Seriously impressed....

Its your money, buy what you want. of course you will get a lot of flack on here for posting anything but 4runner to runner comparo's. I think the new JGC looks good, low to the ground, but good. I have not driven one. I would think it would be way more fun to drive than a 5th gen, which is good to drive but not exciting , and definately not powerful by any means. I think the design/looks of the JGC will be very dated looking in about 2 years, most Dodge stuff looks hot when it hits the market, but then looks very crude to ME just after a short time. Where older Toyota's have the vanilla thing going on, not flashy when new, but still good looking ten years down the road. thats the Toyota way, they love Vanilla, they have spent lots of money on market research and know Vanilla sells.
The 5th Gen missed the mark with bang for the buck, growing features over the 4th gen, quality. I have owned both, and went back to a 4th Gen. the lack of V8 just kills it on the market when you have folks like me that have to tow something. and general torque, everyday driving is more fun, easier when you have a V8. I live on top of a mountain so everyday is an adventure with snow, or some crap road.

I long was a Pentastar lover til they killed my spirit with a new dakota I purchased. the low reliability of it is what killed it, and very poor dealer service. like ghetto poor.

American stuff still has a long way to go. there is all this talk on the cars are better, and I think in general they are in fit and finish, its good to see. Toyota rest's on its laurels too much. the tacoma just gets a new grille for its 7 year makeover, blah! the Tundra, geez could they wait a little longer to re due it? I mean, its been forever, american trucks refresh 2-3 years to keep pace. Tundra is boring with its hideous interior with acres of hard plastic. heck a new dodge looks downright amazing in comparison. The 4runner they rarely advertise, they treat it like a foster child. never on sale, never any good spiffs on it. I have to wonder if there ever will be a 6th Gen. prolly not. All this said you might think I have a beef with Toyota, well, I guess I hate to see them go the way of Honda, boring snooze fest cars with no character/ horrible styling, and hideous looks, but expensive. Remember when the Accord was pinnacle, the civic was unbeatable cheap/fun car, the CRX, the Prelude etc... yeah, thought so.

Toyota waits way to long to redue/update, and doesnt take any chances with throwing a V8 in the Taco or Runner. thats bad. I still think their products have exceptional quality, esp the ones made in Japan. I do love the 4th Gen, and if I had to get another 5th Gen, I would make sure it was the Limited with xreas, or at least the trail. I could only dream they put the new 4.6 in the 5th Gen with Torsen full time awd. ala Lexus.

the new ford raptor looks inviting, and I am far from a ford guy, but if I bought something new this week, it would prolly win. to have good v8 power, great suspension, and unique looks. Kudo's to Ford to have the balls to make it. Toyota could so easily make a kick butt taco with the 4.6, a small lift, some BF's on it etc... call it whatever and charge 9 grand more and I would buy one. but they wont, they are too vanilla for their own good, reminds me of Honda.

my rant is over.
 
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my gf mom has a 2012 jgc and she loved it at first and thought it was so great for about a month. i tried to get her to buy a 4runner but she said this was way better so i said ok we will see. i was impressed with it at first too. then she started to complain to me about it. at first she said "the engine doesnt sound normal when starting it up anymore" and i took a look and it was a little louder than my 4runner starting up from cold so i figured it was normal. then she started to complain of it riding rougher and sounding like a ticking noise in the engine now. so i looked at it and sure enough the engine had a small knocking in it, i told her take it to the dealership and see what they say. they told her it was normal and not to worry. needless to say she says she wish she would have bought a different vehicle and is looking to trade it in now. she always ask to drive my 4runner when i go out of town because she likes it alot.

just because you put make up on a girl and dress her up to make her look good doesnt mean when that make up wears off she will still look good is kinda how i looked at it. the first impression was wow this is nice then the problems started arising.
 
First off...don't rely on "Reviews" to persuade your decision in buying a new vehicle...especially from places like Motor Trend. Motor-Trend's recommendations are bought and paid for by the manufacturer. You should look at some of the "Best Picks" from years past...."Chevy Vega, Renault, Isuzu Pup"...just to name a few. People who are unfamiliar with those vehicles...they all were at the bottom of reliability in their class. The Vega has a reputation of being one of the worse vehicles ever built by any manufacturer.

The Jeep Cherokee "May" be a good reliable vehicle....But you surely can't tell that from a test drive. I for one am NOT going to start buying from GM/Ford or Chryco until they "Prove" to me they are dedicated to building good reliable vehicles again. Maybe some day....but that day isn't now. I surely wish it was....but as far as I can see they still have their heads up their butts and are only looking at how much money they can make for the next quarter. They lost sight of long-term goals years ago. Their short-sightedness is what's killing them. GM is only doing well because of GM China.
 
A very good friend of mine works at a Toyota dealership. When I bought my 07' 4runner I asked him about the truck and he said they are bulletproof, yet he just bought an 11' Jeep Wrangler 4dr. I asked him why and he just kinda shrugged his shoulders. He does offroad/camp quite abit and I think he just believes that Jeeps are more off-road worthy than 4runners. Weird.
 
Frustrated 2012 GC owner - JeepForum.com

New GCO, creaking in back end. - JeepForum.com

Brand New 2012 JGC Overland Quadra Lift already having issues on Day 1. - JeepForum.com

SERV 4WD warning light - JeepForum.com

Air Suspension Issue - JeepForum.com


HEMI overhearting @ 1600km/997 miles - JeepForum.com

fed up - JeepForum.com

Front Shimmy - JeepForum.com

Radio Cuts off on Speed Bumps - JeepForum.com

WK2 Electrical Issue - Interior Electrical Systems Cut Out + All Indicators Light Up - JeepForum.com

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland problems - YouTube

2011 jeep grand cherokee blowing smoke on cold start - YouTube

LOLOL


2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Leak in Roof FAIL - YouTube

I speak from experience. The last JGC I had was an 06 5.7 ltd Hemi. Something like $45K msrp. By 7500 mile entire front axle assembly was replaced and rear end rebuilt. This took MONTHS of me fighting writing letters, calls, arguing, fighting with Service Mgr just to get them to do a thing. ETC failed around 15K miles almost got me killed in an intersection. Starter going out by 30K miles. ABS module failed at TWO HUNDRED MILES. By 16k miles differential noise was back. Got like $17.5 for it with 36K miles in 08.

The JGC I had before that was an 02 Overland. At 40K miles it needed $5k worth of warranty work in one month. Both diffs rebuilt, dash had to be ripped out to replace plastic HVAC actuator, rain sense wiper module fail, heated seats fail, power steering leak etc. The Jeep dealers (I used several in town) were worthless and ignorant.

"Its a Jeep Thing....I totally understand which is why Im in a 4Runner now"
 
Frustrated 2012 GC owner - JeepForum.com

New GCO, creaking in back end. - JeepForum.com

Brand New 2012 JGC Overland Quadra Lift already having issues on Day 1. - JeepForum.com

SERV 4WD warning light - JeepForum.com

Air Suspension Issue - JeepForum.com


HEMI overhearting @ 1600km/997 miles - JeepForum.com

fed up - JeepForum.com

Front Shimmy - JeepForum.com

Radio Cuts off on Speed Bumps - JeepForum.com

WK2 Electrical Issue - Interior Electrical Systems Cut Out + All Indicators Light Up - JeepForum.com

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland problems - YouTube

2011 jeep grand cherokee blowing smoke on cold start - YouTube

LOLOL


2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Leak in Roof FAIL - YouTube

I speak from experience. The last JGC I had was an 06 5.7 ltd Hemi. Something like $45K msrp. By 7500 mile entire front axle assembly was replaced and rear end rebuilt. This took MONTHS of me fighting writing letters, calls, arguing, fighting with Service Mgr just to get them to do a thing. ETC failed around 15K miles almost got me killed in an intersection. Starter going out by 30K miles. ABS module failed at TWO HUNDRED MILES. By 16k miles differential noise was back. Got like $17.5 for it with 36K miles in 08.

The JGC I had before that was an 02 Overland. At 40K miles it needed $5k worth of warranty work in one month. Both diffs rebuilt, dash had to be ripped out to replace plastic HVAC actuator, rain sense wiper module fail, heated seats fail, power steering leak etc. The Jeep dealers (I used several in town) were worthless and ignorant.

"Its a Jeep Thing....I totally understand which is why Im in a 4Runner now"

i understand where you are coming from , i got rid of my '02 GC limited for the 4runner. best move i ever made. the GC was the most unreliable POS made. the last 6 months of ownership i sunk over 2200.00 into it. (1300.00 was an engine @ 124000 miles)

i will never look back at a jeep again.
 
I'd be surprised if the JGC didn't hold up well over time given the detail in the cabin and under the hood that I saw. But I don't know that for sure.... Nobody does at this point. And past history means nothing.... This is a new truck with a new build and a new objective.


I just have to say this really shows You don't know much about cars if you truely mean this.
 
Frustrated 2012 GC owner - JeepForum.com

New GCO, creaking in back end. - JeepForum.com

Brand New 2012 JGC Overland Quadra Lift already having issues on Day 1. - JeepForum.com

SERV 4WD warning light - JeepForum.com

Air Suspension Issue - JeepForum.com


HEMI overhearting @ 1600km/997 miles - JeepForum.com

fed up - JeepForum.com

Front Shimmy - JeepForum.com

Radio Cuts off on Speed Bumps - JeepForum.com

WK2 Electrical Issue - Interior Electrical Systems Cut Out + All Indicators Light Up - JeepForum.com

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland problems - YouTube

2011 jeep grand cherokee blowing smoke on cold start - YouTube

LOLOL


2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Leak in Roof FAIL - YouTube

I speak from experience. The last JGC I had was an 06 5.7 ltd Hemi. Something like $45K msrp. By 7500 mile entire front axle assembly was replaced and rear end rebuilt. This took MONTHS of me fighting writing letters, calls, arguing, fighting with Service Mgr just to get them to do a thing. ETC failed around 15K miles almost got me killed in an intersection. Starter going out by 30K miles. ABS module failed at TWO HUNDRED MILES. By 16k miles differential noise was back. Got like $17.5 for it with 36K miles in 08.

The JGC I had before that was an 02 Overland. At 40K miles it needed $5k worth of warranty work in one month. Both diffs rebuilt, dash had to be ripped out to replace plastic HVAC actuator, rain sense wiper module fail, heated seats fail, power steering leak etc. The Jeep dealers (I used several in town) were worthless and ignorant.

"Its a Jeep Thing....I totally understand which is why Im in a 4Runner now"

oh yeah? Well my 4Runner has a sunroof rattle! Jeeps are better! LOL props for finding these man. Although it probably wasn't too hard :jump:
 
Consumer Reports

All I have to say is read Consumer Reports for Jeep reliability (or lack of reliability). Toyota 4Runner is on the other end of the spectrum when it comes to reliability.
 
So I guess with your mindset, once something is subpar, it can never ever improve no matter what.

If there's "Chrysler" on the nameplate then, no. It started way back with the K car.


Even Daimler Benz said "eff this" and jumped ship.
 
My story is much less complicated....first SUV was a 1985 Jeep Cherokee.....problem after problem, next one,Chevy Trailblazer....no problems but was worth about 1/3 of what I bought it for after 3 years....now my 2004 4R.....first of all, I couldn't find one with less than 99000 miles on it and in my budget. Why???? Because people dont get rid of these things! And, they hold there value. So, girls perspective: Why would you ever buy anything else????
 
And past history means nothing.... This is a new truck with a new build and a new objective.

Past history means EVERYTHING...It's a great indicator as to how much care the manufacturer puts into building their vehicles. Since you have no way of knowing what has changed as far as how the vehicle is manufactured the ONLY reference you have is what they did in the past. Making drastic changes to the manufacturing process isn't going to happen over night. It takes a long time. This is now the 4th generation of the Grand Cherokee. Just because it's a new design doesn't mean it's built differently. Chryco didn't improve quality much (if any) from the 2nd generation to the 3rd.

Only time will tell....And based on their past record...it doesn't look good.
 
Consumer reports can fart in a bag. evil publication. I hated them long before the famous 5th gen review vid of a soccer mom whining about the runner being too rugged and not minivan enough.

I really cannot see why they are still around with everything that is on the internet.
 
Past history means EVERYTHING...It's a great indicator as to how much care the manufacturer puts into building their vehicles. Since you have no way of knowing what has changed as far as how the vehicle is manufactured the ONLY reference you have is what they did in the past.

Now that we're in the 21st century I don't think this is as true as it once was. Current technology allows companies to change direction, forwards or backwards, so much faster now.

The latest generation of the JGC is a much needed improvement over the previous one, while the latest generation of the T4R is a disappointing step backwards due to Toyota bean counters.

I believe Fiat's ownership is up to 53.5% with plans to increase it to 58% soon. Chrysler sales are up 23% this year, 45% for November alone. They paid off their bailout loan (almost $6B) years ahead of schedule.

Personally, I'm rather impressed with Sergio Marchionne and his vision for Chrysler. Sure beats the previous two owners of Chrysler.
 
Consumer reports can fart in a bag. evil publication. I hated them long before the famous 5th gen review vid of a soccer mom whining about the runner being too rugged and not minivan enough.

I really cannot see why they are still around with everything that is on the internet.

Yes, I saw that too, but i'm talking from a reliability standpoint. There is no way in hell that a Jeep is more reliable than a Toyota. Jeep has one of the worse reliabilities. Numbers don't lie.
 
Now that we're in the 21st century I don't think this is as true as it once was. Current technology allows companies to change direction, forwards or backwards, so much faster now.

I'm not talking about technology. I'm talking about Management and the info structure that management has put into place. With a large corporation this is very very difficult to change. You're talking about retraining and relearning THOUSANDS of people.

That is NOT going to happen in short period of time.
 
I'm not talking about technology. I'm talking about Management and the info structure that management has put into place. With a large corporation this is very very difficult to change. You're talking about retraining and relearning THOUSANDS of people.

That is NOT going to happen in short period of time.

As one who has been involved in three large corporate mergers in the past 14 years, I can say for certain that management restructuring and thousands of people learning new corporate culture In a short period of time can and does happen all the time.
 
As one who has been involved in three large corporate mergers in the past 14 years, I can say for certain that management restructuring and thousands of people learning new corporate culture In a short period of time can and does happen all the time.

Why are you such a Jeep fanboy? Changing the culture in a Union environment is next to impossible. Jeremy Clarkson summed up the typical American worker in the US Corvette special quite well.
 

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