Slow slow acceleration!

[BobsTrail]

Slow??

When I drive my T4R I adjust my driving and expectations and I still really like it and I am glad I bought it 17 months ago. I bought it for off-raod ability and just deal with the city driving.

When I want a fun drive on-road, I borrow my son's Cadillac CTS. The T4R seems a bit rough after a CTS session, but it's still my favorite.

 

[JeremyB]

Given the conditions, I think the 4Runner turned out fine. The next logical step is a 6 speed or 8 speed and we'll surely see it for the 6th gen. We'll probably see direct injection that improves low end torque and possibly a slightly downsized engine (3.5L?).

I'm going to agree on a 'new' DI 3.5L (6GR-FSE?) that uses 87 octane. The 2GR-FSE equals the torque of the current 1GR-FE at low rpms and chainsaw murders it at higher rpms. I don't think the 'new' DI 3.5L will have any more 'around town' torque than the current 1GR-FE, but I think mating it with a 6 or 8 speed tranny will help it scoot better.

Should help fuel economy too. In an SAE paper, the A671E claims 1.6% increased fuel economy on the combined test over the A650E. 13% better fuel consumption while stopped (which they say makes up 10% of runtime).

In another SAE paper, the AB60E claims 2.75% increased fuel economy over the A750E (5th Gen tranny). Surprisingly, they only attribute 0.4% of the increase to adding another gear. The rest is gained from 'extended fuel-cut time, 'adoption of ATF warmer', 'reducing friction loss', 'expanding lock-up range', and 'torque converter'.

In a third SAE paper, the AA80E claims a 6.5% fuel economy improvement over the A761E. Just under half the improvement is due to the added gears. However, at this time, I think the 8-sp automatics have only been installed on Lexus vehicles. Maybe that’ll change soon.

 

[Hadelson]

I'm going to agree on a 'new' DI 3.5L (6GR-FSE?) that uses 87 octane. The 2GR-FSE equals the torque of the current 1GR-FE at low rpms and chainsaw murders it at higher rpms. I don't think the 'new' DI 3.5L will have any more 'around town' torque than the current 1GR-FE, but I think mating it with a 6 or 8 speed tranny will help it scoot better.

Should help fuel economy too. In an SAE paper, the A671E claims 1.6% increased fuel economy on the combined test over the A650E. 13% better fuel consumption while stopped (which they say makes up 10% of runtime).

In another SAE paper, the AB60E claims 2.75% increased fuel economy over the A750E (5th Gen tranny). Surprisingly, they only attribute 0.4% of the increase to adding another gear. The rest is gained from 'extended fuel-cut time, 'adoption of ATF warmer', 'reducing friction loss', 'expanding lock-up range', and 'torque converter'.

In a third SAE paper, the AA80E claims a 6.5% fuel economy improvement over the A761E. Just under half the improvement is due to the added gears. However, at this time, I think the 8-sp automatics have only been installed on Lexus vehicles. Maybe that’ll change soon.

I'm holding out for one of the Turbo Diesels used in T4R's overseas with a 6 Speed manual. For some reason, the USA is way behind in this area.

 

[gm4life]

I'm going to agree on a 'new' DI 3.5L (6GR-FSE?) that uses 87 octane. The 2GR-FSE equals the torque of the current 1GR-FE at low rpms and chainsaw murders it at higher rpms. I don't think the 'new' DI 3.5L will have any more 'around town' torque than the current 1GR-FE, but I think mating it with a 6 or 8 speed tranny will help it scoot better.

Should help fuel economy too. In an SAE paper, the A671E claims 1.6% increased fuel economy on the combined test over the A650E. 13% better fuel consumption while stopped (which they say makes up 10% of runtime).

In another SAE paper, the AB60E claims 2.75% increased fuel economy over the A750E (5th Gen tranny). Surprisingly, they only attribute 0.4% of the increase to adding another gear. The rest is gained from 'extended fuel-cut time, 'adoption of ATF warmer', 'reducing friction loss', 'expanding lock-up range', and 'torque converter'.

In a third SAE paper, the AA80E claims a 6.5% fuel economy improvement over the A761E. Just under half the improvement is due to the added gears. However, at this time, I think the 8-sp automatics have only been installed on Lexus vehicles. Maybe that’ll change soon.

I sure hope they don't go with a 3.5L from the next Camry/RX/ES/Venza etc. I realize the 4.0L is based off of the same engine but it is tuned for truck use. It is one of the many reasons why I like the 4Runner so much, it has pretty good low end tug due to the extra displacement. GM has tried shoving a car engine into the Enclave/Acadia/Traverse... Want to drive something slow? With no nuts off the line - try one of those. It is just one of the many reasons going with a 4Runner was so easy. It actually has an engine designed to be used in a truck. Sign me up for a 4.0L with DI!

I don't know why anyone would call a 4Runner slow... Try a 1977 Pontiac Bonneville Sedan with a 301 Pontiac V8 and a Turbo 400 and 135 break horsepower and I will tell you about slow. Great looking car just needed a 350 or a 400.

BTW I don't consider 0-60 in 7.7 seconds slow at all for a truck based six cylinder SUV that clocks in at over 4000 pounds I call it pretty quick. Then again if you are used to a Tundra with a 5.7 or my 3,400lb 2012 W-Body Impala LTZ with 300hp it sure will feel slow. I know it is tuned for fuel economy but give it some gas and they move just fine.

 

[4RBob]

Since the OP bought 2010, it is possible he could benefit from the transmission re-program TSB (if it wasn't already done). I had this done shortly after I bought my 2010 (bought new in 2010) and it made a big difference (mostly shifting at slower speeds).

Like others have said, you learn when and how much to gun it. It actually cruises at 80-85 better than my wife's '03 Sport V8. I do like the low end torque of her V8, but once you drive the new V6 for a while, you do get used to it and most will eventually like it. One complaint is the occasional lag when starting from a stop, especially when shifting from reverse to drive.

 

[JeremyB]

I sure hope they don't go with a 3.5L from the next Camry/RX/ES/Venza etc. I realize the 4.0L is based off of the same engine but it is tuned for truck use. It is one of the many reasons why I like the 4Runner so much, it has pretty good low end tug due to the extra displacement. GM has tried shoving a car engine into the Enclave/Acadia/Traverse... Want to drive something slow? With no nuts off the line - try one of those. It is just one of the many reasons going with a 4Runner was so easy. It actually has an engine designed to be used in a truck. Sign me up for a 4.0L with DI!

If the TIS charts for the 3.5 and 4.0 are correct, the 3.5 holds its own with the 4.0 on a ft-lb/L basis. The 'problem' of the current 3.5L is it simply smaller than the 4.0, thus down ~15% on torque during the meat of the powerband, even if it does quite well for being just 3.5L. A DI 3.5L should help quite a bit, although the 1GR-FSE is lacking below 2000rpm.

I've driven a 2012 rental Acadia (wider/taller/longer/heavier than a 4Runner)with the 3.6 LLT. It has better dyno stats than the 1GR-FE, although I can't find an actual chart to compare torque curves. One the one hand, the engine felt more anemic cruising than our 2014 4Runner, but I was in the Santa Fe area and was around 5,000-10,000 ft the whole extended weekend. However, when I wanted it to get up and go, it did so without hesitation. The 6-sp tranny was nice on the interstate. I was able to coax 25mpg out of it, whereas 20mpg is the best I can get out of the 4Runner, with similar driving strategies.

 

[Quentin]

If the TIS charts for the 3.5 and 4.0 are correct, the 3.5 holds its own with the 4.0 on a ft-lb/L basis. The 'problem' of the current 3.5L is it simply smaller than the 4.0, thus down ~15% on torque during the meat of the powerband, even if it doesn't quite well for being 3.5L. A DI 3.5L should help quite a bit, although the 1GR-FSE is lacking below 2000rpm.

I've driven a 2012 rental Acadia (wider/taller/longer/heavier than a 4Runner)with the 3.6 LLT. It has better dyno stats than the 1GR-FE, although I can't find an actual chart to compare torque curves. One the one hand, the engine felt more anemic cruising than our 2014 4Runner, but I was in the Santa Fe area and was around 5,000-10,000 ft the whole extended weekend. However, when I wanted it to get up and go, it did so without hesitation. The 6-sp tranny was nice on the interstate. I was able to coax 25mpg out of it, whereas 20mpg is the best I can get out of the 4Runner, with similar driving strategies.

Nice plots! The y axis scale is a little misleading at first glance, though. Mind plotting the power graphs as well?

 

[jrob]

Have any of you ever driven a first gen? my 5th gen is a damn rocket ship compared to my 87. Then my 350z is a rocket ship compared to both. And then my gsxr was a rocket ship compared to that. And when I ride in jet planes to and from work those feel pretty fast...
Sorry I wasn't sure if we were just randomly making ridiculous comparisons between vastly different pieces of machinery.

 

[JeremyB]

Nice plots! The y axis scale is a little misleading at first glance, though. Mind plotting the power graphs as well?

I'll post up the hp plot when I get home this evening. I like plotting torque more than hp as it is easier to see the % difference between engines because the y-axis has more resolution when plotting hp.

 

[diverscale]

I'll post up the hp plot when I get home this evening. I like plotting torque more than hp as it is easier to see the % difference between engines because the y-axis has more resolution when plotting hp.

Doesnt the 1GRFE make 270 HP with dual VVTI? Are those wheel torque or crank torque?

 

[JeremyB]

Doesnt the 1GRFE make 270 HP with dual VVTI? Are those wheel torque or crank torque?

The dyno for the 270hp version of the 1GR-FE hasn't leaked onto the internet yet. So, the 260hp version is the best I've got. Fairly certain the 270hp version has a very similar curve at low/mid rpms.

The charts are the crank numbers from TIS.

 

[pacho]

from my bitter experience, I learned the hard way(many times) when I was younger that you dont treat an SUV or truck like a sports car or you'll either rear-end someone(longer braking distance) or roll-over(changing lanes recklessly). a big SUV is a land yacht. eace:

 

[diverscale]

The dyno for the 270hp version of the 1GR-FE hasn't leaked onto the internet yet. So, the 260hp version is the best I've got. Fairly certain the 270hp version has a very similar curve at low/mid rpms.

The charts are the crank numbers from TIS.

Is this version of the 1GRFE dual-vvti? If so, we clearly see the VVTI acting-up at 3500rpm in the torque curve. I agree about resolution of HP and torque graphs, never thought of that before.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

If the TIS charts for the 3.5 and 4.0 are correct, the 3.5 holds its own with the 4.0 on a ft-lb/L basis. The 'problem' of the current 3.5L is it simply smaller than the 4.0, thus down ~15% on torque during the meat of the powerband, even if it does quite well for being just 3.5L. A DI 3.5L should help quite a bit, although the 1GR-FSE is lacking below 2000rpm.

I've driven a 2012 rental Acadia (wider/taller/longer/heavier than a 4Runner)with the 3.6 LLT. It has better dyno stats than the 1GR-FE, although I can't find an actual chart to compare torque curves. One the one hand, the engine felt more anemic cruising than our 2014 4Runner, but I was in the Santa Fe area and was around 5,000-10,000 ft the whole extended weekend. However, when I wanted it to get up and go, it did so without hesitation. The 6-sp tranny was nice on the interstate. I was able to coax 25mpg out of it, whereas 20mpg is the best I can get out of the 4Runner, with similar driving strategies.

This chart shows why the 2uz V8 in the 4th gen is so widely loved. It makes a lot of torque at low rpm and feels very responsive without having to rev it to 5000 rpm. Torque is what make a vehicle feel very responsive. The 2uz has good instant torque and requires very little throttle opening to get moving quickly.

 

[JeremyB]

Is this version of the 1GRFE dual-vvti? If so, we clearly see the VVTI acting-up at 3500rpm in the torque curve. I agree about resolution of HP and torque graphs, never thought of that before.

It's the FJ flavor of the 1GR. It has dual-vvti, but is missing 10hp for whatever reason (more constrictive exhaust system?).

 

[diverscale]

It's the FJ flavor of the 1GR. It has dual-vvti, but is missing 10hp for whatever reason (more constrictive exhaust system?).

Last time I read about that, the reason given was a chocked intake system that was causing a slight loss of HP on the fj.

Ours must be nearly identical to this one, only dropping slightly slower toward the last third of the torque curve due to a less restrictive intake system.

 

[1engineer]

This chart shows why the 2uz V8 in the 4th gen is so widely loved. It makes a lot of torque at low rpm and feels very responsive without having to rev it to 5000 rpm. Torque is what make a vehicle feel very responsive. The 2uz has good instant torque and requires very little throttle opening to get moving quickly.

Remember we all know that the 4th Gen was the most perfect vehicle ever made, with that burger tray and V8. We won't forget OK?

 

[Quentin]

Remember we all know that the 4th Gen was the most perfect vehicle ever made, with that burger tray and V8. We won't forget OK?

Who is going to make the 9/11 esque sticker?

2UZ-4th Gen
<< pic of 4th gen 4Runner with crying eagle in the background >>
9-11-09, Never Forget

Man, I wish I still had photoshop on my computer.

 

[OldSchool1959]

Tray Envy

Remember we all know that the 4th Gen was the most perfect vehicle ever made, with that burger tray and V8. We won't forget OK?

Whoa - hold up there.... the 4th Gen had a burger tray? I'd like a pic to confirm that before I go trade down from my 14 LTE for a burger tray havin'
V8 packin' 2009. Or, can I retrofit said tray into my 5th gen?

 

[1engineer]

Who is going to make the 9/11 esque sticker?

2UZ-4th Gen
<< pic of 4th gen 4Runner with crying eagle in the background >>
9-11-09, Never Forget

Man, I wish I still had photoshop on my computer.

Here you are [MENTION=48413]Quentin[/MENTION]: