ChildrenOfBodom
Moderator
No more keyboard commandos. Act like adults.
Next one to take a shot spends the night in the box.
Next one to take a shot spends the night in the box.
Severe Frame Rust is Not Acceptable
- Thread starter deadrunner.org
- Start date
BlackCat914
New member
No more keyboard commandos. Act like adults.
Next one to take a shot spends the night in the box.
bluecollarjock
New member
No more keyboard commandos. Act like adults.
Next one to take a shot spends the night in the box.
haha love it!
hamiltonj2w1
New member
I think this thread is just dumb, you create a blog for your utter disregard and disrespect to a truly amazing vehicle and expect us to sympathize with you? Not gonna happen please delete your account sir and never post this blasphemy anywhere else! End of rant.
BlackCat914
New member
haha, exactly. "Umm, hey guys, I know you all love your trucks a LOT, but I wanted to come in here and tell you how much I think Toyota's suck. But follow my blog and help me get help from Toyota!"
larrylegend
New member
I realize the Honda doesn't have a regular frame. However, the control arms, steering components and regular nuts and bolts on the Honda look far better than my 4Runner. All I'm saying is other types of vehicles don't have nearly the rust issues on metal surfaces like some 4Runners do.
BlackCat914
New member
and I get that, and agree to a point. My whole point is, is that 3rd gen 4Runners haven't been produced in over 11 years. Couple that with the fact that most of our runners are over 100k, the liability on Toyota has long since passed. 4runners that are in hot climates like AZ, So Cal, and Nevada have clear coat peeling issues, but you don't hear anyone *****ing about toyota quality paint, do you? No, because people chalk it up to the climate, and accept it. So why do people that live in the salt belt complain about rust? It's just the nature of the beast man, and there's nothing, IMO, that Toyota should be liable for.
FWIW, my truck hasn't been driven at all in the last week. Last Saturday, I took it to the car wash and tucked it back away in the garage. This morning, (keep in mind, it hasn't been driven the entire week) I took it to the car wash AGAIN for another wash and undercarriage blast. Overkill? Maybe, but my frame doesn't have gigantic holes rotted in it, and I'm not on an iterweb forum *****ing about a problem that could have been prevented, and I'm sure as hell not blaming Toyota for the little bit of rust my truck does have.
Monkeybutt2000
New member
Before I bought my 01',I had looked at a 98 Limited in the dark green I love. Nice truck,1owner,was a service manager at some dealership.Had all service records,etc. After the initial test drive I was sold and gave it another good looking over. I noticed a perforated spot in the middle of the frame,and grabbed it and literally crushed it by squeezing it. To say I was crushed is an understatement. I figured it was an isolated incident,as I never heard of the 4Runners having any frame issues like the Tacomas of that era. So I picked up my 01' last September,and gave it a real good inspection. The frame had surface rust on the weld joints,but that was it. After I joined this forum and started reading,I was shocked to see the frame issues and was having second thoughts about my purchase. I started poking around the frame in the areas where the rust seems most prevalent. I have long,skinny fingers so I can actually reach into the frame and feel around. No scaly rust but I did find a gathering of dirt/crud in one area I will remove when the weather warms up. Even the old Toyota trucks had this issue,they always rotted out around the spring perches,why Toyota never addressed this problem on the newer frames is beyond me. A simple drain hole could've alleviated alot of these issues IMO.
The only thing dumb here is aggresive and bombastic chest thumping comments from people that beleive their way of thinking, reasoning and behavior is the only right way. And that everybody should get out of "their" house. End of rant.
While on the subject:
Is it reasonable for a frame to rust in half on a vehicle in question? Absolutely not. It's not the same as not changing oil and then complaing about sludge. The frame is not a maintenance item, with no special maintenance or inspection schedule.
Is it Toyota's liability to fix things out of warranty? Obvioiusly not.
Would it be reasonable to expect Toyota to offer some compensation for the failure? Yes, they have recalled and bought back very similar vehicles for an identical issue.
Would it be reasonable to expect Toyota to issue a special maintenance statement? Yes.
Would it be reasonable to expect every owner to own a creeper and be an expert at inspecting the undercarriage? No.
The frame failures up to now have been in very non-obvious ways. There are many cases where regular mechanics did not identify any problems.
Has Toyota done enough to spread awareness? Not that I heard of.
Is it reasonable for a frame to rust in half on a vehicle in question? Absolutely not. It's not the same as not changing oil and then complaing about sludge. The frame is not a maintenance item, with no special maintenance or inspection schedule.
Is it Toyota's liability to fix things out of warranty? Obvioiusly not.
Would it be reasonable to expect Toyota to offer some compensation for the failure? Yes, they have recalled and bought back very similar vehicles for an identical issue.
Would it be reasonable to expect Toyota to issue a special maintenance statement? Yes.
Would it be reasonable to expect every owner to own a creeper and be an expert at inspecting the undercarriage? No.
The frame failures up to now have been in very non-obvious ways. There are many cases where regular mechanics did not identify any problems.
Has Toyota done enough to spread awareness? Not that I heard of.
Hepar
New member
I do think there's a point to this thread. Rust can be an issue on these frames. It's popped up time and time again. Will everyone here get on board and attack Toyota? I highly doubt it. However, the more info that's on these rigs the more people will look into any potential problem BEFORE they buy.
BlackCat914
New member
just to be clear, you agree there is no liability on Toyota for a rotted frame, but somehow feel they should offer compensation for the issue?
And, a frame inspection should be performed every time you change the oil, and is typically done during the multi-point inspection process.
Also, what would you like Toyota to do to spread awareness? Let everyone know that a 11+ year old vehicle that has been out of warranty for a minimum of 8 years might need a close inspection to check for any unusual issues!? Again, they owe you NOTHING. You think you're ENTITLED to them letting a monsterous consumer base know about an issue that might affect a select number of vehicles? lol, good luck with that.
hamiltonj2w1
New member
I am sorry I guess I should feel bad for the guy who didn't care of his vehicle and creates a blog about how Toyota sucks? No thanks I guess I will stick to chest thumping??
I honestly belive if the guy would have joined and voiced his concern differently he might have got a little more positive feedback just saying. Thats like me going on my Evo X forum and complaining I blew my motor due to driving like a retard and begging for mercy I would get flamed way harder then this!
And fyi I am out of my house I am deployed 7500 miles away from my family helping protect everybody on here's right to freedom of speech! if you don't like my comments then don't read them.
Correct, no legal liability, it's even in bold in my original statement.
Yes, like they were under no legal obligation to buy back rusted Tacomas, but still did it out of good will, and because it was the right thing to do.
That's not in the manual. It doesn't say inspect the frame every 3000 miles. What you say "should" be done is above and beyond reasonable maintenance.
A two paragraph post card in the mail is suffcient, with specific instructions where to check for rot.
Again, the issue is not obvious and is often missed by mechanics, unless they know specifically what to look for. In the case of the original poster, he claims that the vehicle was inspected regularly, and nothing was found. It is a repeat scenario of other similar cases.
BlackCat914
New member
Don't get me wrong, I see your point. I do, however, think it's dumb to argue about the shoulda woulda coulda aspect. At the end of the day, they're plain old, not responsible for anything. Why don't we petition our state governments to use an alternative to road salt?
I just think blaming toyota about rust due to road salt damage is like blaming the sun for a sunburn. If frames were rotting while under factory warranty, ok then, I get it.
BrianSD_42
New member
Do other trucks have the same type of issues? What about Ford/Chevy/Honda ect. ... I am curious if this is just normal for truck that are 10+ years old and in the rust belt or abnormal.
BlackCat914
New member
Infiniti recalled the QX4 and did a buyback program, Jeep's frames rot out here, Chevy has HUGE issues with pinch weld rust here, etc. The salt SUCKS.
I'm glad this thread eventually turned into an intelligent conversation. The first few posts of "Toyotas are the best, the OP is an idiot" were laughable.
These are nice vehicles, but it's clear that their frames were poorly rust-proofed from the factory. Toyota does a nice job engineering low maintenance, durable vehicles, but they really cut corners in a number of areas. As we began to discover about 10 years after the first 3rd gens hit the road, the frames clearly fall into the "cut corners" camp.
I looked at more than a dozen 3rd gens when I was searching for one. These vehicles are definitely more prone to frame rot than many other body-on-frame vehicles. The only other body-on-frame SUV I looked at that seemed to have a higher propensity to frame rot was the Land Rover Discovery.
I do think Toyota should do something about this - primarily because of the precedent set with the Tundra and Tacoma frames. Google "rusty Tacoma" and "rusty 4Runner" and you'll see basically identical photographs. It's only fair that be accountable for all, not just a portion, of the vehicles with so-so frames.
At the same time, I think the servicing dealership needed to be held accountable in this case. But since the 4Runner has been sold, I think it's too late at this point. But there's simply no way the rust situation escalated so greatly over the course of just one year since the last inspection. That's clearly an over time accumulation of rust, and I'm sure it was quite noticeable last year.
I'm glad this owner is raising hell with Toyota. My 4Runner shows some light surface rust at the welding points where cross-members and other components were attached to the frame. I hit them with a wire brush and put some POR-15 over them just to be on the safe side, but I'm anal like that. My 4Runner spent a couple of years in PA but most of its life in Eastern NC and West Texas - no doubt most of that rust developed during its early years in PA. I can't imagine what it would look like if it had never left PA...
These are nice vehicles, but it's clear that their frames were poorly rust-proofed from the factory. Toyota does a nice job engineering low maintenance, durable vehicles, but they really cut corners in a number of areas. As we began to discover about 10 years after the first 3rd gens hit the road, the frames clearly fall into the "cut corners" camp.
I looked at more than a dozen 3rd gens when I was searching for one. These vehicles are definitely more prone to frame rot than many other body-on-frame vehicles. The only other body-on-frame SUV I looked at that seemed to have a higher propensity to frame rot was the Land Rover Discovery.
I do think Toyota should do something about this - primarily because of the precedent set with the Tundra and Tacoma frames. Google "rusty Tacoma" and "rusty 4Runner" and you'll see basically identical photographs. It's only fair that be accountable for all, not just a portion, of the vehicles with so-so frames.
At the same time, I think the servicing dealership needed to be held accountable in this case. But since the 4Runner has been sold, I think it's too late at this point. But there's simply no way the rust situation escalated so greatly over the course of just one year since the last inspection. That's clearly an over time accumulation of rust, and I'm sure it was quite noticeable last year.
I'm glad this owner is raising hell with Toyota. My 4Runner shows some light surface rust at the welding points where cross-members and other components were attached to the frame. I hit them with a wire brush and put some POR-15 over them just to be on the safe side, but I'm anal like that. My 4Runner spent a couple of years in PA but most of its life in Eastern NC and West Texas - no doubt most of that rust developed during its early years in PA. I can't imagine what it would look like if it had never left PA...
woodro
New member
how many people do you think actually wash the undercarriage of their cars ? im talking average people the just use their cars to go back and forth to work . not enthusiasts like us . i bet not many , so that means that most cars and trucks that live in my area would have frame rot after 10-13 years . but the only thing is i dont see it , in fact this is the first truck i have owned with frame rot .
as for inspection when is the last time you have seen a inspection tech bang on the frame rails with a hammer ? because some of the rot on my frame still had the factory paint and was rotting from the inside out.
i love toyotas and have probably owned more than most people on this forum . right now i have 2 trucks and get a new lexus every 3 years (on my 4th) . but im not blinded from the truth . toyota obviously has a problem with frames , there track record is not good in this department . now do i think this is as bad a problem as with the tacoma's and tundra's ? no but still a problem .
btw i was at the dealership the other day and they told me they just did a frame swap on a sequoia , wonder if they are the next recall ?
take it easy on the guy he has a right to be a little pissed off .
as for inspection when is the last time you have seen a inspection tech bang on the frame rails with a hammer ? because some of the rot on my frame still had the factory paint and was rotting from the inside out.
i love toyotas and have probably owned more than most people on this forum . right now i have 2 trucks and get a new lexus every 3 years (on my 4th) . but im not blinded from the truth . toyota obviously has a problem with frames , there track record is not good in this department . now do i think this is as bad a problem as with the tacoma's and tundra's ? no but still a problem .
btw i was at the dealership the other day and they told me they just did a frame swap on a sequoia , wonder if they are the next recall ?
take it easy on the guy he has a right to be a little pissed off .
Agreed on all points. I believe there is a recall on the Sequoias. I know someone who was contacted by his dealer to have an inspection done. His wasn't replaced - I think they just did some sort of undercoating to it. Probably POR-15!
