torque (as there is no center differential to redirect torque between the two axles). Thus, one can "power through" tire slippage with the center locked.

I certainly agree with you that the center diff lock is under utilized, but I think you're selling the Torsen center diff short. Equating it with an open diff is no more accurate than equating it with a locked one, and your traction distribution model needs a little tweaking. For instance, with the center locked, you'd never get just one wheel on one end spinning. In order for one wheel to spin, another wheel on the opposite axle has to spin with it.

Despite my thread linked earlier, I include myself in the group that thinks unlocked 4wd works extremely well in 99.9% of on-road conditions. I assign most traction problems in that driving mode to two categories: (1) self-inflicted (bad tires, bad driving, etc), or (2) engine suppression (rare).

 

[Jeff S.]

Good deal. I'm still learning.

The reason I consider it an open diff is because of how easy it is to get stuck with one tire in the air (or zero traction) compared to how easy it is to get out once the center is locked.



Thanks for clearing up the distribution of power with a locked center diff. I was visualizing that locking the center differential makes tire slippage irrelevant as one axle can't rob power from the other, but you clarified that by locking the center differential, one is preventing tire slippage in the first place because the two axles are no longer independent (a tire can't spin unless the opposing tire on the opposite axle is spinning in conjunction with it).

 

[M1911]

Good deal. I'm still learning.

The reason I consider it an open diff is because of how easy it is to get stuck with one tire in the air (or zero traction) compared to how easy it is to get out once the center is locked.

There is a reason it is called a "limited slip" differential. A limited slip differential is, well, limited. It can transfer torque from one output to the other, provided there is some resistance on the axle that is slipping. It can't transfer torque when there is zero resistance on one of the axles.

 

[Coveman]

This is one of my favorite videos showing the difference between open and closed differentials and 4x2 and 4x4 applications...

YouTube