Shut down.......

[BrianSD_42]

Yes Nancy and Chuck should GTFO. The dems lost all of the heartland and rust belt in 2016 but somehow are still didn't fire their leaders from SF and NY.

Looking at it for a moment soley from the perpective of what should the Dems do to takeover the government in 2018 elections, I don't think shutting down the government over DACA is the right move.

The Dems lost big in 2016 and immigration was one of the top reasons why. Here comes Trump and unless congress acts the exec dept is going to start rounding up familes and children right in the middle of am election year.

The best thing the dems can do to take back the WH -- for a little while -- is let Trump be Trump. Every dreamer they round up the latin America community, much of whom can vote, wakes up a bit more as a political voting class. The DEMs pulling a shutdown over DACA .... its too soon.

 

[wallytoo]

Yes Nancy and Chuck should GTFO. The dems lost all of the heartland and rust belt in 2016 but somehow are still didn't fire their leaders from SF and NY.

Looking at it for a moment soley from the perpective of what should the Dems do to takeover the government in 2018 elections, I don't think shutting down the government over DACA is the right move.

The Dems lost big in 2016 and immigration was one of the top reasons why. Here comes Trump and unless congress acts the exec dept is going to start rounding up familes and children right in the middle of am election year.

The best thing the dems can do to take back the WH -- for a little while -- is let Trump be Trump. Every dreamer they round up the latin America community, much of whom can vote, wakes up a bit more as a political voting class. The DEMs pulling a shutdown over DACA .... its too soon.

i believe you give too much credit to either party, to be able to look into the future beyond next week. not really different than society in general.

 

[AKmoney]

I can tell you with 100% confidence, if there was a volunteer petition to sign, there would be a line out the door. Believe me on that one, there is absolutely no doubt. The world has hated America for a long time and that's by no means the fault of any one single party. It's because in general, America makes everyone else's battles their problem and doesn't know how to keep it's nose out of anything. For instance, who the hell cares how any other country treats their people? We have so many issues here, in so much financial debt, yet we keep aiding other countries....... Lets fix our own before we stick our nose into other peoples issues. Nigeria is a shithole, yes it is, arab countries treat their people light shit, yep, so what, is it our problem, no it's not. Never was and never should be, move on, worry about America first for once.

I think what you'll start to see over the coming years is America's declining interest in overseas politics. The biggest driver of this is the shale oil revolution. Pretty soon the US will produce more oil than Saudia Arabia. When we don't need their oil, surprise surprise, we won't care much about that they do to each other in that part of the world.

Look up a guy named Peter Zeihan and watch his videos on YouTube or Vimeo.

 

[simple]

Yes Nancy and Chuck should GTFO. The dems lost all of the heartland and rust belt in 2016 but somehow are still didn't fire their leaders from SF and NY.

Looking at it for a moment soley from the perpective of what should the Dems do to takeover the government in 2018 elections, I don't think shutting down the government over DACA is the right move.

The Dems lost big in 2016 and immigration was one of the top reasons why. Here comes Trump and unless congress acts the exec dept is going to start rounding up familes and children right in the middle of am election year.

The best thing the dems can do to take back the WH -- for a little while -- is let Trump be Trump. Every dreamer they round up the latin America community, much of whom can vote, wakes up a bit more as a political voting class. The DEMs pulling a shutdown over DACA .... its too soon.

Please, dude. Trump has been Trump for 2yrs now. The attention span of the average American under the Trump White House is only marginally better than a gold fish. The cycles come too fast and new distractions halt the narrative. We seriously took a 3wk break from the brink of war on NK to talk about clown NFL players and their first amendment rights, or rather lack-there-of.

Not being trump is not enough if the dems want to win big in November. The tax plan got done, which is going to be popular in the short term, and the Economy is supposedly booming, despite the stock market not being the economy. These are things that will play well in 10short months. I see what you’re saying, but in my mind it would be criminal if the dems had a chance to get something done and they put it off to maybe ‘play better’ in November.

I think what you'll start to see over the coming years is America's declining interest in overseas politics. The biggest driver of this is the shale oil revolution. Pretty soon the US will produce more oil than Saudia Arabia. When we don't need their oil, surprise surprise, we won't care much about that they do to each other in that part of the world.

Look up a guy named Peter Zeihan and watch his videos on YouTube or Vimeo.

Disagree. America, despite the serious hits we’ve taken this past year, the US is a global leader. With Russia and China hitting the gym and flexing their muscles, nuclear concerns via NK and Iran, and global terrorism, the US has no choice but to continue to try and exude its influence. But the minute we lose our moral high ground, we lose our ability to shit talk ****ed up regimes. The world is getting smaller and the resources of the future is not oil. It’s water and food. Isolationism isn’t doing anybody any favors. Global partnerships aren’t a zero sum game. Winners and losers aren’t binary options. Collaboration breeds stability.

 

[AKmoney]

Disagree. America, despite the serious hits we’ve taken this past year, the US is a global leader. With Russia and China hitting the gym and flexing their muscles, nuclear concerns via NK and Iran, and global terrorism, the US has no choice but to continue to try and exude its influence. But the minute we lose our moral high ground, we lose our ability to shit talk ****ed up regimes. The world is getting smaller and the resources of the future is not oil. It’s water and food. Isolationism isn’t doing anybody any favors. Global partnerships aren’t a zero sum game. Winners and losers aren’t binary options. Collaboration breeds stability.

If you have some time, watch his lecture. Best for me not to try to misinterpret anything. I thought it was pretty eye-opening. It isn't *all* about oil (shale), but it's a big part of it. I think there's also a difference between collaboration and outright meddling.

https://vimeo.com/215078563

 

[lucky7]

Please, dude. Trump has been Trump for 2yrs now. The attention span of the average American under the Trump White House is only marginally better than a gold fish. The cycles come too fast and new distractions halt the narrative. We seriously took a 3wk break from the brink of war on NK to talk about clown NFL players and their first amendment rights, or rather lack-there-of.

Not being trump is not enough if the dems want to win big in November. The tax plan got done, which is going to be popular in the short term, and the Economy is supposedly booming, despite the stock market not being the economy. These are things that will play well in 10short months. I see what you’re saying, but in my mind it would be criminal if the dems had a chance to get something done and they put it off to maybe ‘play better’ in November.


Disagree. America, despite the serious hits we’ve taken this past year, the US is a global leader. With Russia and China hitting the gym and flexing their muscles, nuclear concerns via NK and Iran, and global terrorism, the US has no choice but to continue to try and exude its influence. But the minute we lose our moral high ground, we lose our ability to shit talk ****ed up regimes. The world is getting smaller and the resources of the future is not oil. It’s water and food. Isolationism isn’t doing anybody any favors. Global partnerships aren’t a zero sum game. Winners and losers aren’t binary options. Collaboration breeds stability.

This country has ZERO 'moral high ground.' Not only is it completely bankrupt with no hope of going back to the 'good old days,' the government and its foreign policy has been completely bought and paid for. The war on terror is not a war on terror, it's a war for Greater Israel. There is no NK threat of nuclear war because NK has no nukes, and the fat man is nothing more than a puppet - just like the rest of them. All the world's a stage. If you turn off all the fake media (EVERYTHING on TV and Radio), you'll find the world isn't nearly as terrifying as 'they' will have you believe.


I'm so sick of the red vs blue, phony paradigm. People are controlled and manipulated via Hegelian dialectic to push agendas. Once you can see it, you'll never be able to ignore it.

 

[mrblah]

wow, as of today, even the liberal media is touting this as a failure for the liberal left to get concessions from the GOP.

It makes sense though, using the government as a bargaining chip for DACA concessions was a bit absurd even for people in the DNC.

 

[mrblah]

This country has ZERO 'moral high ground.' Not only is it completely bankrupt with no hope of going back to the 'good old days,' the government and its foreign policy has been completely bought and paid for. The war on terror is not a war on terror, it's a war for Greater Israel. There is no NK threat of nuclear war because NK has no nukes, and the fat man is nothing more than a puppet - just like the rest of them. All the world's a stage. If you turn off all the fake media (EVERYTHING on TV and Radio), you'll find the world isn't nearly as terrifying as 'they' will have you believe.


I'm so sick of the red vs blue, phony paradigm. People are controlled and manipulated via Hegelian dialectic to push agendas. Once you can see it, you'll never be able to ignore it.

hold on man, let me get my tin foil hat :thumb:

 

[BrianSD_42]

This country has ZERO 'moral high ground.' Not only is it completely bankrupt with no hope of going back to the 'good old days,' the government and its foreign policy has been completely bought and paid for. The war on terror is not a war on terror, it's a war for Greater Israel. There is no NK threat of nuclear war because NK has no nukes, and the fat man is nothing more than a puppet - just like the rest of them. All the world's a stage. If you turn off all the fake media (EVERYTHING on TV and Radio), you'll find the world isn't nearly as terrifying as 'they' will have you believe.

I'm so sick of the red vs blue, phony paradigm. People are controlled and manipulated via Hegelian dialectic to push agendas. Once you can see it, you'll never be able to ignore it.

Another Flat Earther here I presume .....

 

[BrianSD_42]

wow, as of today, even the liberal media is touting this as a failure for the liberal left to get concessions from the GOP.

It makes sense though, using the government as a bargaining chip for DACA concessions was a bit absurd even for people in the DNC.

Actually it isn't a total fail for the Dems despite what the MS media is reporting. For one they funded CHIP for 6 years, taking that off the table.

Now all that is left is for the republicans to either:

A) Not solve the DACA problem with a type of amnesty for DACA, so just round em up! - keep in mind that rounding up 700,000 mostly children and young adults during an election year is a terrible scenario for the GOP. The super Trump base will love this but it will hit the right hard on election year to see kids in college getting arrested by ICE every week.

B) Actually compromise and trade temporary amnesty for DACA recipients in exchange for Wall Funding or ending trade migration or a points system etc. This kind of trade could be claimed as a win by both sides.


Both of these can be a win for the left in 2018 mid-terms.


:wow:

 

[LandCruiser]

Actually it isn't a total fail for the Dems despite what the MS media is reporting. For one they funded CHIP for 6 years, taking that off the table.

Now all that is left is for the republicans to either:

A) Not solve the DACA problem with a type of amnesty for DACA, so just round em up! - keep in mind that rounding up 700,000 mostly children and young adults during an election year is a terrible scenario for the GOP. The super Trump base will love this but it will hit the right hard on election year to see kids in college getting arrested by ICE every week.

B) Actually compromise and trade temporary amnesty for DACA recipients in exchange for Wall Funding or ending trade migration or a points system etc. This kind of trade could be claimed as a win by both sides.


Both of these can be a win for the left in 2018 mid-terms.


:wow:

Average age of DACA recipients is 24. These aren't "children" or "young adults" these are grown ass adults. Most don't have any higher education (they're not the doctors or lawyers I keep hearing they are), and most COST the US more in entitlements than they put into the economy. There won't be any massive outpouring of sympathy if they are deported.

 

[BrianSD_42]

My political strategy theories are just that, theories and I wouldn't describe myself as pro sanctuary state.

But I still think it's a terrible idea for the Republicans to have ICE start rounding up the DACA 700,000+ folks.

Frankly if they were really trying to help the American worker congress and the administration would ban all new H1-B Visa's ENTIRELY. The H1-B holders are good people who are here to make money for their families but this program really really hurts the American middle class, mostly the educated middle class by lowering wages and in many cases outright laying off America jobs entirely. It's BAD! And SAD!

 

[mrblah]

Actually it isn't a total fail for the Dems despite what the MS media is reporting. For one they funded CHIP for 6 years, taking that off the table.

Now all that is left is for the republicans to either:

A) Not solve the DACA problem with a type of amnesty for DACA, so just round em up! - keep in mind that rounding up 700,000 mostly children and young adults during an election year is a terrible scenario for the GOP. The super Trump base will love this but it will hit the right hard on election year to see kids in college getting arrested by ICE every week.

B) Actually compromise and trade temporary amnesty for DACA recipients in exchange for Wall Funding or ending trade migration or a points system etc. This kind of trade could be claimed as a win by both sides.


To Landcruiser:

Yeah, I noticed that most DACA recipients aren't kids if you look at the statistics, not even 8 years ago. The media wants to portray them as such, and because the media portrayal of DACA recipents were dishonest, and the DNC ran with that portrayal, everyone now associates the DNC and DACA recipients as dishonest...(thats why I think the DACA issue is backfiring on the dems).




Both of these can be a win for the left in 2018 mid-terms.


:wow:

It's hard to say whats going to happen with the political maneuvering on both sides. I think you are right on plan A, but with a twist. The GOP will use DACA as a bargaining chip/wild card, and the fevor liberal left will force the DNC to either stay moderate or swing even more left. I think the DACA issue has backfired on the Dem's to be honest. Reason for this, is we know where the GOP stands on the DACA issue (embracing the hate so to speak), but the dem's are divided on the issue.

As for midterm elections, who knows whats going to happen. If we look at the media, you will notice alot of trump/gop trashing, but if you took all of those stories out of the news, there isn't alot of positive news on the Democratic party either. I think the dem's are in a worse position than the GOP because they are pretty much leaderless on a national level. On the other hand, the GOP are standing firmly on the pressing political issues (love it or hate it).

I"m hoping for scenerio B, but as we have seen, bipartisanship doesn't quite exist at the moment, so I don't think this will happen.

I feel bad for the DACA participants. I do realize they are humans and they did try to comply with the immigration law under the previous administration, unlike the other millions of free loading illegals. It is unfortunate that they have become political pawns, with no solution in sight for their plight.

 

[mrblah]

Average age of DACA recipients is 24. These aren't "children" or "young adults" these are grown ass adults. Most don't have any higher education (they're not the doctors or lawyers I keep hearing they are), and most COST the US more in entitlements than they put into the economy. There won't be any massive outpouring of sympathy if they are deported.

I think its the media's portrayal of DACA that was being dishonest. They portrayed them as kids when Obama signed DACA, which if you look at the statistics, thats not true. Most DACA recipients were already adults, when obama signed DACA into existance as you stated.

Its just the morons in the DNC decided to use the media's portrayal of DACA recipients to fire up its progressive left, and it backfired because anyone who has a brain can figure out that the child/kid/teenager narrative is false on statistics alone. Its unfortunate now that now everyone thinks the DACA participants are a bunch of liars, when it was the media and politicians tried to portray DACA participants as victims. It is a self fullfilling prophecy thanks to the media and the progressive left.

I'm a staunch supporter for tough immigration laws, but I do feel bad for the DACA participants. I don't think any of them signed up for this type of attention a few years back.

 

[LandCruiser]

I feel bad for the DACA participants. I do realize they are humans and they did try to comply with the immigration law under the previous administration, unlike the other millions of free loading illegals. It is unfortunate that they have become political pawns, with no solution in sight for their plight.

They weren't compliant with any laws.

They were in violation of laws, and still are.

Obama just whipped out his pen and phone to draft an EO to ignore the law for a few years. This is the natural result of a president who chose to rule by executive order instead of leaving laws up to Congress.

 

[mrblah]

They weren't compliant with any laws.

They were in violation of laws, and still are.

Obama just whipped out his pen and phone to draft an EO to ignore the law for a few years. This is the natural result of a president who chose to rule by executive order instead of leaving laws up to Congress.

I agree with you, Obama had no right to EO DACA into existence, and Trump has every right to rescindle it.

I'm just pointing out that the DACA participants probably don't have a clue how the political system works in the US, and thought everything was gravy as long as they complied with DACA.... They have become political pawns, and I think thats unfortunate.

 

[Hepar]

most COST the US more in entitlements than they put into the economy. There won't be any massive outpouring of sympathy if they are deported.

I'm curious where you get your information about the costs related to DACA recipients.

DACA: Experts Predict Big Economic Consequences of Rescinding Program | Fortune

And you don't think there will be any impact on deporting 800,000 people who the majority don't speak their native language nor have any ties to the country they came from? Who's entire world and culture is American-based? Who are taking all of the steps to be contributing (as well as taxpaying) members of society?

I know that there are many on both sides of this issue, but I promise you that IF they deport DACA recipients, the outcry will be huge. I honestly feel that in today's political climate, the GOP would be smart to concede on this issue and make a stand someplace else. Especially in an election year.

 

[Hepar]

Obama just whipped out his pen and phone to draft an EO to ignore the law for a few years. This is the natural result of a president who chose to rule by executive order instead of leaving laws up to Congress.

Obama had 276 EO's in his 8 years. If the current President is in office for 8 years and holds the same rate as his first year, he would end up with 464.

Just to add, Obama had a per year EO average of 34.6. Which was the lowest average since Grover Cleveland.

 

[ndcent]

^Psh, facts that buck the narrative are fake news. Killary, man. Think about it.

 

[Bodhi327]

We will shut down again

Hate trump or not at least they are trying to solve some issues and might actually get something done. The hatred for him might turn out to be a good thing.