KidVermicious
New member
Could do.
Sniv's Custom Long Travel Build
- Thread starter snivilous
- Start date
Could do.
ToyTec Lifts
New member
Shoot me a PM with your address and i'll mail you out some stickers
:cheers:
Dylan
:cheers:
Dylan
snivilous
Senior Member
Totally fake dimensions I just threw together. But I couldn't get to sleep :frusty: so what better to do than design suspension components
That image gets about 12" of travel.I keep looking at current designs, primarily in trophy trucks, and some of the current LT kits out there. I spend a lot of my time looking up different shocks too, right now I am really liking the looks of the Bilstein 9100 coilovers with internal bypasses. They are about $330/each which isn't bad considering I was looking at Fox and King and their coilovers run around $700-$800 I was looking at. Bilstein air bump stops are also only $170/each which isn't too bad either, and then Eibach springs look to be around $125 (set?).
I'm figuring I'll trade my 891s in for some land cruiser springs in the rear that will be softer so the back end won't jump around as much since I won't be working on the rear suspension at all. And if I add air bump stops in the rear and maybe switch over to remote reservoir shocks then hopefully the back end can handle a bit of high speed bumps. I could run a coilover with a secondary shock in front, but I'll have to run the numbers, I feel like that wouldn't be cheaper than a slightly fancier single coilover. And then ideally I would run air bump stops up front too. So overall that's running about $2k assuming fiberglass fenders are $500 and not counting metal costs, which shouldn't be much. And of course, the idea is to be modular so I can go as cheap or big as I want and it will still work fine, just limit the comfort/abuse it can take.
Hopefully tomorrow I can pull my tire off and take tons of photos and proper measurements and start really designing it.
snivilous
Senior Member
Suspension Links
Okay, boring post. I will compile all the shit I have been reading and links to what I find interesting in terms of suspension and IFS long travel. I feel like my head is going to explode from so much information I need to know to make a good design :boom:
Ultimate Goal: 12" Travel
BillaVista Tech Articles - found through Pirate4x4 where he used to write articles. Primarily coilover bible part 1 and 2 are of interest.
Barnes4WD - place to buy some stuff
Poly performance is recommended for buying shocks and stuff, they have a ton of gear
ADS shocks - free revalving for life is nice... and people claim they are really good for the price but the price actually isn't that great...
Heat treated chromoly heim ($50) - use for steering tie rod connection assuming I redesign my spindle? Don't want to use on upper or lower A arm to spindle joint since these are only good in compression and tension, don't want to put a moment on something not support at the end... Unless I go with having this on the top of the spindle so the A arm just has a bolt that bolts into this, so the upper A arm doesn't actually have a joint integral to it... heard mixed things about going that path and I don't really like the looks of that from a steering perspective... (example)
Race ready FK uniball kit (~$60+) - use for upper and lower A arm to spindle connections...but does welding the uniball cup risk deforming the cup so the ball won't fit?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Compilation of shit I've learned:
Shocks: cheapest dual rate reservoir coilovers are from Fox, poly performance has them at $261 a shock and free shipping. The next closest is Bilstein at $330 and then it just goes up.
Bypass shocks: Not happening anytime soon, cheapest bypass shock is over $500.
Air bump stops: Fox, bilstein, and radflo are all within a $1 and ~$170 for one bump stop. Fox has free shipping. A bump stop can looks to run $35. The issue is I need to get the bump stop as far from the truck as I can so it only engages at the very end of travel, and with it close to the rotation axis of the LCA there is hardly any travel so when it engages it wouldn't be for just the end of travel. It looks like people get a 30-45 degree bump can and angle it out to about the halfway mark of the LCA. One guy with a taco mentioned he was running 1.25" travel on the bump stop. Lowest travel you can buy is 2", but they are all the same bump stops (2", 3", 4", etc.) just there is a spacer that comes preset (or you can rebuild to your own spec) to adjust what it compresses to. The taco guy was running 85psi gas.
Coils: I'm running Eibach and like them, other people recommend them too and they are easy to come by with tons of options.
The downside with Fox shocks is to have a triple spring rate setup with a helper coil you need to remove the reservoir since the helper coil can only be slid on from the top of the shock, not the bottom. The benefit of a helper coil is that it has a very low spring rate (under 5lbs/in) and it just keeps the primary and tender coils from rattling around when at full droop because it exerts just enough force to keep them seated down. You can run without a helper coil, but you ideally would want the coils free length to be slightly longer than the shock so they don't jump around at full droop (similar to how most coilovers are). Only real downside is you need a spring compressor to take the coils off, with a helper spring you can easily compress it by hand so you can take the coils off by compressing the helper spring and then the primary and tender springs are at rest. To take apart the Fox shock you need to bleed the lines, which would be a pain especially if I'll be time constrained already from doing this all in a month. I could always run an emulsion shock, but those aren't good for high speed and it sounds like they are barely good for rock crawling so don't want to go that way.
Uniballs/heims are frowned upon as the mounting method to the frame, people prefer bushings. I will probably go that route since it's cheaper, and as people have said, it gives the suspension to frame interface a bit of give.
The shocks should be as close as perpendicular to the LCA at full compression so there is minimal sine loss.
I will check the backspacing on my current rims, which if I LT I won't really care about my back spacing as far as clearance goes so if that's a non-issue I'll keep my current rims which I like and then can just run 33x12.50R15 tires.
Still need to figure out how long Tundra/T100 CVs are. I will eventually pull my tire and get all the dimensions I need of my IFS. I am planning on running a shock hoop and probably 10" or 8.5" travel shocks. I will design in the ability to run dual shocks as much as I can but won't actually include the hardware on the LCA or hoop to mount a secondary shock during the initial build, but it will be included in the design for when I get there if I want to. It's meant to be modular afterall. My primary concern right now is the spindle. I would like to replace it to make it beefier, but it could probably do the job fine as is. It's a very engineered part if you look at it. I may just buy new spindles and then cut them up (or just cut up my current ones) and then keep the mounting hardware and just add bracing and the mounting hardware for the uniballs.
Off the top of my head costs are looking like:
$261 x 2 shocks
$170 x 4 bump stops
$125 x 2 coils
$500 fenders
$100 metal
$60 x 4 uniballs
$50 x 2 heims
$100 miscellaneous
Total Assembled Cost: ~$2500
Double Wishbone with Fenders Cost: ~$1000
This is about where I want to be and what I expected. Again, if I want bad performance and it just to work until I get more money, I can run my current coilovers and just not push the LT offroad much (which it'll be winter for the most part anyhow), and then the costs of the LT setup will be $1000. It's really the long travel coilovers and air bumps that kill it.
Time for lab, maybe that post will help someone else planning on doing LT IFS someday and totally lost on where to start... The sun is on the horizon and I'm beginning to understand what I need to do finally
Okay, boring post. I will compile all the shit I have been reading and links to what I find interesting in terms of suspension and IFS long travel. I feel like my head is going to explode from so much information I need to know to make a good design :boom:
Ultimate Goal: 12" Travel
BillaVista Tech Articles - found through Pirate4x4 where he used to write articles. Primarily coilover bible part 1 and 2 are of interest.
Barnes4WD - place to buy some stuff
Poly performance is recommended for buying shocks and stuff, they have a ton of gear
ADS shocks - free revalving for life is nice... and people claim they are really good for the price but the price actually isn't that great...
Heat treated chromoly heim ($50) - use for steering tie rod connection assuming I redesign my spindle? Don't want to use on upper or lower A arm to spindle joint since these are only good in compression and tension, don't want to put a moment on something not support at the end... Unless I go with having this on the top of the spindle so the A arm just has a bolt that bolts into this, so the upper A arm doesn't actually have a joint integral to it... heard mixed things about going that path and I don't really like the looks of that from a steering perspective... (example)
Race ready FK uniball kit (~$60+) - use for upper and lower A arm to spindle connections...but does welding the uniball cup risk deforming the cup so the ball won't fit?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Compilation of shit I've learned:
Shocks: cheapest dual rate reservoir coilovers are from Fox, poly performance has them at $261 a shock and free shipping. The next closest is Bilstein at $330 and then it just goes up.
Bypass shocks: Not happening anytime soon, cheapest bypass shock is over $500.
Air bump stops: Fox, bilstein, and radflo are all within a $1 and ~$170 for one bump stop. Fox has free shipping. A bump stop can looks to run $35. The issue is I need to get the bump stop as far from the truck as I can so it only engages at the very end of travel, and with it close to the rotation axis of the LCA there is hardly any travel so when it engages it wouldn't be for just the end of travel. It looks like people get a 30-45 degree bump can and angle it out to about the halfway mark of the LCA. One guy with a taco mentioned he was running 1.25" travel on the bump stop. Lowest travel you can buy is 2", but they are all the same bump stops (2", 3", 4", etc.) just there is a spacer that comes preset (or you can rebuild to your own spec) to adjust what it compresses to. The taco guy was running 85psi gas.
Coils: I'm running Eibach and like them, other people recommend them too and they are easy to come by with tons of options.
The downside with Fox shocks is to have a triple spring rate setup with a helper coil you need to remove the reservoir since the helper coil can only be slid on from the top of the shock, not the bottom. The benefit of a helper coil is that it has a very low spring rate (under 5lbs/in) and it just keeps the primary and tender coils from rattling around when at full droop because it exerts just enough force to keep them seated down. You can run without a helper coil, but you ideally would want the coils free length to be slightly longer than the shock so they don't jump around at full droop (similar to how most coilovers are). Only real downside is you need a spring compressor to take the coils off, with a helper spring you can easily compress it by hand so you can take the coils off by compressing the helper spring and then the primary and tender springs are at rest. To take apart the Fox shock you need to bleed the lines, which would be a pain especially if I'll be time constrained already from doing this all in a month. I could always run an emulsion shock, but those aren't good for high speed and it sounds like they are barely good for rock crawling so don't want to go that way.
Uniballs/heims are frowned upon as the mounting method to the frame, people prefer bushings. I will probably go that route since it's cheaper, and as people have said, it gives the suspension to frame interface a bit of give.
The shocks should be as close as perpendicular to the LCA at full compression so there is minimal sine loss.
I will check the backspacing on my current rims, which if I LT I won't really care about my back spacing as far as clearance goes so if that's a non-issue I'll keep my current rims which I like and then can just run 33x12.50R15 tires.
Still need to figure out how long Tundra/T100 CVs are. I will eventually pull my tire and get all the dimensions I need of my IFS. I am planning on running a shock hoop and probably 10" or 8.5" travel shocks. I will design in the ability to run dual shocks as much as I can but won't actually include the hardware on the LCA or hoop to mount a secondary shock during the initial build, but it will be included in the design for when I get there if I want to. It's meant to be modular afterall. My primary concern right now is the spindle. I would like to replace it to make it beefier, but it could probably do the job fine as is. It's a very engineered part if you look at it. I may just buy new spindles and then cut them up (or just cut up my current ones) and then keep the mounting hardware and just add bracing and the mounting hardware for the uniballs.
Off the top of my head costs are looking like:
$261 x 2 shocks
$170 x 4 bump stops
$125 x 2 coils
$500 fenders
$100 metal
$60 x 4 uniballs
$50 x 2 heims
$100 miscellaneous
Total Assembled Cost: ~$2500
Double Wishbone with Fenders Cost: ~$1000
This is about where I want to be and what I expected. Again, if I want bad performance and it just to work until I get more money, I can run my current coilovers and just not push the LT offroad much (which it'll be winter for the most part anyhow), and then the costs of the LT setup will be $1000. It's really the long travel coilovers and air bumps that kill it.
Time for lab, maybe that post will help someone else planning on doing LT IFS someday and totally lost on where to start... The sun is on the horizon and I'm beginning to understand what I need to do finally
TCMach
New member
Kudos to you for going at this. You wouldn't catch me doing this haha. Then again I would probably put the same amount of time an effort into 3 link...someday...
I'll be watching this one for sure.
Also nice solidworks model. I started to learn it but then got access to NX8 so I went that route... its a monster :bat:
I'll be watching this one for sure.
Also nice solidworks model. I started to learn it but then got access to NX8 so I went that route... its a monster :bat:
snivilous
Senior Member
Wheeling report: Went mudding day before yesterday (Thursday night). Some girls had left a note on my buddies Cherokee saying they wanted to go mudding since they saw mud on it from a previous run (if only I parked on the main drag through campus to get attention too 
hwell: ). But he has a girlfriend so he sent them my way and about two weeks later it rained enough to get muddy. He came anyways since I was hesitant to go out alone, and since it's more fun when he comes and we can harass each other over the CB. My roommate actually came too in his VW V8 Touareg. This was literally his first time on dirt ever I believe, let alone mudding/offroading. He did surprisingly well.
The one photo I took:
My roommate is a photographer though so brought his camera out so we got a few good pictures too:
Turned out three girls wanted to come, all roommates, all super hot :eyebrows: And I took one of them out on a date the next night :thumb: Can't beat prerunning (or as close as I can get now) for an hour and a half to Mount Logan as a date
Don't have any pictures from the date :doh: Gonna go pick up some rims for the Jeep since his got chewed up. Might go offroading tomorrow since I know the girls wanted to, or maybe just go on another date to the sweet make-out ridge Gotta love girls where 4Lo turns them on :banana:
hwell: ). But he has a girlfriend so he sent them my way and about two weeks later it rained enough to get muddy. He came anyways since I was hesitant to go out alone, and since it's more fun when he comes and we can harass each other over the CB. My roommate actually came too in his VW V8 Touareg. This was literally his first time on dirt ever I believe, let alone mudding/offroading. He did surprisingly well.The one photo I took:
My roommate is a photographer though so brought his camera out so we got a few good pictures too:
Turned out three girls wanted to come, all roommates, all super hot :eyebrows: And I took one of them out on a date the next night :thumb: Can't beat prerunning (or as close as I can get now) for an hour and a half to Mount Logan as a date
Don't have any pictures from the date :doh: Gonna go pick up some rims for the Jeep since his got chewed up. Might go offroading tomorrow since I know the girls wanted to, or maybe just go on another date to the sweet make-out ridge
Gotta love girls where 4Lo turns them on :banana:
Offroad_Medic
New member
You should have brought her on a second date down here for some crawling!
Dezert4Runner
Senior Member
I knew you were on the lookout for more stickers for your rig, and judging from your last pics I thought this one would be appropriate. It's a classic!
On another note, most guys who really put their LT to use spend more on coilovers and bypasses than their $2500 mass produced kit costs. Make sure to add a spindle gusset such as the one Total Chaos makes to your list. Limit straps aren't a bad idea either.
On another note, most guys who really put their LT to use spend more on coilovers and bypasses than their $2500 mass produced kit costs. Make sure to add a spindle gusset such as the one Total Chaos makes to your list. Limit straps aren't a bad idea either.
snivilous
Senior Member
Thank you [MENTION=44448]ToyTec Lifts[/MENTION]!
Awesome customer service as always! I got the stickers in last week but wasn't able to put them on until today. And that Eibach sticker looks even more crooked than it actually is since the Trail Ridge slanted white line is confusing...
Thanks again Dylan!
Haha I dig it! I couldn't find that sticker with the full female bent over so I didn't get it... I did buy some other stickers that were entertaining, I especially like this one:
And yea, I will definitely reinforce the spindle and do limit straps.
Awesome customer service as always! I got the stickers in last week but wasn't able to put them on until today. And that Eibach sticker looks even more crooked than it actually is since the Trail Ridge slanted white line is confusing...
Thanks again Dylan!
Haha I dig it! I couldn't find that sticker with the full female bent over so I didn't get it... I did buy some other stickers that were entertaining, I especially like this one:
And yea, I will definitely reinforce the spindle and do limit straps.
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snivilous
Senior Member
So I washed the truck in the first time in probably 6 weeks, nice to get all the pounds of mud off. Will also be nice to not get pin strips if we do any narrow trails this weekend.
Since it's clean and there is a 3 day weekend on campus, I'll probably take a tire off now and do as much measuring for the LT dimensions as I can.
I also emailed K&N asking for two stickers... they sent 18! Which is great and all, but I only put stickers on my quarter panel windows and anything more seems a little excessive haha. Luckily some of our other trucks and both of our stand up jet skis run K&Ns so they will have a home soon enough. Gotta love how all the companies send tons of stickers to decorate the truck when you send them pictures of their product on the truck and then pictures of the truck laying on it's side
And some notes, my drivers side differential side CV boot has a hole. It isn't very big as far as I know since there's not a ton of grease. In Moab it was the passenger side differential side, so I guess it makes sense the same boot failed on the other side. Since I don't drive a ton, and there's no sand here, I'll just leave the CV on until I can reboot it at home. Worse comes to worse I'll just buy a new half axle and install it on campus since I have all the tools to do it, but I don't think there will be any issue. Afterall, I wheeled a few days in Moab and then drove 400 miles with no issue when my other boot started leaking. I'll probably clean it with acetone and use gorilla snot to try and seal the hole in the meantime. And in other news, I realized when I put 33s on and the LT kit (which I think will lift me another inch since I will swap to LC coils) the truck will sit 3" taller than it does now (3" lift with 29" diameter tires). Pretty crazy increase :bolt:
Anyways, have a good weekend to anyone reading this and I will get to designing the prototype LT :biggrin2:
Since it's clean and there is a 3 day weekend on campus, I'll probably take a tire off now and do as much measuring for the LT dimensions as I can.
I also emailed K&N asking for two stickers... they sent 18! Which is great and all, but I only put stickers on my quarter panel windows and anything more seems a little excessive haha. Luckily some of our other trucks and both of our stand up jet skis run K&Ns so they will have a home soon enough. Gotta love how all the companies send tons of stickers to decorate the truck when you send them pictures of their product on the truck and then pictures of the truck laying on it's side
And some notes, my drivers side differential side CV boot has a hole. It isn't very big as far as I know since there's not a ton of grease. In Moab it was the passenger side differential side, so I guess it makes sense the same boot failed on the other side. Since I don't drive a ton, and there's no sand here, I'll just leave the CV on until I can reboot it at home. Worse comes to worse I'll just buy a new half axle and install it on campus since I have all the tools to do it, but I don't think there will be any issue. Afterall, I wheeled a few days in Moab and then drove 400 miles with no issue when my other boot started leaking. I'll probably clean it with acetone and use gorilla snot to try and seal the hole in the meantime. And in other news, I realized when I put 33s on and the LT kit (which I think will lift me another inch since I will swap to LC coils) the truck will sit 3" taller than it does now (3" lift with 29" diameter tires). Pretty crazy increase :bolt:
Anyways, have a good weekend to anyone reading this and I will get to designing the prototype LT :biggrin2:
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TheKorstjens
New member
Im so jealous of your lightbars. Truck looks great.
snivilous
Senior Member
So today I took a ton of measurements of the IFS with the wheel off, and still have a ton more to do...
Anyways, I decided to do a quick trip to High park which is the nearest offroading area and probably the most difficult around here, but it's nothing too intense or long. Still fun to get away from campus.
Also got an updated photo for my avatar:
And then a few photos since the sun was setting.
I need to bring my roommate up so he can take some photos with his fancy camera
Anyways, I decided to do a quick trip to High park which is the nearest offroading area and probably the most difficult around here, but it's nothing too intense or long. Still fun to get away from campus.
Also got an updated photo for my avatar:
And then a few photos since the sun was setting.
I need to bring my roommate up so he can take some photos with his fancy camera
snivilous
Senior Member
So a buddy and I went exploring Franklin Basin up Logan canyon yesterday, was the most fun wheeling all semester! There were so many puddles it was insane! Too bad I spent $5 in quarters a few days before cleaning it 
out: But I think mud looks sexier so it's not too much of a loss
There was also a rock that either I didn't see or the suspension lowered more than I expected and my bash plate took a HUGE beating.
The whole front end of the truck literally flew up in the air and we were probably going 5mph or so. I was thinking I should reinforce it with 1/4" plate, but then I thought about it and that's a horrible idea. If the bash plate hadn't bent like it did I think something more important like a cross member would of been bent--perfect example of why being stronger isn't always better. I'll just beat it out when I get home and add a rear mount (it broke off one of the rear mounts from the frame completely).
Previously I also mentioned the drivers CV differential boot had a hole in it. I checked it today and the boot was torn halfway around actually, so it was almost totally removed from one of the clamps. It's nice out so I figured what the hell and just went to Autozone and got a new one and replaced it in the parking lot.
When I was driving back from the trail last night the check engine light also came on, my engine oil and coolant levels were low so I filled them up at a gas station and no more light. I don't appear to be leaking anywhere or burning anything, and the coolant and oil haven't mixed so kinda weird.
out: But I think mud looks sexier so it's not too much of a loss
There was also a rock that either I didn't see or the suspension lowered more than I expected and my bash plate took a HUGE beating.
The whole front end of the truck literally flew up in the air and we were probably going 5mph or so. I was thinking I should reinforce it with 1/4" plate, but then I thought about it and that's a horrible idea. If the bash plate hadn't bent like it did I think something more important like a cross member would of been bent--perfect example of why being stronger isn't always better. I'll just beat it out when I get home and add a rear mount (it broke off one of the rear mounts from the frame completely).
Previously I also mentioned the drivers CV differential boot had a hole in it. I checked it today and the boot was torn halfway around actually, so it was almost totally removed from one of the clamps. It's nice out so I figured what the hell and just went to Autozone and got a new one and replaced it in the parking lot.
When I was driving back from the trail last night the check engine light also came on, my engine oil and coolant levels were low so I filled them up at a gas station and no more light. I don't appear to be leaking anywhere or burning anything, and the coolant and oil haven't mixed so kinda weird.
snivilous
Senior Member
What Gear Do I Carry?
I see a lot of threads about people asking what recovery gear or supplies they carry, here is my list with some pictures of how I stow it. I'll also add this post to the beginning of this thread and keep that updated. I carry all of this at all times, regardless if I'm on the trail or not. This list is essentially the result of not having a garage while living on campus. Eventually I will carry at least 5 gallons of fuel with me, but I don't want that in the cab so it will have to wait for roof/bumper mounting. Hope I didn't miss anything.
Fluids:
Engine Oil
Tranny Oil
Antifreeze (Coolant)
Brake Fluid
Degreaser
MAF Cleaner
Window Cleaner
Armor-All
Gojo
K&N Cleaning Kit
Lock-Tite
Silicon
Sunscreen
5 Gallons of Water
Electrical:
Crimp Set
Secondary Crimp Set
Small/Large Fuse Set
Electrical Tape
12 Gauge Wire
4 Gauge Wire
Multimeter
Jumper Cables
Miscellaneous:
Rags
Drill Motor
Drill Bits
Zip Ties
Tap and Dye Set
Rivet Set
5lb Hammer
Vice Grips
Full Tool Kit (English/Metric)
Tape Measure
35mm Socket (For CV Axle)
Random assortment of bolts, screws, spark plugs, switches, etc.
Ice Scraper
Duct Tape
Crow Bar
Portable Jump Start/Inverter/Compressor Unit
Rifle Cleaning Kit
Gloves
Recovery/Straps:
6' Tow Line
15' Tow Line
30' Snatch Strap
2x 10,000lb D-Ring
50' Rope
Ratchet Straps
Bungee Cords
9,000lb Winch
Hi-Lift
Survival:
Non-Parishable Brownies
Henry .22 Rifle (Collapses into stock and floats)
First Aid Kit
Sleeping Bag
Water Filter
Survival Knife
Lighters
Hatchet
Foldable Shovel
Fire Extinguisher
I see a lot of threads about people asking what recovery gear or supplies they carry, here is my list with some pictures of how I stow it. I'll also add this post to the beginning of this thread and keep that updated. I carry all of this at all times, regardless if I'm on the trail or not. This list is essentially the result of not having a garage while living on campus. Eventually I will carry at least 5 gallons of fuel with me, but I don't want that in the cab so it will have to wait for roof/bumper mounting. Hope I didn't miss anything.
Fluids:
Engine Oil
Tranny Oil
Antifreeze (Coolant)
Brake Fluid
Degreaser
MAF Cleaner
Window Cleaner
Armor-All
Gojo
K&N Cleaning Kit
Lock-Tite
Silicon
Sunscreen
5 Gallons of Water
Electrical:
Crimp Set
Secondary Crimp Set
Small/Large Fuse Set
Electrical Tape
12 Gauge Wire
4 Gauge Wire
Multimeter
Jumper Cables
Miscellaneous:
Rags
Drill Motor
Drill Bits
Zip Ties
Tap and Dye Set
Rivet Set
5lb Hammer
Vice Grips
Full Tool Kit (English/Metric)
Tape Measure
35mm Socket (For CV Axle)
Random assortment of bolts, screws, spark plugs, switches, etc.
Ice Scraper
Duct Tape
Crow Bar
Portable Jump Start/Inverter/Compressor Unit
Rifle Cleaning Kit
Gloves
Recovery/Straps:
6' Tow Line
15' Tow Line
30' Snatch Strap
2x 10,000lb D-Ring
50' Rope
Ratchet Straps
Bungee Cords
9,000lb Winch
Hi-Lift
Survival:
Non-Parishable Brownies
Henry .22 Rifle (Collapses into stock and floats)
First Aid Kit
Sleeping Bag
Water Filter
Survival Knife
Lighters
Hatchet
Foldable Shovel
Fire Extinguisher
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snivilous
Senior Member
More stickers and more LT!
So OTRATTW sent me some stickers since I'm running their Left Alley/LED Bar/Right Alley switches which are very nice by the way! They cost a bit ($16/each) but I think are worth it in the end due to the quality and nice finishing touch they add. Then today I got a three sticker pack from B&M Racing where I got my tranny cooler from and so far has worked great as well. As with the ton of K&N stickers I got, I've just been handing them away to people who want them and keeping some to stick on tool boxes or other toys back home. I think it's really cool that all the offroad companies I've contacted/contacted me (Toytec, K&N, OTRATTW, B&M Racing, and Bilstein has some stuff coming my way) have been so cool about sending me stickers! Obviously I've spent quite a bit of money on all their gear, but there's just something nice about them sending out something like stickers after I told them my story (and included pictures of their hardware on the truck).
Additionally, I got a "Toyoda" sticker that I saw on Facebook or something. I mounted it on the rear window in the left corner, and have a "Eat - Sleep - Wheel" sticker coming I'll mount in the right corner to make it even.
There's four other stickers from Amazon coming, but it's been like 2 weeks so I don't know what's up. Then the Bilstein ones as mentioned, and I will at some point contact Firestone and ARB and maybe Eibach...I don't know if Uniden or Firestick has any stickers but it's worth a shot. I already have more stickers on my windows than before they blew out haha.
LT TALK
So no progress I can show, this will be like the giant previous long travel post as I will write down ideas and things I've found for future reference and hopefully to help anyone who is thinking about long traveling or just interested in my finds and reads this.
Fenders: This was making me nervous and was probably the scariest thing as this is the cosmetic part. After looking around a lot, Glassworks Unlimited makes a lot of fenders and has a 4" flare 3" rise and sounds pretty good. There is a set meant specific to the 4Runner (if it differs from the Tacoma) and runs $425 / $375 on sale (not including shipping I don't think) and are hand laid which apparently is a big deal since the non-hand laid ones crack and break pretty fast. There is also a pretty good thread I found here: Glass fender comparison - Tacoma World Forums
96 to 03 Toyota 4 Runner Front Fenders
Bump stops: I covered this a bit previously, here's a thread about it: Hydro Bumps - Tacoma World Forums I think with the bump stop angled correctly it can easily be set to contact the lower control arm half way out, which means that 2" of bump is actually 4" of wheel travel which on 12" of travel is obviously 33% travel. Likewise, 1" bump travel is 17% being bumped at the wheel. I need to find figures on how much it should be, I feel like 20-25% is probably a good area to shoot for. I could always potentially extend the bump stop mounting can out further but that may require more frame modifications than I want (depends on the design, perhaps a single 1/4" plate welded to the frame won't require any gussets). I also don't know if there is a benefit of a larger bump stop stroke than a small one, if the overall % of wheel travel with the bump touching is the same...
Control Arm Design: TTORA Forum - View Single Post - Dual Sport 4runner
This post is very insightful. I talked to my dad and square tube bending would be a pain, and I'm not much a fan of bending tubing at all. I might just do as that guy did and have the upper control arm be a rectangular shape for ease of assembly. I am also thinking of making the lower control arm purely from 1/4" steel plating that then has cut outs to weld perpendicular pieces to it and will assemble like a puzzle. I am also thinking of having a frame of 2x2 0.125" wall square tubing and then plating that with steel. It would make for less cutting and easier assembly. Obviously all the steel sizing comes down to the engineering analysis, but a huge part of this project will be making it quick to assemble with in turn will make it easy to modify and adjust if need be. Like they say, Keep It Simple Stupid.
I also thought this link: Ballistic Fab's Prototype Long Travel Kit - Tacoma World Forums
Showed a very cool way of constructing a lower A arm. I will look into the cost of laser cutting my parts, but I doubt it'll be cheap. Still sweet looking though and I think I might have my coilovers mount through the lower A arm in a similar fashion.
Design: The upper A arm is pinned vertically so doesn't take any force vertically since it can't resist a moment. It only takes force horizontally towards the front/rear of the truck, and that is only to counteract the moment induced by the tire on the spindle. Because the upper control arm mounts so high up (around 4x I think), that is why it is substantially smaller than the lower control arm. The lower control arm has to resist the moment induced by the wheel too, though it is obviously proportionally greater since it's closer to the axle. Additionally, the lower arm will need to be designed so when the shock is at full compression and the truck's weight is impulsed onto it, it will not deflect. This is simply a moment about the frame mounting axis, where the wheel moves up as it is impulsed and the shock has to resist that while having the lower control arm not bend. Overall it is pretty simple calculations as far as the statics is concerned, and I think it should be fairly straightforward as far as the bending stress is concerned.
Rear: I am also getting increasingly worried about my rear geometry. It will have nowhere near the travel of the front if I am able to get 12" in the front. I may model up the rear geometry and see how far it goes before the stock 4-link binds and if I only need to reinforce the links to get good travel out of it. I don't plan to modify it more than softer springs and bump stops in the rear this winter since I won't be doing a lot with the suspension, but I'm still worried. I may go with a custom long arm or 3-link to get 14-16" of travel in the rear eventually if it all works out. Though this is just something I need to keep in mind, the rear will quickly become the limiting factor for the suspension.
Motor mounts: I also will eventually need to think about how my drivetrain is mounted. Again, this is of low priority until I start pushing the truck a lot harder once the suspension can handle it.
Hopefully this weekend I will start being diligent and get working on the designs.
So OTRATTW sent me some stickers since I'm running their Left Alley/LED Bar/Right Alley switches which are very nice by the way! They cost a bit ($16/each) but I think are worth it in the end due to the quality and nice finishing touch they add. Then today I got a three sticker pack from B&M Racing where I got my tranny cooler from and so far has worked great as well. As with the ton of K&N stickers I got, I've just been handing them away to people who want them and keeping some to stick on tool boxes or other toys back home. I think it's really cool that all the offroad companies I've contacted/contacted me (Toytec, K&N, OTRATTW, B&M Racing, and Bilstein has some stuff coming my way) have been so cool about sending me stickers! Obviously I've spent quite a bit of money on all their gear, but there's just something nice about them sending out something like stickers after I told them my story (and included pictures of their hardware on the truck).
Additionally, I got a "Toyoda" sticker that I saw on Facebook or something. I mounted it on the rear window in the left corner, and have a "Eat - Sleep - Wheel" sticker coming I'll mount in the right corner to make it even.
There's four other stickers from Amazon coming, but it's been like 2 weeks so I don't know what's up. Then the Bilstein ones as mentioned, and I will at some point contact Firestone and ARB and maybe Eibach...I don't know if Uniden or Firestick has any stickers but it's worth a shot. I already have more stickers on my windows than before they blew out haha.
LT TALK
So no progress I can show, this will be like the giant previous long travel post as I will write down ideas and things I've found for future reference and hopefully to help anyone who is thinking about long traveling or just interested in my finds and reads this.
Fenders: This was making me nervous and was probably the scariest thing as this is the cosmetic part. After looking around a lot, Glassworks Unlimited makes a lot of fenders and has a 4" flare 3" rise and sounds pretty good. There is a set meant specific to the 4Runner (if it differs from the Tacoma) and runs $425 / $375 on sale (not including shipping I don't think) and are hand laid which apparently is a big deal since the non-hand laid ones crack and break pretty fast. There is also a pretty good thread I found here: Glass fender comparison - Tacoma World Forums
96 to 03 Toyota 4 Runner Front Fenders
Bump stops: I covered this a bit previously, here's a thread about it: Hydro Bumps - Tacoma World Forums I think with the bump stop angled correctly it can easily be set to contact the lower control arm half way out, which means that 2" of bump is actually 4" of wheel travel which on 12" of travel is obviously 33% travel. Likewise, 1" bump travel is 17% being bumped at the wheel. I need to find figures on how much it should be, I feel like 20-25% is probably a good area to shoot for. I could always potentially extend the bump stop mounting can out further but that may require more frame modifications than I want (depends on the design, perhaps a single 1/4" plate welded to the frame won't require any gussets). I also don't know if there is a benefit of a larger bump stop stroke than a small one, if the overall % of wheel travel with the bump touching is the same...
Control Arm Design: TTORA Forum - View Single Post - Dual Sport 4runner
This post is very insightful. I talked to my dad and square tube bending would be a pain, and I'm not much a fan of bending tubing at all. I might just do as that guy did and have the upper control arm be a rectangular shape for ease of assembly. I am also thinking of making the lower control arm purely from 1/4" steel plating that then has cut outs to weld perpendicular pieces to it and will assemble like a puzzle. I am also thinking of having a frame of 2x2 0.125" wall square tubing and then plating that with steel. It would make for less cutting and easier assembly. Obviously all the steel sizing comes down to the engineering analysis, but a huge part of this project will be making it quick to assemble with in turn will make it easy to modify and adjust if need be. Like they say, Keep It Simple Stupid.
I also thought this link: Ballistic Fab's Prototype Long Travel Kit - Tacoma World Forums
Showed a very cool way of constructing a lower A arm. I will look into the cost of laser cutting my parts, but I doubt it'll be cheap. Still sweet looking though and I think I might have my coilovers mount through the lower A arm in a similar fashion.
Design: The upper A arm is pinned vertically so doesn't take any force vertically since it can't resist a moment. It only takes force horizontally towards the front/rear of the truck, and that is only to counteract the moment induced by the tire on the spindle. Because the upper control arm mounts so high up (around 4x I think), that is why it is substantially smaller than the lower control arm. The lower control arm has to resist the moment induced by the wheel too, though it is obviously proportionally greater since it's closer to the axle. Additionally, the lower arm will need to be designed so when the shock is at full compression and the truck's weight is impulsed onto it, it will not deflect. This is simply a moment about the frame mounting axis, where the wheel moves up as it is impulsed and the shock has to resist that while having the lower control arm not bend. Overall it is pretty simple calculations as far as the statics is concerned, and I think it should be fairly straightforward as far as the bending stress is concerned.
Rear: I am also getting increasingly worried about my rear geometry. It will have nowhere near the travel of the front if I am able to get 12" in the front. I may model up the rear geometry and see how far it goes before the stock 4-link binds and if I only need to reinforce the links to get good travel out of it. I don't plan to modify it more than softer springs and bump stops in the rear this winter since I won't be doing a lot with the suspension, but I'm still worried. I may go with a custom long arm or 3-link to get 14-16" of travel in the rear eventually if it all works out. Though this is just something I need to keep in mind, the rear will quickly become the limiting factor for the suspension.
Motor mounts: I also will eventually need to think about how my drivetrain is mounted. Again, this is of low priority until I start pushing the truck a lot harder once the suspension can handle it.
Hopefully this weekend I will start being diligent and get working on the designs.
Last edited:
snivilous
Senior Member
Wheeling/Breaking/LT
So as per the norm I went wheeling today. Up Providence and explored a side trail with my buddy and these girls with a Wrangler who we hadn't met before. It was an okay trail, nothing too exciting though. Providence canyons main trail is super annoying too since it's either normal speed and you get beat to shit or go slower than your grandma can crawl and have a smooth ride.
Somehow my CB microphone cord got flexed enough that it broke too, so I couldn't reply to anyone on the CB and the wires look fine so I don't know what is wrong with it. Kinda pisses me off too since this radio is less than 6 months old and the microphone cord wasn't even in a stressful angle. I might contact Uniden and see if they'll send me a new one.
Secondly, I somehow ran over a log or something I didn't see and it exploded and somehow cracked my passenger side mirror, flipped the mirror housing in (like it's meant to do), and then I had like 12" of log fling into the passenger seat. I have no idea how that happened, but I was afraid my window had exploded and luckily no one was riding with me...
And lastly, something is wrong with my rear axle. It's doing that floating type thing people talk about, where you can feel it shift from one side to the other. I haven't checked it, but I think it's weird if the panhard/track bar bushings just failed all of a sudden. Maybe my links are out of wack or something... Either way, I need to fix it before I can drive home since I drove it tonight around 50mph and I felt the axle shift a few times and it was way sketchy. I'm not super surprised though, my suspension takes a beating from going faster than the Jeeps go up the trails and then being used more offroad than onroad while in school and being used that way usually multiple times a week... I might beef up my rear links if I have time during Christmas break. At a minimum something needs to be done since the back end is already proving a choke point on the overall truck.
LT
I began actual design work of the long traveled independent front suspension design today. I read a lot on TacomaWorld in the LT section and came across Ballistic Fabrication. The plan is of now to use their weldable 2.6" bushing for the LCA to frame mount, and then use a forged threaded bushing for the UCA mount so I can have lots of adjustability for camber. I will then use a weldable 2" ball joint for the UCA and LCA spindle mounts.
Ballistic Joints & Bushings
As of now, I am using a 1.25"x1.25" square tubing with either .120" or 3/16" wall as a skeleton and then sandwiching it with 1/4" or 3/16" steel plating. My dad will start helping me with the analysis of how thick I need everything to be to withstand the bending and shear stresses.
A neat design I also saw by Ballistic Fabrication is having the shock mounts go through the top of the LCA and mount to the bottom of it so it loads the top and bottom directly. Obviously I would reinforce the area anyways and it's not like it would be hollow where the shock mounts, but I am incorporating a similar design. I plan to also send my preliminary drawings out for quotes about laser cutting. If laser cutting is very expensive I can always go and just use our oxyacetylene torch (or get my dad to finally invest in a plasma cutter :thumb: ) and cut the pieces myself. There is nothing that needs very close cutting besides where the shock mounting tabs go through the LCA top plate which I can do that with a torch fine and just fill in with weld or just overlap the LCA top plate with other plates that sit flush with the shock mount tabs.
I haven't started on the UCA or spindle, but I think it's a decent bit of work thrown together in an hour or two and at least resembles a LCA.
~original[/IMG]
Anyways, thanks for reading and I'll keep this updated as I continue my design
So as per the norm I went wheeling today. Up Providence and explored a side trail with my buddy and these girls with a Wrangler who we hadn't met before. It was an okay trail, nothing too exciting though. Providence canyons main trail is super annoying too since it's either normal speed and you get beat to shit or go slower than your grandma can crawl and have a smooth ride.
Somehow my CB microphone cord got flexed enough that it broke too, so I couldn't reply to anyone on the CB and the wires look fine so I don't know what is wrong with it. Kinda pisses me off too since this radio is less than 6 months old and the microphone cord wasn't even in a stressful angle. I might contact Uniden and see if they'll send me a new one.
Secondly, I somehow ran over a log or something I didn't see and it exploded and somehow cracked my passenger side mirror, flipped the mirror housing in (like it's meant to do), and then I had like 12" of log fling into the passenger seat. I have no idea how that happened, but I was afraid my window had exploded and luckily no one was riding with me...
And lastly, something is wrong with my rear axle. It's doing that floating type thing people talk about, where you can feel it shift from one side to the other. I haven't checked it, but I think it's weird if the panhard/track bar bushings just failed all of a sudden. Maybe my links are out of wack or something... Either way, I need to fix it before I can drive home since I drove it tonight around 50mph and I felt the axle shift a few times and it was way sketchy. I'm not super surprised though, my suspension takes a beating from going faster than the Jeeps go up the trails and then being used more offroad than onroad while in school and being used that way usually multiple times a week... I might beef up my rear links if I have time during Christmas break. At a minimum something needs to be done since the back end is already proving a choke point on the overall truck.
LT
I began actual design work of the long traveled independent front suspension design today. I read a lot on TacomaWorld in the LT section and came across Ballistic Fabrication. The plan is of now to use their weldable 2.6" bushing for the LCA to frame mount, and then use a forged threaded bushing for the UCA mount so I can have lots of adjustability for camber. I will then use a weldable 2" ball joint for the UCA and LCA spindle mounts.
Ballistic Joints & Bushings
As of now, I am using a 1.25"x1.25" square tubing with either .120" or 3/16" wall as a skeleton and then sandwiching it with 1/4" or 3/16" steel plating. My dad will start helping me with the analysis of how thick I need everything to be to withstand the bending and shear stresses.
A neat design I also saw by Ballistic Fabrication is having the shock mounts go through the top of the LCA and mount to the bottom of it so it loads the top and bottom directly. Obviously I would reinforce the area anyways and it's not like it would be hollow where the shock mounts, but I am incorporating a similar design. I plan to also send my preliminary drawings out for quotes about laser cutting. If laser cutting is very expensive I can always go and just use our oxyacetylene torch (or get my dad to finally invest in a plasma cutter :thumb: ) and cut the pieces myself. There is nothing that needs very close cutting besides where the shock mounting tabs go through the LCA top plate which I can do that with a torch fine and just fill in with weld or just overlap the LCA top plate with other plates that sit flush with the shock mount tabs.
I haven't started on the UCA or spindle, but I think it's a decent bit of work thrown together in an hour or two and at least resembles a LCA.
Anyways, thanks for reading and I'll keep this updated as I continue my design
Illestreker
New member
I applaud you for being creative and trying to design your own LT setup but i'm curious why your going through the trouble to "re-invent the wheel" on this project. Why not build it trying to replicate the ballistic LT for 1st gen tacoma or the solomotorsports LT as best as possible? seems like it would be easier and a more proven design based on all the work and testing those companies have done.
http://www.solomotorsports.com/products/toyota/tacoma/95-04-4x4/
Also IMO you should consider building custom spindles like the solo kit uses, as well as a uniball for the LCA.
Non the less, I'm really excited to see what you come up with and how it works out! Exciting for sure!!
http://www.solomotorsports.com/products/toyota/tacoma/95-04-4x4/
Also IMO you should consider building custom spindles like the solo kit uses, as well as a uniball for the LCA.
Non the less, I'm really excited to see what you come up with and how it works out! Exciting for sure!!
snivilous
Senior Member
Thanks man! I agree there are a ton of LT designs out there I could just copy, but that takes some of the fun out of it for me. I want to have a totally custom kit that I built myself and I know will be strong enough through the engineering I did. If I just copy the looks of other kits then I'll have to assume mine is built the same way and their kit was strong enough to begin with, or I could just do the analysis myself and know the LT inside and out.
Thanks for that link though, I definitely plan on doing custom spindles and those pictures help a lot for reference. The spindles are probably my biggest concern, simply because I can't pull my spindles apart at school to measure the bolt patterns I need. As for the uniball, I need to research them a bit. As far as I can tell they are essentially the same as a ball joint (or the names are thrown around a lot).
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Rear Suspension
I think my issue with the rear axle "walking" is from a faulty shock. The back end bounces WAY too much. I initially was thinking the panhard bars bushings were going out or the links were bad, though the links are fine and the bushings wouldn't just fail all of a sudden so that didn't make sense.
Then I was talking to my buddy who just got new smooth body Fox shocks on his front end, and yesterday was his first day wheeling them and he said they were getting pretty hot and he was just crawling through the stuff I was going faster in. It got me thinking I've never felt my shocks, so maybe they were getting super hot. I jumped on the back of the truck and it bounces a lot, if I jump on the front then the front dampens really fast but the rear you can see bouncing. If I push down on the front corners, the back drivers side bounces a lot so I think just that shock has failed.
Tomorrow I will remove the bottom of the shocks and test them, I looked around but can't find anything of shocks overheating and don't know if permanent damage can happen from the oil becoming frothy as what happens when a shock overheats. If it is the shock, which everything makes sense for that, I will contact Bilstein for a new one. I'm not sure what to think since the other shocks are great, but they have less than 4 months of use and less than 3000 (probably under 2000) miles on them. Course it could be a one off failure, and regardless it's good they have a lifetime warranty, just annoying. Will keep this updated with what happens.
snivilous
Senior Member
So I worked on the rear end today to try and confirm my suspension that one of my shocks was going out. Turns out, the shocks are fine! :clap2:
Also turns out one of my upper links is sheared in half! :fear:
Like a pro on campus:
Sheared link I found (passenger side):
Which explains the "walking" or shifting I feel when driving. I think it's strange it broke though, even if going fast when the wheels get hit the top of the axle should try and rotate backwards creating a movement around the lower links putting the top ones in tension which they are obviously designed for since steel is very strong in tension...and the link didn't snap so not sure how that happened... maybe since I'm not running any sway bars right now the geometry got overextended and was binding and snapped it?
I pulled the drivers shock first which I thought was bad, then found the link as I was pulling the passenger side shock to compare them. The two shocks feel the same so I think they are good. I'm assuming the extra rocking it looks like the drivers side has is just from the extra weight of gas and maybe the link geometry being messed up has something to do with it... Going to go throw the shocks back on now and will try to get one of my buddies or the ag tech people to weld the link back together. I was planning on reinforcing the top links anyways, so I'll probably do that sooner rather than later (like Thanksgiving). Thanks for reading!
Also turns out one of my upper links is sheared in half! :fear:
Like a pro on campus:
Sheared link I found (passenger side):
Which explains the "walking" or shifting I feel when driving. I think it's strange it broke though, even if going fast when the wheels get hit the top of the axle should try and rotate backwards creating a movement around the lower links putting the top ones in tension which they are obviously designed for since steel is very strong in tension...and the link didn't snap so not sure how that happened... maybe since I'm not running any sway bars right now the geometry got overextended and was binding and snapped it?
I pulled the drivers shock first which I thought was bad, then found the link as I was pulling the passenger side shock to compare them. The two shocks feel the same so I think they are good. I'm assuming the extra rocking it looks like the drivers side has is just from the extra weight of gas and maybe the link geometry being messed up has something to do with it... Going to go throw the shocks back on now and will try to get one of my buddies or the ag tech people to weld the link back together. I was planning on reinforcing the top links anyways, so I'll probably do that sooner rather than later (like Thanksgiving). Thanks for reading!
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