Sprint Booster

[1996_Valencia_Owen]

This also messes with the terrain select settings, which means it also messes with crawl control.

I suspect it also causes more tip-in knock, and that the reason Toyota softened stock throttle input is to decrease that knock and improve longevity.

Nobody argued otherwise when I posted a few pages back, and tip in knock is a real thing, as stepping on the gas hard right after cruising (esp under high load) causes a fast change in exhaust gas pressure and leans the AFR that makes knock spike until the ecu and fuel injectors can spray extra fuel and catch back up.

Whether a little more tip in knock hurts the 1gr-fe is tbd. But if folks like Jason Koertge get 50k+ trouble free miles while towing a turtleback trailer, then maybe I'll jump on board at that point lol

 

[simonsay]

Anyone have positive results with mpg?

Looking at my MPG for the past 2 months, it seems it did not change. Obviously each time will be different, but on average is stayed the same. The response of the 4runner has gone from sluggish to excellent. Not sure how many of you have FJs or ever driven one, but I always thought my FJ was very responsive and didn't understand why they made the 4runner so sluggish..... HOWEVER, with the sprintbooster I now think the FJ is more sluggish.

BTW, have another sprintbooster V3 for sale new in box.... $250 shipped! Let me know if anyone wants it!

 

[Glider]

This also messes with the terrain select settings, which means it also messes with crawl control.

I suspect it also causes more tip-in knock, and that the reason Toyota softened stock throttle input is to decrease that knock and improve longevity.

Nobody argued otherwise when I posted a few pages back, and tip in knock is a real thing, as stepping on the gas hard right after cruising (esp under high load) causes a fast change in exhaust gas pressure and leans the AFR that makes knock spike until the ecu and fuel injectors can spray extra fuel and catch back up.

Whether a little more tip in knock hurts the 1gr-fe is tbd. But if folks like Jason Koertge get 50k+ trouble free miles while towing a turtleback trailer, then maybe I'll jump on board at that point lol

When you say "messes" with terrain select and crawl control, how exactly? After reading dozens of reviews, I haven't seen that from anyone. I wS about to order but I don't want something that "messes" with factory 4wd features.

 

[simonsay]

When you say "messes" with terrain select and crawl control, how exactly? After reading dozens of reviews, I haven't seen that from anyone. I wS about to order but I don't want something that "messes" with factory 4wd features.

Doesn't mess with anything. I used crawl control and everything last month in Ouray and there is nothing is messes with.

 

[ElectroBoy]

This also messes with the terrain select settings, which means it also messes with crawl control.

I suspect it also causes more tip-in knock, and that the reason Toyota softened stock throttle input is to decrease that knock and improve longevity.

Nobody argued otherwise when I posted a few pages back, and tip in knock is a real thing, as stepping on the gas hard right after cruising (esp under high load) causes a fast change in exhaust gas pressure and leans the AFR that makes knock spike until the ecu and fuel injectors can spray extra fuel and catch back up.

Whether a little more tip in knock hurts the 1gr-fe is tbd. But if folks like Jason Koertge get 50k+ trouble free miles while towing a turtleback trailer, then maybe I'll jump on board at that point lol

Tip-in knock, as when you quickly floor it while passing at highway speeds?
I never notice this. Before or after Sprint Booster installation. Maybe it happens but the ECU corrects for it so fast that I never hear or sense it.
Has anyone noticed tip-in knocking on a 5th gen?

 

[Jason B]

Doesn't mess with anything. I used crawl control and everything last month in Ouray and there is nothing is messes with.

Sprint Booster does not affect any Terrain select settings or crawl control in any way.

I never notice this. Before or after Sprint Booster installation.

Good, no worries. Not an issue.

I was about to order but I don't want something that "messes" with factory 4wd features.

No worries. AND, I'll go a step further. I'd let you return it, NO QUESTIONS ASKED, if you don't like it, but I already know you're going to love it. I've done this for a few guys on the fence.

Burtman Industries Sprint Booster, V3 SALE! -Still some in stock, but getting low on stock!! Still on sale for now.

 

[Cndnmax]

This also messes with the terrain select settings, which means it also messes with crawl control.

I suspect it also causes more tip-in knock, and that the reason Toyota softened stock throttle input is to decrease that knock and improve longevity.

Nobody argued otherwise when I posted a few pages back, and tip in knock is a real thing, as stepping on the gas hard right after cruising (esp under high load) causes a fast change in exhaust gas pressure and leans the AFR that makes knock spike until the ecu and fuel injectors can spray extra fuel and catch back up.

Whether a little more tip in knock hurts the 1gr-fe is tbd. But if folks like Jason Koertge get 50k+ trouble free miles while towing a turtleback trailer, then maybe I'll jump on board at that point lol

I seriously doubt any of those systems would fail because of a faster throttle application (which is all this thing does). And I did reply to your tip-in knock post. the link you posted was talking about modifying fuel mapping which is completely different.
In the end, whether you are mashing the pedal 75% without a sprint booster or 50% with a sprint booster. You would achieve the same acceleration and you would cause the same load on the vehicle (picking random numbers here but u get the point).

 

[sLADe781]

When you say "messes" with terrain select and crawl control, how exactly? After reading dozens of reviews, I haven't seen that from anyone. I wS about to order but I don't want something that "messes" with factory 4wd features.

No worries. AND, I'll go a step further. I'd let you return it, NO QUESTIONS ASKED, if you don't like it, but I already know you're going to love it. I've done this for a few guys on the fence.

Burtman Industries Sprint Booster, V3 SALE! -Still some in stock, but getting low on stock!! Still on sale for now.

I can personally attest to this! I was one of the members on the fence about purchasing the booster and being stuck with something that I wasn't happy with but Jason assured me that I was going to love the booster. However, if for some reason I wasn't 100% happy with the product, I could return it no questions asked.

The booster arrived last Friday and I installed it right away and took it out for a test drive. I'll be honest that I was not convinced that the booster was worth the money on my first go around. I played with the settings a bit but couldn't get that "WOW" factor that I was looking for. Eventually my wife took the 4Runner out for a whirl and we bumped it up to RED 9 and WOW, what a difference! As others have said, this is how the car should have came from the factory. The 4Runner feels so much more alive and responsive now. I love driving it!!

Installation notes: I used 2 zip ties to secure the booster and factory plug to the mat to prevent movement. I also positioned the booster facing out for easy access should I decide to plug/unplug the controller. Currently I have the controller unplugged since I am happy with my settings but should I decide to mount the controller in the future, the plug will be easily accessible.



A special thanks to Jason for offering the boosters up to members at a discounted price! :thumb:

 

[1996_Valencia_Owen]

Ok, first of all.

I have no horse in this race.

Second, unless someone has unlocked the ECU (or using some other device, maybe an ultragauge?) to measure degrees of knock, it's total BS to say definitively there's no tip-in knock from the Sprint Booster.

Third, with apologies to Jason B, a sometimes-here-sometimes-not VENDOR of said product, I will exclude your opinions. It's great you have a good warranty, and I'm not a hater of this product. I just would love to see data logs to prove that boosting the throttle aggressiveness is beneficial - cuz I'd think Toyota would otherwise have been incentivized to do this themselves.

And last...

Explain to me how Terrain Select works, someone, and then try to explain how Sprint Booster (or any throttle-adjusting hardware or software) WON'T affect that. Because as far as I know, Multi Terrain Select adjusts the throttle-input mapping to optimize it for certain kinds of terrain.

As for tip-in knock, it's something I tuned extensively to minimize in my NC2 MX-5. Adding a ceramic-coated header, a bit of AFR richness, down low, and adjusting a few other things helped, but it still exists in any engine, and needs to be tuned around.

Re: logging tunes with a tuner for that and any other car with an unlocked ECU, the process is basically: Do ~10 mins of round-town driving for usual-use logged data, then do 2-3 WOT (wide open throttle) pulls from near-lugging in 3rd gear to 7,500 rpm, which in my car was like 15mph-75mph on the freeway.

Afteer doing dozens of rounds of logs on incrementally refined tunes, the knock would drop by a lot. But the two places you could almost never remove it completely were a) (naturally) near lugging, and b) anytime you went from cruising to suddenly mashing the gas. This is called tip-in or transition-state knock.

Anyways, again, here's more on the topic of...

Tip-in knock:
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2090392
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2569397
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/1609221-what-causes-tip-knock.html
Tip in knock - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB
https://www.f150online.com/forums/s...ers/494035-throttle-tip-knocking-problem.html
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=25512

And if you watch the videos from Toyota (and others from XO), Crawl Control works better when Multi Terrain Select is engaged.

Thanks.

 

[Wasatch]

Currently I have the controller unplugged since I am happy with my settings but should I decide to mount the controller in the future, the plug will be easily accessible.

What was your final setting? I haven't even tried the RED settings yet. I'm a Green 4.

 

[1996_Valencia_Owen]

I seriously doubt any of those systems would fail because of a faster throttle application (which is all this thing does). And I did reply to your tip-in knock post. the link you posted was talking about modifying fuel mapping which is completely different.
In the end, whether you are mashing the pedal 75% without a sprint booster or 50% with a sprint booster. You would achieve the same acceleration and you would cause the same load on the vehicle (picking random numbers here but u get the point).

Oversimplification.

You're seeing mostly folks doing tuning noticing tip-in knock, because they're starting to mess with their cars. From the factory, Toyota (and other brand) engineers have done all the logging, and minimized knock.

But when tuners start to change things, they have to log. And they're reporting the issues in those forums. I added more examples this time.

Basically a fact of combustion is, there's a limit to how instant-on throttle opening can be done, without causing dangerous knock, for any given timing and fuel richness levels. And if you decide to tune with more degrees of cam advance, leaner AFR (if it's over-rich from the factory), etc... then you have to be really careful to adjust the tune in other ways to keep tip-in knock from getting a lot worse.

So my hypothesis stands for now, that I bet if you logged round-town runs in a 5th gen with a SprintBooster, that when you get on the gas in warm temps and under load, it'll have lot of little instances of detonation/knock that wouldn't be there, stock.

Maybe the ECU will pull timing to compensate. But, then you'd lose mpg (as has been reported) and reduce low end hp/torque.

 

[sLADe781]

What was your final setting? I haven't even tried the RED settings yet. I'm a Green 4.

I kept my final setting at the highest, Red 9. A lot of members usually stop around mid green but I really couldn't tell a difference at those settings. Even mid red settings were iffy. But at red 9, the car feels really good and responsive for me which is what I was going for.

 

[Jason B]

I kept my final setting at the highest, Red 9. A lot of members usually stop around mid green but I really couldn't tell a difference at those settings. Even mid red settings were iffy. But at red 9, the car feels really good and responsive for me which is what I was going for.

I've been selling these since 2009, about 9 years now, started with the Honda Ridgeline sprint booster, those guys love em. The first version had no settings. It came defaulted to 9, the highest position and this is what most used, well, they didn't have a choice, lol, it was set at the highest position from the factory. Then a few years later they made one with a "high and low" switch choice. Now, V3 lets you do whatever you want. Me personally, I like 9, which is how the first units use to be and how older cars used to feel with the real metal cable from the gas pedal going to the throttle body, like my 3rd gen 4Runner!

The best way to think of this is like having a loose throttle cable and tightening it up. For ex, the Honda S2000, they had a TSB for early models that left the factory with a lose throttle cable. People complained that there was delay when starting out in first gear and after shifting. The tsb has the dealer remove the slack out of the throttle cable, 2 min fix. Then a few years later the s2000 got drive by wire and was slower than the older models - the reaction time of the gas pedal. I've sold hundreds of these for other vehicles and some aren't as bad as others, but this one really make a big difference on the 4Runner.

Burtman Industries Sprint Booster, V3 SALE! -Still some in stock at this nice price.

 

[ElectroBoy]

I shared this info on the forum a while ago (way back in entry #203). Being a skeptic while researching the SprintBooster I found this old technical white paper (Sprint Booster A technical white paper by Dick Bipes September 2007)
evaluating the function and performance of the unit. It's from 2007 but it still seems valid, even though the design has been tweaked over the years.

Here's the paper's conclusion:
"The Sprint Booster is a simple amplifier that multiplies the accelerator pedal sensor signal, making the accelerator pedal more sensitive. It does not eliminate any significant delay in throttle response, nor does it greatly improve acceleration figures. It does not change the adaptive throttle control programming of electronic throttle control vehicles. It does change pedal “feel”. This change in feel is interpreted by some as improved throttle response, acceleration, and a change in adaptive throttle control programming. Considering what it actually does, it is expensive. '

http://www.crosslake.net/~dbipes/sprintbooster/SprintBooster.pdf

It seems like the SprintBooster isn’t going to increase the occurrence of tip-in knocking any more than flooring the pedal on a stock setup.

[MENTION=140996]1996_Valencia_Owen[/MENTION], since you’re a performance tuner, how about taking advantage of the free 30 day trial period and try one out? Beat on it and see how it performs with your equipment. It would be interesting to see the results. Thanks.

 

[1996_Valencia_Owen]

I'm actually pretty open to it. The only question is, are there any companies like Ecutek who have cracked the ECU, so I can log drives around the area with the cable plugged into the OBD2?

I'm not a pro tuner btw. Just got really into it with Miatas. It's getting pretty common in the sportscar community, and the things you can do with tuning now are incredible. Stuff like allow flat-foot shifting in a manual (no clutch press needed!) by messing with between-gear timing, etc. On the fly timing map changes, etc.

I also had to learn myself, because my stupid tuner back in 2014 accidentally cleared out my VVT maps, so basically I was getting zero variable valve timing advanced from the ECU for a month, until I could use logs to prove it.

However...... if the SprintBooster really works like that, and it's not eliminating a delay, just amplifying a signal within a range that hasn't changed, it might be all-good.

It really sounds like that's the case, and I/others are just getting confused by the means, not the end.

Thanks!

 

[Cndnmax]

However...... if the SprintBooster really works like that, and it's not eliminating a delay, just amplifying a signal within a range that hasn't changed, it might be all-good.

That’s only what we’ve all been saying from the start lol. The only delay it eliminates is the time it takes to move your foot half an inch.

 

[Superjet]

https://www.pedalcommander.com/product/pedal-commander-p4-pc27/?motor=4.0L+V6&v=7516fd43adaa

I went with pedal commander just for the bluetooth control. I didn't want to mount a controller on the dash. Works great!

Use coupon code FJ2018 to bring the price down to $265

 

[1996_Valencia_Owen]

That’s only what we’ve all been saying from the start lol. The only delay it eliminates is the time it takes to move your foot half an inch.

Right, even I was saying that. But then there were some graphs being used, which showed an acceleration. So I think that had to get ironed out.

 

[Jason B]

Burtman Industries Sprint Booster, V3 SALE! -Still some in stock at this nice price. Only about 5 left. After those are gone, takes a few weeks to get more.

***AND you don't have to mount anything if you don't want to! You can set it where you want it, then remove the cord, like an aux cable and keep in your glovebox in case you ever want to change it down the road. Many do this, that don't want to mount the switch. It remembers the setting for life.

 

[Jason B]

3 left in stock. Will get more after these run out, but if you want one this week, order now