Shut down.......

[2flyfishin]

I'm curious where you get your information about the costs related to DACA recipients.

DACA: Experts Predict Big Economic Consequences of Rescinding Program | Fortune

And you don't think there will be any impact on deporting 800,000 people who the majority don't speak their native language nor have any ties to the country they came from? Who's entire world and culture is American-based? Who are taking all of the steps to be contributing (as well as taxpaying) members of society?

I know that there are many on both sides of this issue, but I promise you that IF they deport DACA recipients, the outcry will be huge. I honestly feel that in today's political climate, the GOP would be smart to concede on this issue and make a stand someplace else. Especially in an election year.

That article in fortune magazine cites a study from the CATO. I guess the Koch brothers don’t want to lose all their cheap labor. Lol.

 

[AKmoney]

B) Actually compromise and trade temporary amnesty for DACA recipients in exchange for Wall Funding or ending trade migration or a points system etc. This kind of trade could be claimed as a win by both sides.

This is what needs to happen. The compassionate conservative in me thinks it's pretty inhumane to round 'em all up and give them the boot with nowhere to go. We should provide them with a path to citizenship and defined timeline. Call it two years, call it four years, whatever. Hold them accountable to it. If they miss the deadline, they're out. No exceptions.

At the same time, we need relief for the US taxpayer. Whatever benefit programs are in place now need to be gradually phased out, perhaps over the same timeline. Any privileges such as college scholarships or lowered tuition needs to stop, *yesterday*. And finally, Build The Wall. Nobody else gets in unless they follow the rules.

 

[4Reak Show]

This country has ZERO 'moral high ground.' Not only is it completely bankrupt with no hope of going back to the 'good old days,' the government and its foreign policy has been completely bought and paid for. The war on terror is not a war on terror, it's a war for Greater Israel. There is no NK threat of nuclear war because NK has no nukes, and the fat man is nothing more than a puppet - just like the rest of them. All the world's a stage. If you turn off all the fake media (EVERYTHING on TV and Radio), you'll find the world isn't nearly as terrifying as 'they' will have you believe.



I'm so sick of the red vs blue, phony paradigm. People are controlled and manipulated via Hegelian dialectic to push agendas. Once you can see it, you'll never be able to ignore it.

Another Flat Earther here I presume .....

hold on man, let me get my tin foil hat :thumb:

Cracks me up. Anytime people like [MENTION=149475]lucky7[/MENTION] and I try and shed some light on the meaninglessness of all this political BS, ya'll can't accept that as even a minute possibility and simply shrug it off without the slightest portion of thought. I get it, it pains most people to hear that these stupid ass stories you follow so closely are a total charade, but they are.

Place the importance on them if you'd like, but insulting a person for their beliefs without any justification to disprove them is immature, arrogant and ignorant.



I take it you think there's a giant man with a beard pushing buttons behind a desk deciding who gets a volcano or tsunami this week too right? See. Words can hurt.

 

[mrblah]

Cracks me up. Anytime people like [MENTION=149475]lucky7[/MENTION] and I try and shed some light on the meaninglessness of all this political BS, ya'll can't accept that as even a minute possibility and simply shrug it off without the slightest portion of thought. I get it, it pains most people to hear that these stupid ass stories you follow so closely are a total charade, but they are.

Place the importance on them if you'd like, but insulting a person for their beliefs without any justification to disprove them is immature, arrogant and ignorant.



I take it you think there's a giant man with a beard pushing buttons behind a desk deciding who gets a volcano or tsunami this week too right? See. Words can hurt.

So Lucky7 says North Korea doesn't have nukes, and that the dictator of north korea is a puppet, and that the whole war on terror is an israeli plot for world domination. Then you are telling us that we are immature, arrogant, and ignorant because we can't disprove Lucky7's theory, when he didn't even quantify what he said in the first place.

Your argument just like Lucky7 about volcanos, tsunamis, and bearded men absolutely makes no sense. Sure keep posting about this nonsense, but don't get all butthurt when you get called out for it.

BTW, I have no problems people disagreeing with my viewpoints, I don't agree with half the people who post in these political threads and they probably don't agree with me, but that doesn't mean we can't have a political discussion on the policies. Now if you want to come into these threads and just troll...don't get all butthurt when you get caught trolling..

 

[simple]

So Lucky7 says North Korea doesn't have nukes, and that the dictator of north korea is a puppet, and that the whole war on terror is an israeli plot for world domination. Then you are telling us that we are immature, arrogant, and ignorant because we can't disprove Lucky7's theory, when he didn't even quantify what he said in the first place.

Your argument just like Lucky7 about volcanos, tsunamis, and bearded men absolutely makes no sense. Sure keep posting about this nonsense, but don't get all butthurt when you get called out for it.

BTW, I have no problems people disagreeing with my viewpoints, I don't agree with half the people who post in these political threads and they probably don't agree with me, but that doesn't mean we can't have a political discussion on the policies. Now if you want to come into these threads and just troll...don't get all butthurt when you get caught trolling..

Agree whole heartedly.

 

[mrblah]

Obama had 276 EO's in his 8 years. If the current President is in office for 8 years and holds the same rate as his first year, he would end up with 464.

Just to add, Obama had a per year EO average of 34.6. Which was the lowest average since Grover Cleveland.

I don't think the issue at hand is the number of EO's signed.

It just turns out that some of Obama's EO's have turned into hot potatoes/land mines, and that might not have been the case, if the previous administration let congress decide on the more pressing issues like healthcare and immigration. Honestly, trump might not even be in office today, if the previous administration choose to go a different route on those issues...but who knows...I'm just speculating

 

[LandCruiser]

I don't think the issue at hand is the number of EO's signed.

It just turns out that some of Obama's EO's have turned into hot potatoes/land mines, and that might not have been the case, if the previous administration let congress decide on the more pressing issues like healthcare and immigration. Honestly, trump might not even be in office today, if the previous administration choose to go a different route on those issues...but who knows...I'm just speculating

It's like saying you only robbed a bank twice, but stole 2 billion dollars.

 

[ndcent]

I don't think the issue at hand is the number of EO's signed.

It just turns out that some of Obama's EO's have turned into hot potatoes/land mines, and that might not have been the case, if the previous administration let congress decide on the more pressing issues like healthcare and immigration. Honestly, trump might not even be in office today, if the previous administration choose to go a different route on those issues...but who knows...I'm just speculating

Proved wrong? Just move the goal posts! Works every time.

 

[ndcent]

This is what needs to happen. The compassionate conservative in me thinks it's pretty inhumane to round 'em all up and give them the boot with nowhere to go. We should provide them with a path to citizenship and defined timeline. Call it two years, call it four years, whatever. Hold them accountable to it. If they miss the deadline, they're out. No exceptions.

At the same time, we need relief for the US taxpayer. Whatever benefit programs are in place now need to be gradually phased out, perhaps over the same timeline. Any privileges such as college scholarships or lowered tuition needs to stop, *yesterday*. And finally, Build The Wall. Nobody else gets in unless they follow the rules.

While illegal border crossings are at a 40 year low is a great time to build a bigly beautiful wall for Americans to pay for. Makes stable genius kinda sense that only cryin losers wouldn’t support. Pass the Diet Coke!

 

[lucky7]

So Lucky7 says North Korea doesn't have nukes, and that the dictator of north korea is a puppet, and that the whole war on terror is an israeli plot for world domination. Then you are telling us that we are immature, arrogant, and ignorant because we can't disprove Lucky7's theory, when he didn't even quantify what he said in the first place.

Your argument just like Lucky7 about volcanos, tsunamis, and bearded men absolutely makes no sense. Sure keep posting about this nonsense, but don't get all butthurt when you get called out for it.

BTW, I have no problems people disagreeing with my viewpoints, I don't agree with half the people who post in these political threads and they probably don't agree with me, but that doesn't mean we can't have a political discussion on the policies. Now if you want to come into these threads and just troll...don't get all butthurt when you get caught trolling..

I don't care what other people think at this point, I've been trying to figure this shit out for 7 years.


You've likely seen every one of these countries on your tell-lie-vision over the last 10+ years. You were probably told that 'we the people' need to go there to 1) spread democracy [regime change]. 2) 'fight terrorists' [install central bank and maintain petrodollar].

According to the founding father of Zionism Theodore Herzl, “the area of the Jewish State stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.” According to Rabbi Fischmann, “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.”

https://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

If we go backwards on the timeline, the catalyst was 9/11. The perpetrators were 'neocons' in DC, Mossad and the 'useful idiots' [Saudis]. BTW, the biggest mossad spy ring in history was discovered in NYC before, during and after the 9/11 attacks. They were rounded up and deported without a murmur from 'news' authorities. There were the 'dancing israelis,' WTC7 and Larry Silverstein, WMD' in Iraq, Big Bad Bin Laden in a cave in Afghanistan - ignore that the muslims were nearly successful in eradicating the poppy (muslims hate the stuff, as they should).

Trump, the most 'pro israel president ever' has committed how many billions of taxpayer, I mean stolen dollars from US citizens to Israel? The United States has zero reason to be in the ME - it never did.

You can find plenty of quotes from Bibi the terrorist Netanyahu that 9/11 was good for Israel... There are so many red flags it makes your head spin.




I know this is all over the place and probably doesn't make much sense. I just rolled out of bed and don't have a whole lot of time. The reality is that everything we're told is a load of shit thrown down from the overlords above. I grew up catholic and very conservative. I always voted red and was part of the charade. It's time consuming and energy depleting. This last time around I didn't bother. I have no faith in the system, I've done too much research to believe in fairytales any longer.


Someone asked in another thread and I forgot to respond, but no, the earth isn't flat. That's absurd. Interesting rabbit hole, no doubt, but creates more questions than answers. Interestingly enough one of those made-for-TV, fake scientists did say that the world wasn't round, it is indeed, 'pear-shaped.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTOE4Ar0Dfo

Turns out that almost all of those pictures of the earth are just artistic renderings based on a bunch of data. I'm a camera guy, I want a real photograph. My mind isn't made up on anything and I'm genuinely curious.






One last thought. My mind is constantly changing as I find new information and ideas. The more new things you find, the more confusing things get. I totally understand why people think I'm nuts - I've been looking into as many things as possible since I saw Ron Paul explaining the monetary system in 2011. The only thing I can say for certain is that nothing is real. I can't really put it into words any better than that, but I can see and feel it.

 

[4Reak Show]

So Lucky7 says North Korea doesn't have nukes, and that the dictator of north korea is a puppet, and that the whole war on terror is an israeli plot for world domination. Then you are telling us that we are immature, arrogant, and ignorant because we can't disprove Lucky7's theory, when he didn't even quantify what he said in the first place.

Your argument just like Lucky7 about volcanos, tsunamis, and bearded men absolutely makes no sense. Sure keep posting about this nonsense, but don't get all butthurt when you get called out for it.

BTW, I have no problems people disagreeing with my viewpoints, I don't agree with half the people who post in these political threads and they probably don't agree with me, but that doesn't mean we can't have a political discussion on the policies. Now if you want to come into these threads and just troll...don't get all butthurt when you get caught trolling..

All you did was tell the series of events that occurred and offered no data to disprove [MENTION=149475]lucky7[/MENTION] and just called him a crack pot. Your comprehension skills are astounding.

I forgot to add about the NK nukes... Wasn't there another country that had WMD's...? Oh yeah it was Iraq. We invaded, took over, over thru their dictator and found NOTHING. Of course it was way too convenient that 9/11 happened which spurred a massive scare tactic upon the Middle East so no American really cared we just wanted "revenge." But of course that was a guy wearing a red tie who did all that so you'll block that piece of history out even tho it's repeating itself with a new enemy. For every inch of proof we had for Iraqs weapons we've still never found anything....

BTW these discussions are only here to make us feel important and to validate our already clouded opinions. We mean nothing to the powers that be and are all pawns. Thinking this forum or anything you say makes a damn bit of difference besides making you feel good is hilarious.

And there's no laws against trolling. So there.

 

[Hepar]

I don't think the issue at hand is the number of EO's signed.

It just turns out that some of Obama's EO's have turned into hot potatoes/land mines, and that might not have been the case, if the previous administration let congress decide on the more pressing issues like healthcare and immigration. Honestly, trump might not even be in office today, if the previous administration choose to go a different route on those issues...but who knows...I'm just speculating

Ah! Now that is a completely valid and debatable point. Which is exactly why I made the comment I did. When you say things like, "This is the natural result of a president who chose to rule by executive order instead of leaving laws up to Congress." you are saying that all he did was sign executive orders. Which is a VERY common narrative in regards to that administration. And what I dislike (on top of being wrong) is that it paints things with very broad strokes. If you want to get into the meat of something and have a tangible conversation about it, you need to paint with fine strokes. By saying something like you did on how it's not the number, but the specific EO's, that then potentially leads to an interesting conversation. Because I can response to that with a simple question like, "What specific EO's are you unhappy with?" And you should have a specific answer if that's your statement. Then there is opportunity for me to discuss points on agreement or disagreement.

It is far too common these days when someone has issues to just make a broad generalization about it (and that goes far beyond the political spectrum). I believe it makes it easier for that person to discount any counterpoint because there are few specifics. As well as it's just lazy thinking.

Am I right? Like your election results comment, who knows. But I do know it's something I can debate about.

 

[Hepar]

While illegal border crossings are at a 40 year low is a great time to build a bigly beautiful wall for Americans to pay for. Makes stable genius kinda sense that only cryin losers wouldn’t support. Pass the Diet Coke!

I think that would be my number one question for any wall supporter. Is how do you think all of these illegal immigrants are getting into the country? Because the vast majority aren't coming across areas that they wouldn't if there was a wall there.

 

[mrblah]

Ah! Now that is a completely valid and debatable point. Which is exactly why I made the comment I did. When you say things like, "This is the natural result of a president who chose to rule by executive order instead of leaving laws up to Congress." you are saying that all he did was sign executive orders. Which is a VERY common narrative in regards to that administration. And what I dislike (on top of being wrong) is that it paints things with very broad strokes. If you want to get into the meat of something and have a tangible conversation about it, you need to paint with fine strokes. By saying something like you did on how it's not the number, but the specific EO's, that then potentially leads to an interesting conversation. Because I can response to that with a simple question like, "What specific EO's are you unhappy with?" And you should have a specific answer if that's your statement. Then there is opportunity for me to discuss points on agreement or disagreement.

It is far too common these days when someone has issues to just make a broad generalization about it (and that goes far beyond the political spectrum). I believe it makes it easier for that person to discount any counterpoint because there are few specifics. As well as it's just lazy thinking.

Am I right? Like your election results comment, who knows. But I do know it's something I can debate about.

Totally agree with you, you got me there that I was making generalizations without going into specifics. I like to make broad statements before going to details mainly because I don't want to waste my time with the trolls (not you), as you can see by some of the posts before yours.

 

[mrblah]

I think that would be my number one question for any wall supporter. Is how do you think all of these illegal immigrants are getting into the country? Because the vast majority aren't coming across areas that they wouldn't if there was a wall there.

I'm not a fan of the wall either mainly because it's more symbolic in nature and a huge waste of money. The problem is trump made promises during the campaign trail and now has to eat what he said. I think he''s gonna play it like this....he's gonna push for a wall that won't be funded and then blame the Democrats so that way he looks like he won....its all about publue perception

 

[RunninInGA]

I think that would be my number one question for any wall supporter. Is how do you think all of these illegal immigrants are getting into the country? Because the vast majority aren't coming across areas that they wouldn't if there was a wall there.

Genuine questions:
1. How are they getting here?
2. How do you stop them from illegally entering at that particular point?

 

[mrblah]

Genuine questions:
1. How are they getting here?
2. How do you stop them from illegally entering at that particular point?

In San diego, they tend to overstay their visas

 

[Hepar]

Totally agree with you, you got me there that I was making generalizations without going into specifics. I like to make broad statements before going to details mainly because I don't want to waste my time with the trolls (not you), as you can see by some of the posts before yours.

I wasn't referring to you on the generalization part. It was to the previous comment where my original response on EO numbers came from.

I'm not a fan of the wall either mainly because it's more symbolic in nature and a huge waste of money. The problem is trump made promises during the campaign trail and now has to eat what he said. I think he''s gonna play it like this....he's gonna push for a wall that won't be funded and then blame the Democrats so that way he looks like he won....its all about publue perception

Completely agree that it is far more of a symbol than anything. Just listened to a good podcast today. It's short. I'll link it below.

Genuine questions:
1. How are they getting here?
2. How do you stop them from illegally entering at that particular point?

1. The majority come across legally and overstay their visas. As far as border crossings, the majority there are smuggled across actually border crossing points. Building a giant wall outside of any populated areas will have far more impact on local wildlife than any sort of immigration numbers.

2. If you really want to make more of a dent, you put the majority of that money towards increase border security at those crossing points. Specifically, I really can't say. You would have to ask someone in the field for more specifics.


As I stated above, I listened to an interesting podcast today. Yes, it's from the NY Times, but it is a very neutral view (considering) and isn't overly slanted towards one side or another. Just some good points to think about.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736?mt=2&i=1000400503250

 

[Gunslinger-13]

Genuine questions:
1. How are they getting here?
2. How do you stop them from illegally entering at that particular point?

1) A lot of ways.
2) You don't have to stop them at a specific location. To stop them from getting here we need to punish people who employ them illegally and give them a reason to want to come here. Punish them with massive fines and prison time.

Stop people employing illegals and you stop the flow of illegals.

It's rather simple, actually.

Democrats want them here to increase their voting base. Republicans want them here for cheap labor.

We need to end this shit show.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Genuine questions:
1. How are they getting here?
2. How do you stop them from illegally entering at that particular point?

They land on a plane and don't leave or they drive across the border legally and don't leave.