Sold it after 6 months

[1engineer]

I hear this type of reply often, but nobody is looking for a sports car here or hating on the 4Runner. Anyone who has taken the time to open an account on a web forum must have some passion for the car. I am not looking for an AMG Benz, just a touch of extra power is all.

You hear this type of reply often because it is the truth. No vehicle is "everything to all people" and there are certainly compromises. Here are my classifications:

Handling (includes braking)
Speed and Performance
Comfort
Utility (how much crap or people will fit in it)
Towing ability
Off Road ability
Durability
Reliability
Expense to Maintain
Visually Pleasing to MY Eyes

So here is my score sheet when buying a new vehicle. It has categories that are measurable such as speed, towing, etc but it also has categories that are subjective to only me, myself and I. Also times change during this thing called life. I once needed a mini van to haul all the stuff around for my children. They are now in college so I do not need all that space. I assign a number from 1-3 for each category. One means it is below what I want. Two means it is comparable to other products and three means it is better than the competition. You can't compare a Corvette to a 4Runner with this system but you can compare pickups to pickups, SUV to SUV or sports cars to sports cars. If more people used something like this instead of emotions there would be much less whining and dissatisfaction in the world.

 

[Quentin]

You hear this type of reply often because it is the truth. No vehicle is "everything to all people" and there are certainly compromises. Here are my classifications:

Handling (includes braking)
Speed and Performance
Comfort
Utility (how much crap or people will fit in it)
Towing ability
Off Road ability
Durability
Reliability
Expense to Maintain
Visually Pleasing to MY Eyes

So here is my score sheet when buying a new vehicle. It has categories that are measurable such as speed, towing, etc but it also has categories that are subjective to only me, myself and I. Also times change during this thing called life. I once needed a mini van to haul all the stuff around for my children. They are now in college so I do not need all that space. I assign a number from 1-3 for each category. One means it is below what I want. Two means it is comparable to other products and three means it is better than the competition. You can't compare a Corvette to a 4Runner with this system but you can compare pickups to pickups, SUV to SUV or sports cars to sports cars. If more people used something like this instead of emotions there would be much less whining and dissatisfaction in the world.

I'd be lying if I said that I didn't make an excel spreadsheet for the last 3 vehicles I purchased that weighed things almost the same way. I did manage to compare a Subaru WRX, Mazda Miata, VW GTI, and Honda Fit. The 4Runner beat out a slew of Toyotas (FJ, 3rd gen 4Runner, highlander, and Tacoma.) The Prius beat out a Camry SE, Camry hybrid, Prius Liftback, MINI Countryman, and Lexus CT. Cargo carrying ability pretty much won the comparison for the v.

 

[homeyclaus]

If more people used something like this instead of emotions there would be much less whining and dissatisfaction in the world.

Word.

The world would also have fewer wars, terrorism, and other bad stuff. And less stuff for mechanics to fix...

 

[1engineer]

I'd be lying if I said that I didn't make an excel spreadsheet for the last 3 vehicles I purchased that weighed things almost the same way. I did manage to compare a Subaru WRX, Mazda Miata, VW GTI, and Honda Fit. The 4Runner beat out a slew of Toyotas (FJ, 3rd gen 4Runner, highlander, and Tacoma.) The Prius beat out a Camry SE, Camry hybrid, Prius Liftback, MINI Countryman, and Lexus CT. Cargo carrying ability pretty much won the comparison for the v.

Word.

The world would also have fewer wars, terrorism, and other bad stuff. And less stuff for mechanics to fix...

Yeah but we also know that we three are "brothers from different mothers" based on a few years of reading each other's posts lol.

@homeyclaus: Could you imagine if an "engineer" got elected to be President? Wow. I can imagine it now: A country run by logic instead of political accumen, telling the press to "check my math" knowing they couldn't lol and instead of badges with "Vote For Me" on them we would issue pocket protectors with that verbage! On second thought maybe it would not be such a good idea. We would end up being the most fiscally sound strongest superpower with leading edge technology and a military second to none. Only problem is we would be able to do it with only about 700 people (mostly guys) because everyone else would have exited the country en masse. So we would be left with 700 people and Canada would have everyone else. No, probably not a good idea for an engineer to run for president. I do think we could re-write the tax code and make it fair and fit it on the back of a corn flake box using 12 pt arial font though. That's another reason why we would only have 700 people left. Wait til we got to the social programs and applied logic...

 

[homeyclaus]

Yeah but we also know that we three are "brothers from different mothers" based on a few years of reading each other's posts lol.

@homeyclaus: Could you imagine if an "engineer" got elected to be President? Wow. I can imagine it now: A country run by logic instead of political accumen, telling the press to "check my math" knowing they couldn't lol and instead of badges with "Vote For Me" on them we would issue pocket protectors with that verbage! On second thought maybe it would not be such a good idea. We would end up being the most fiscally sound strongest superpower with leading edge technology and a military second to none. Only problem is we would be able to do it with only about 700 people (mostly guys) because everyone else would have exited the country en masse. So we would be left with 700 people and Canada would have everyone else. No, probably not a good idea for an engineer to run for president. I do think we could re-write the tax code and make it fair and fit it on the back of a corn flake box using 12 pt arial font though. That's another reason why we would only have 700 people left. Wait til we got to the social programs and applied logic...

If engineers ran this country for a while, we would not need a military, borders, or anything else. Because even stupid people would realize that this bear's not worth messing with, if only because then the would not be able to buy all the cool stuff we'd be making.

Sadly, that utopia will never happen. The little old ladies and the nannies they raise will prevent it, and worse, continue to force us to apply resources to rounding all corners and rubber-coating all parts of this world... "for the children" and all that.

Ok, it's time to stop being subversives and counter-revolutionaries.

OP, how are you making out with your new ride?

And why is it that I now want to buy a Tundra 5.7L?

 

[Lolrax]

Yeah but we also know that we three are "brothers from different mothers" based on a few years of reading each other's posts lol.

@homeyclaus: Could you imagine if an "engineer" got elected to be President? Wow. I can imagine it now: A country run by logic instead of political accumen, telling the press to "check my math" knowing they couldn't lol and instead of badges with "Vote For Me" on them we would issue pocket protectors with that verbage! On second thought maybe it would not be such a good idea. So we would be left with 700 people and Canada would have everyone else.

If an engineer was president it would be fantastic, one correction would be that he would likely move the White House to Canada to take advantage of our natural resources and quit lying to the American people about the possibility of replacing fossil fuels with a magical green alternative.

He would also admit to the American people that there isn't enough Oil & Gas in the United States to sustain the country for very long, the amount of natural gas the USA brought on stream made it worth next to nothing, and every day that he spends denying the importance of fossil fuels and neglecting pipelines means another Canadian oil & gas company has been acquired by China as they are securing their future more aggressively.

Also, "Coolness" and "Cultural Trends" which are a couple of the United States main exports at the moment will decline rapidly due to a lack of funding for cultural events and creative/artistic initiatives.

 

[Dongbeiren]

I think for a body on frame design, the 4R is very comfortable.

Different families have different needs, just because it's not for yours, doesn't mean it cant be a good family car, it works for me, my wife, and my unborn baby just fine.

Have you thought about why you got a good trade-in value? I think that's because the truck itself is good!

 

[JB.]

If more people used something like this instead of emotions there would be much less whining and dissatisfaction in the world.

Word.

The world would also have fewer wars, terrorism, and other bad stuff. And less stuff for mechanics to fix...

And far fewer products sold.

What is the engineering approach to a catch 22?

 

[1engineer]

And far fewer products sold.

What is the engineering approach to a catch 22?

That is a wonderful question and answered very simply: "Nothing any different than what we do now."

You see, EVERY design is a "catch-22" meaning no matter how good or efficient you design something you have compromised something else in order to do so. Here are a few examples known to our readers here:

"Front bumper not strong enough. Solution: Add stronger bumper. Result: Bumper strength improved, efficiency goes down."

"Gas milage not acceptable. Solution: Lighten vehicle by removing overdesigned components. Result: Front bumper not capable of handling winch mount."

Every. Single. Thing. designed is a compromise because of something, maybe cost, maybe material, maybe labor not skilled, maybe no visual appeal or such. Because of this compromise inherent to our world catch-22 situations are the normal state of machines.

ICON 4X4 (the ones that make the FJ's and the Broncos) makes a product that is the closest to being an uncompromised machine in my opinion. Ultimately though they face a catch 22 situation in the end by having to compromise because of cost.They could have made it even better but $200K is probably maximum someone will spend for an old 4X4 with crank up windows lol.

 

[M1911]

1Engineer - Amen brother. So many people just don't understand that engineering is all about compromise. You should have seen the crap storm that happened in a gun forum when I tried to point out that the Heckler-Koch tag line - "No Compromise" - is BS. Every engineered artifact is a compromise because that is the very essence of engineering, but the HK fan boys went ballistic.

 

[Jtraskell]

Just for fun.....

 

[Barry694]

4Runner ride and braking

I own a new Lexus LS460 AWD and a 2011 4RUNNER. Not to many cars can beat the ride and braking of the Lexus. When I switch over to driving the 4RUNNER there is a definite difference, but this is a SUV, body on frame. I love the Lexus, but the 4Runner is just as much fun and I enjoy the drive and handling. Naturally, I am using each vehicle for a different purpose, and for their different purposes they are both equally decent. The 4Runner is not a family oriented highway cruiser, as the Lexus is not designed to take the rough treatment you would give a 4WD vehicle that excels off road. Get the vehicle that best suits your needs if you only own one vehicle and live with the compromises that you will have to make. There is no one vehicle fits all needs!

 

[chatham]

Asking somebody who knows.....Is there really that much of a difference in suspension firmness, nose dive etc between the SR5 and TE/LE?

I specifically bought my 2011 Trail w/KDSS to avoid the mushy suspension and brake dive issues which you mentioned. It handles very well on curves and on the highway. I expect that it will handle even better when I change the OEM Dunlop tires for a set of Michelins when it is time.

 

[Barry694]

4Runner ride and braking

You are definitely right about the tires. Mine came with the Bridgestone HT Dueler. I pulled those off and put on a set of Michelin LT MS 2's and it is a whole new ball game in ride and handling. In fact the michelin dealer took my old tires in trade against the michelin's.

 

[chetJ]

I have had the 2011 LE for about 1.5 years now and have experienced ZERO issues with mushy suspension. The XREAS does an excellent job preventing any nose dive or other similar issues.

 

[thebwlife]

If an engineer was president it would be fantastic, one correction would be that he would likely move the White House to Canada to take advantage of our natural resources and quit lying to the American people about the possibility of replacing fossil fuels with a magical green alternative.

He would also admit to the American people that there isn't enough Oil & Gas in the United States to sustain the country for very long, the amount of natural gas the USA brought on stream made it worth next to nothing, and every day that he spends denying the importance of fossil fuels and neglecting pipelines means another Canadian oil & gas company has been acquired by China as they are securing their future more aggressively.

Also, "Coolness" and "Cultural Trends" which are a couple of the United States main exports at the moment will decline rapidly due to a lack of funding for cultural events and creative/artistic initiatives.

Man someone loves Canada more than a Texan loves Texas.

Gross NG production in 2010 (newest figures put by EIA) USA 26,836 BCF vs Canada 6,695 BCF, on oil (I went with 2010 to keep things equal, but they have newer data) USA 9,692 MBOPD vs Canada 3,434 MBOPD.

Guess we can keep our White House where it's at to "take advantage of our natural resources" which we produce more of. I will say oil reserves are better in Canada but that's assuming a high price to make economical, but the USA makes up that in natural gas reserves. These numbers from 2010 don't include 3 new shale fields in the US either (Eagleford, Bakken, and Utica) 2 were "discovered" after and one was not being developed like it is now.

Source International Energy Statistics

Production Research is what I do (Texas Panhandle mostly)

 

[M1911]

Man someone loves Canada more than a Texan loves Texas.

Gross NG production in 2010 (newest figures put by EIA) USA 26,836 BCF vs Canada 6,695 BCF, on oil (I went with 2010 to keep things equal, but they have newer data) USA 9,692 MBOPD vs Canada 3,434 MBOPD.

Guess we can keep our White House where it's at to "take advantage of our natural resources" which we produce more of. I will say oil reserves are better in Canada but that's assuming a high price to make economical, but the USA makes up that in natural gas reserves. These numbers from 2010 don't include 3 new shale fields in the US either (Eagleford, Bakken, and Utica) 2 were "discovered" after and one was not being developed like it is now.

Source International Energy Statistics

Production Research is what I do (Texas Panhandle mostly)

There you go again, using facts to back up your post!