Shut down.......
- Thread starter Bodhi327
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simple
Senior Member
To be fair, this is indeed a self made emergency from the right. They gave 6mo to figure out this DACA thing, and no one gave it 2 thoughts until this shutdown. Now, the republican held congress has proved they can act in about 12
mins, I.e. tax plan, but only when it’s along party lines. This is the first thing that congress has attempted to do which truly requires a bipartisan vote. I do agree there’s silliness along both sides, but I don’t necessarily fault ‘Chuck and Nancy’ for using the leverage they finally have to fix an issue that’s important to their constituents.
The Republicans have had a real hard time since they gained control on all 3 levels. And the day is coming where they will feel the impact of the filabuster repeal. It may not be this November, but my bet is, it is. I hope the dems are adults and chose to act bipartisan, but I doubt that will be the case, sadly.
mins, I.e. tax plan, but only when it’s along party lines. This is the first thing that congress has attempted to do which truly requires a bipartisan vote. I do agree there’s silliness along both sides, but I don’t necessarily fault ‘Chuck and Nancy’ for using the leverage they finally have to fix an issue that’s important to their constituents.
The Republicans have had a real hard time since they gained control on all 3 levels. And the day is coming where they will feel the impact of the filabuster repeal. It may not be this November, but my bet is, it is. I hope the dems are adults and chose to act bipartisan, but I doubt that will be the case, sadly.
Hepar
New member
This is very true. The only way things move in either direction is if there's a significant majority to one side or the other. Which, just serves to infuriate the other side. We need more moderation and people willing to work together. Term limits are a start. If you are ineffective in office, get them the hell out.
The other is that none of these people who are in control of so many jobs should be getting paid during a shutdown either. They should be volunteering their time in order to move things along.
simple
Senior Member
How do term limits affect effectiveness? Also, I honestly don’t get why people care if they still get paid? I can’t imagine a single senator gives any ****s about their paycheck for a month. They’re not living paycheck to paycheck like many Americans are.
Hepar
New member
I don't necessarily think one dictates the other. What I do feel happens a lot is that once you are re-elected a few times, you get a large boost in votes on future elections simply on name recognition and not on actual merit.
And yes, it's definitely different for those on the higher pay scale, but it doesn't hurt to add them to the shutdown.
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00Sebby
Senior Member
My theory on term limits is this. If being an elected senator was no longer a lifetime, career position with other-worldly lifetime benefits and one that requires a huge focus on self-preservation to stay in that position, the people who are elected for a term or two may actually go to Washington to try to best serve their constituents rather than just themselves. The current setup has created a ruling class of arrogant a-holes that only care about party preservation and lines, being on the winning side, etc. and are so far removed from real America that they can't possibly SERVE effectively. Some liberal and conservative ideas are worthy of consideration by both sides and should be evaluated by what's best for America as a whole. The current longterm alliances/enmities do not allow that to happen
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2flyfishin
New member
Both sides just keep blaming each other. The Dems called the Rep. basically the devil for shutting down the government when they were in power and now it's the opposite. Right wing/ left wing, They're both wings off the same lame duck and neither side will do what's right because they're both just trying to get votes and stir up crap. Until both sides have to live by the same rules we do and can't get rich off of our backs, nothing will ever really get done. Term limits are a must. With out them both sides will never vote to do what truly needs to be done because they won't need to worry about being reelected. Many times what the best thing is for the long term will upset many people for the short term. Attaching DACA to the budget is plain and simple STUPID! and should be voted on separately. Chuck and Nancy with the dem's should be blamed and if it was the other way around the blame would and should be put on the rep's.
BettysNephew
New member
Ah yes, but all the congress critters will still get their paychecks, it is our soldiers and other little people that don't get paid. BS!!!
We know where u stand
Adds nothing to the conversation, if you think obama and Clinton where better that’s great. But neither have anything to do with the shutdown. When Bush left office a Democrat was next because we where sick of the Republicans. After 8 years of Obama everyone was sick of the Democrats. How else can you explain who our current president is. The continuation of insult and cartoons and Facebook captions just means we r still in park and never putting the car in gear and moving forward. The democratic/Republican party is the same self serving. I personally think both sides are nuts.
Adds nothing to the conversation, if you think obama and Clinton where better that’s great. But neither have anything to do with the shutdown. When Bush left office a Democrat was next because we where sick of the Republicans. After 8 years of Obama everyone was sick of the Democrats. How else can you explain who our current president is. The continuation of insult and cartoons and Facebook captions just means we r still in park and never putting the car in gear and moving forward. The democratic/Republican party is the same self serving. I personally think both sides are nuts.
There is absolutely no need for a shutdown
If I picked a side the dems are to blame on this one. DACA takes a back seat to the legal residents and the needs of people here the right way. When did the word illegal mean anything but wrong? I get it families can be torn apart, but they did the wrong thing.
If I picked a side the dems are to blame on this one. DACA takes a back seat to the legal residents and the needs of people here the right way. When did the word illegal mean anything but wrong? I get it families can be torn apart, but they did the wrong thing.
simple
Senior Member
So, I can see that. I can also say that as far as we know, this works out really well for the office of the President. But to run for Congress, House or Senate, requires an incredible amount of resources. The average person will not have the income or ability to drop their career and put their hat in for public office. Especially when you take into account 2-4yr terms already. What, 2 Terms? Drop your whole life to potentially get 4-8yrs of a career? Not many people will undergo that, and regardless, you're still going to get the "Incumbency Factor" where people just vote based on a name.
Additionally, I get Trump gets a lot of praise because he's not a 'politician'. But regardless of what you think about his natural leadership, he's having a lot of growing pains in the first year, and the country is along for the ride.
I don't think experience and career politicians are not the enemy. The thought of Oprah Winfrey, The Rock, Mark Cuban, or Ivanka, or whoever the fudge else has deep enough pockets to run for President makes me want to vomit. And I can't believe because a guy says the first thought on his mind that people 'identify with him' because the only 2 things the majority of the President's base and he have in common is that they're humans. The nation needs strong leadership, and people with experience and that know how things work is a critical piece of the puzzle.
And lastly, I'll submit that if term limits were to be handed out, I would imagine that some people a year, or even 2 out will start thinking about whats next for their life, and potentially 'drop their pack' so to speak. I wouldn't blame them either. And I would imagine that Big Government would essentially just prime people and throw their resources the next seat stays in the party. Your problem isn't with the unlimited terms, I think it's with the average voter who doesn't give enough of a shit.
I certainly can't and don't speak for all service members or their families, but even if pay is withheld, there's a lot of resources to keep them afloat. USAA, NavyFed, and similar Military Centric Banks will 'loan' the service member their paycheck and automatically deposit the amount in their checking account. When the gov reopens, and back pay is filled, the bank will recoup their money and its entirely transparent to the service member. Additionally the military is fairly good at looking out for their own. If people are hurting, they'll get taken care of.
Where this does certainly affect units is readiness. It can be as simple as toilet paper and pens, or for instance in aviation, cancelling flight hours for pilots or not being able to procure parts for broken aircraft. Additionally civilian employees I imagine will certainly feel an impact with their furloughs.
Brother, I hear yeah. And I don't disagree. But it's not as simple as they're 'illegals' and we're not. This is really complicated and people's lives I think are legit in the balance here. Nut to just say what you did above, and leave it at that I think does a great disservice to the problem.
LandCruiser
New member
It’s extremely simple.
No government in its right mind would put the needs of foreign nationals who are here illegally over those of its citizens and citizen soldiers.
Congress critters care about only one thing, votes.
This country is being sold away piece by piece to pay for incumbency.
No government in its right mind would put the needs of foreign nationals who are here illegally over those of its citizens and citizen soldiers.
Congress critters care about only one thing, votes.
This country is being sold away piece by piece to pay for incumbency.
4Reak Show
New member
Remember when the stock market exploded from the housing nonsense and the banks ran out of money? (2008 or so right?).
How'd the rest of that story go? Oh yeah yeah that's right: taxpayer money was used to pick up the pieces to the tune of $900,000,000,000. Where are these banks now to help out?
Weird one way street going on there... It's all a joke, a game, a farce. Blame red, blame blue, blame greed. Doesn't matter. Pride vs integrity and pride seems to be winning...
How'd the rest of that story go? Oh yeah yeah that's right: taxpayer money was used to pick up the pieces to the tune of $900,000,000,000. Where are these banks now to help out?
Weird one way street going on there... It's all a joke, a game, a farce. Blame red, blame blue, blame greed. Doesn't matter. Pride vs integrity and pride seems to be winning...
lucky7
New member
Bingo. And how FEW have noticed that it's HAPPENED AGAIN?
I'm 33 and I haven't had a full time job since 2014. I'm not paying Obamacare, I'm not paying for Israel's wars, and I sure as hell am not paying to 'bail out' more banks and shitty auto companies.
These idiots do this for show on a regular basis. Everyone will get paid because it never was a finance issue. How would one run out of money when they have the ability to create it out of thin air? All liability goes to taxpayers. ALL OF IT.
It's so depressing reading through threads like this. Turn off your effing tell-lie-vision already. It only exists to brainwash.
00Sebby
Senior Member
All good points. They could make it longer terms, say two 4 yr terms for representative, maybe two 6 year terms for senators. 12 years is still much better than 30+ years and we would still get new people in there. That way, half a term is not used up trying to be reelected. Then pay them enough ($500k/yr) so that it draws people to the position, but benefits would have to be same as ACA or whatever they mandate for the citizens. At the end of the term, no retirement other than what they were able to put in 401k, etc. like the rest of Americans. They would still be able to leave as millionaires but we would not have to deal with them for generations. Ending the pension and benefits after leaving office would help pay for the high salaries. I don't know the answers but the current permanency of the offices are a problem.
