Sloppy Steering and Vibration at 60+

[Moist]

I've been having an issue with my 4runner where she starts to get very skittish starting at around 60. Either she reeally doesn't like I-80 or something's up.

Basically once you get up to 60 the steering wheel starts to vibrate, then around 65 ish a front end vibration shows up. This front end vibration varies in intensity and seems to come and go, you can feel it in the steering wheel and floor and the front of the car starts to wander around while pulling right.
It gets worse until about 70 where it peaks and the front end feels loose and it starts jerking around unpredictably (especially while turning left it seems), before calming down past 75+ and remaining as a wobble and slight right pull.

I have jacked the vehicle up to see if there was anything was loose in the steering system/suspension only a very slight side to side motion in the FR wheel. However it was incredibly minor, and I'm not sure if it would cause a vibration so severe.

On occasion I can hear a faint metal pinging when it gets really bad. But that hasn't happened in a long while.

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[riceandpho]

hows the alignment?

I just had my inner and outer tie rods replaced, feels like a new truck again.

also hows the upper and lower ball joints? the bushings in the control arms? a lot of combination comes to play.

 

[Moist]

hows the alignment?

I just had my inner and outer tie rods replaced, feels like a new truck again.

also hows the upper and lower ball joints? the bushings in the control arms? a lot of combination comes to play.

It had an alignment about 4,000 Miles ago when I completely destroyed a C/V axle and Joints. It did vibrate before then so it's not related to that mishap.

From what I've been told the tie rods ends are still good, although the slight side to side play in the FR wheel leads me to believe something might(???) be lose up there.

I think I tested for ball joints correctly, there is no play up and down on the front wheels when jacked up.

The upper control arms look good, Lower also do, there is a huge scuff on the FL side from the destroyed CV accident but I was told it was just a chunk of rust knocked off the surface and will have no influence on the car.

I did notice the sway bar bushings on the FR side are totally shot and rotting apart.
My power steering fluid also smells burnt and turned black.

One last thing to note I had American Racing rims and Toyo A/Ts installed recently. The Toyo's are a size larger than stock. I am pretty sure they balanced the tires. I'll be pissed if that's what it turns out to be, but least it's cheaper than suspension fixes.

Will grab some photos later today if I have time.

 

[MikeinNH67]

Best to check for loose parts with the car on the ground, key on but engine off. This lets you feel and listen for looseness when turning the wheel side to side up till it takes force to move it. Should be very little play with this slight movement. Is the shake exactly the same if you switch the front and back wheels?

 

[riceandpho]

tires and tire pressure might be the problem, I was loaned a 04 or earlier tacoma when my truck was in for all that work, once I hit 70, I felt the truck shake also, that tacoma had off road type of tire and different wheels, I just kept it under 70 on my way home from the shop.
Google Maps

It had an alignment about 4,000 Miles ago when I completely destroyed a C/V axle and Joints. It did vibrate before then so it's not related to that mishap.

From what I've been told the tie rods ends are still good, although the slight side to side play in the FR wheel leads me to believe something might(???) be lose up there.

I think I tested for ball joints correctly, there is no play up and down on the front wheels when jacked up.

The upper control arms look good, Lower also do, there is a huge scuff on the FL side from the destroyed CV accident but I was told it was just a chunk of rust knocked off the surface and will have no influence on the car.

I did notice the sway bar bushings on the FR side are totally shot and rotting apart.
My power steering fluid also smells burnt and turned black.

One last thing to note I had American Racing rims and Toyo A/Ts installed recently. The Toyo's are a size larger than stock. I am pretty sure they balanced the tires. I'll be pissed if that's what it turns out to be, but least it's cheaper than suspension fixes.

Will grab some photos later today if I have time.

 

[Moist]

Best to check for loose parts with the car on the ground, key on but engine off. This lets you feel and listen for looseness when turning the wheel side to side up till it takes force to move it. Should be very little play with this slight movement. Is the shake exactly the same if you switch the front and back wheels?

There is some disconnect between the steering wheel and steering, so a small amount of play.
Otherwise nothing seemed loose upfront.

Upon closer inspection the steering bar thing that connects the wheels to the steering wheel has some up and down play to it.

The inner tie rod end on the FL side is leaking something. Not sure what.

Unable to swap front and rear tires at the moment as I no longer have the space to in the parking garage. (Honda parked too close to me)

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[Moist]

tires and tire pressure might be the problem, I was loaned a 04 or earlier tacoma when my truck was in for all that work, once I hit 70, I felt the truck shake also, that tacoma had off road type of tire and different wheels, I just kept it under 70 on my way home from the shop.

Google Maps

That could well be it. I havent seen a speed limit for the tires.
The shop that installed the rims and tires said to keep the front and rear tires inflated to 55 psi any lower will cause tire damage. (They came inflated to 60)
I keep them around 50 and the tire says max of 50.

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[riceandpho]

That could well be it. I havent seen a speed limit for the tires.
The shop that installed the rims and tires said to keep the front and rear tires inflated to 55 psi any lower will cause tire damage. (They came inflated to 60)
I keep them around 50 and the tire says max of 50.

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depending on your tires, what size did you end up with?

it can be good to lower them to 34 psi if its not those LT tire.

 

[Jakeepoo3]

Is that leak grease or steering fluid? Hopefully ball joint grease. If not you may have seals going bad in your steering rack. That would also explain your contaminated, burnt fluid. Possibly aeration occurring within rack also. Would cause all sorts of steering issues. Are you having to add fluid occasionally? Hopefully that's not the issue, that sucks. For your other steering components you can check for excessive play at the bushings and joints carefully with a pry bar. Was the other CV axle replaced, that going bad could also cause those symptoms. Check at the joints for lateral side to side play. There should be none but you will have about an eighth inch of in, out play. I would first rule out the steering rack because that's a pretty in depth rack replacement or rebuild if you're into doing that kind of work. Very expensive part and a mechanic will charge the crap out of you. Hope it's something easy

 

[Jakeepoo3]

There is some disconnect between the steering wheel and steering, so a small amount of play.
Otherwise nothing seemed loose upfront.

Upon closer inspection the steering bar thing that connects the wheels to the steering wheel has some up and down play to it.

The inner tie rod end on the FL side is leaking something. Not sure what.

Unable to swap front and rear tires at the moment as I no longer have the space to in the parking garage. (Honda parked too close to me)

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You're pointing at the CV axle inner joint. The other boot is your inner tie rod joint. It looks like it's leaking from there. If that's steering fluid which I hope for you it's not the rack seals are going bad. That would explain your fluid issues also.

 

[Moist]

Is that leak grease or steering fluid? Hopefully ball joint grease. If not you may have seals going bad in your steering rack. That would also explain your contaminated, burnt fluid. Possibly aeration occurring within rack also. Would cause all sorts of steering issues. Are you having to add fluid occasionally? Hopefully that's not the issue, that sucks. For your other steering components you can check for excessive play at the bushings and joints carefully with a pry bar. Was the other CV axle replaced, that going bad could also cause those symptoms. Check at the joints for lateral side to side play. There should be none but you will have about an eighth inch of in, out play. I would first rule out the steering rack because that's a pretty in depth rack replacement or rebuild if you're into doing that kind of work. Very expensive part and a mechanic will charge the crap out of you. Hope it's something easy

I have to add fluid almost monthly. The power steering pump makes a hell of a lot of noise while idling.

Otherwise the other C/V joint was replaced about a year before this one from wear. The C/V I had replaced got hit by a chunk of broken road about the size of my head kicked up from a car in front of me while I was going 60 something, smacked the axle and destroyed it and took a chunk out of my skid plate.

I will check for lateral play later this week as it is midterm week and time is a bit tough right now :Thumb3:

 

[Jakeepoo3]

I have to add fluid almost monthly. The power steering pump makes a hell of a lot of noise while idling.

Otherwise the other C/V joint was replaced about a year before this one from wear. The C/V I had replaced got hit by a chunk of broken road about the size of my head kicked up from a car in front of me while I was going 60 something, smacked the axle and destroyed it and took a chunk out of my skid plate.

I will check for lateral play later this week as it is midterm week and time is a bit tough right now :Thumb3:

I hear you bud I remember working and paying my way through college, kind of haha. At least your skid plate did it's job! Sounds like rack bushings though.. hopefully not. Also check above the boot to make sure the leak isn't dripping from somewhere else. Possibly the high pressure feed or return line connections could leak. They're on the driver's side right by that boot. That would be simple and much nicer than bad rack seals.

 

[Moist]

depending on your tires, what size did you end up with?



it can be good to lower them to 34 psi if its not those LT tire.

Toyo open country a/t 265/65 R17 tires, I went out quick and dropped all 4 to 35 ish psi. Will return with results later.

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[ArthurKotb]

I would take the truck to a REALLY knowledgeable Toyota shop or else a Toyota dealership and have them give the front end a complete checkup. If you're having a lot of vibration then it's not going to get better and could get dangerous. You might want to even consider taking it to both places and get estimates from them. Have you rotated the front to rear (same side) to see if that makes any difference?

I don't know a lot about tires but those tire pressures sound very high. Max pressure for when you have a max load, otherwise you should use the pressure on the driver's door plate. I tow a 6500 lb. Airstream and I never go over 35 PSI. You want the footprint of the tire to make full contact with the road. Overinflated will keep only the center in contact and will cause the tire to wear out in the middle and you will lose traction because of the smaller footprint. Underinflated and the tire will have traction only on the outer edges, wearing out those first and also losing traction.

 

[MikeinNH67]

Losing P/S fluid and pump noise is not a good sign. Clean up the wet boot that covers the inner tie rod and see if it gets wet overnight without moving but it may take movement. I wouldn't be surprised if that boot was half full of P/S fluid. Been there multiple times on other cars, not yet for a Toyota though. If you have to replace the rack you also have to make sure the system is flushed really well or contamination will ruin the seals in the new one. You can get these in a rebuild. This is a pricey job if it's your issue.

 

[Moist]

tires and tire pressure might be the problem, I was loaned a 04 or earlier tacoma when my truck was in for all that work, once I hit 70, I felt the truck shake also, that tacoma had off road type of tire and different wheels, I just kept it under 70 on my way home from the shop.

Google Maps

It was almost all alliviated by dropping the psi to 35. This is the cause of the vibration.

Steering still has some play, (in fact more than i think is normal) and im going to update on tie rod situation soon. Just in case someone else has this issue down the line. In fact it may have brought forward a new issue: Steering clunks sometimes when turning (just does at random points while turning) and something makes a loud crunch when moving in reverse.

Thank you all for the help!

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[riceandpho]

It was almost all alliviated by dropping the psi to 35. This is the cause of the vibration.

Steering still has some play, (in fact more than i think is normal) and im going to update on tie rod situation soon. Just in case someone else has this issue down the line.

Thank you all for the help!

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drop it down to 34, do it when its a cold tire, hope you click the link of the google map, that was the truck that was loaned to me so I can be at home when they perform the work. I only live a few exits away, I didn't check the air pressure since it is not my vehicle. pretty sure it was high.

since they added so much air in your tires, pretty sure you were just bouncing everywhere, also you'll notice that the middle of the tire had more wear.

 

[MikeinNH67]

Steering clunks sometimes when turning (just does at random points while turning) and something makes a loud crunch when moving in reverse.

I'd check that steering shaft u-joint for this noise. It can feel/sound different at certain points of rotation because of the joint being angled.

I'd also check the u-joints on the rear driveshaft as they can clunk when going into gear. If one of those fails, especially the front one, it can become an expensive repair. Chock the wheels, put the car in neutral and check for play in both u-joints.

Glad to hear the bouncing is fixed.

 

[Piggity]

It was almost all alliviated by dropping the psi to 35. This is the cause of the vibration.

Steering still has some play, (in fact more than i think is normal) and im going to update on tie rod situation soon. Just in case someone else has this issue down the line. In fact it may have brought forward a new issue: Steering clunks sometimes when turning (just does at random points while turning) and something makes a loud crunch when moving in reverse.

Thank you all for the help!

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Replace your steering u-joint.

Also, you didn't say whether your American Racing wheels are hub-centric or not....this is one of the major reasons why you get vibrations even with brand new wheels and tires.

 

[Moist]

It was almost all alliviated by dropping the psi to 35. This is the cause of the vibration.

Steering still has some play, (in fact more than i think is normal) and im going to update on tie rod situation soon. Just in case someone else has this issue down the line. In fact it may have brought forward a new issue: Steering clunks sometimes when turning (just does at random points while turning) and something makes a loud crunch when moving in reverse.

Thank you all for the help!

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I regret to inform everybody it is not the tires. Tires at 35 psi make right pull more noticeable, and the shaking worse. It does not go away 75+.

However it does come and go more noticeably.
The first two runs i had reported zero vibration.

This one trip was particularly shaky. Steering would "dive" over bumps.


To answer some questions i beleive the american racing rims are lug centric, they dont fit like the old rims do. So i think theyre lug centric.





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