Starting struggles

[TurkVU]

Hey all - just got my 2000runner back from the organ replacement doc - had a used transmission dropped in and she seemed to be running fine...but now I'm having issues getting it started.

Battery checks as 12.x V, so it seems to be fine. When I turn the key, all the dash lights turn on - the engine just doesn't turn. I don't believe I hear a clicking sound.

I can usually get it started if I really quickly jump on the key after about 3-4 tries. And once it's warmed up, like if I drive down to the store and turn it off, it'll start right back up without any issues.

Does this sound like the starter issue where I most likely need to just replace the contacts?

 

[Brian.]

Check the voltage across the battery terminals while trying to start (2 people needed for this). If the battery voltage drops below ~11vdc before starting I'd suspect the battery. If it drops below 10vdc it is ABSOLUTELY the battery. Static unloaded voltage doesn't really say anything.

While you're there, clean the terminals and clamps of corrosion and make sure they're snug. Check the ends of the 3 main connections (body ground, engine ground, engine positive) to make certain they are all tight and corrosion-free too.

My personal best WAG (wild ass guess) is that you have a cable not making connection as best as it can all the time. Probably from the mechanic disconnecting something and not Fully reconnecting it (or getting grease in the way) when finishing up the trans replacement. Could simply be one of the cables failing (my body ground just did this, thanks to corrosion) or the terminal clamp failing (flimsy OEM stuff) too.

 

[photoleif]

and this was not a problem before the new transmission? manual or automatic? could be that the electrical connections are dirty or loose. for MT, get a good light and have a look at it through your right wheel well. gently manipulate the cable to see if it's loose at all (the point is to determine if the bolt is tight, not if the wire is defective). it could well be a starter issue, but given that it sounds like it *just* happened, i would look at what changed, and start there. the starter has to come off for a swap, since it mounts to the transmission housing.

edit: i see that [MENTION=315156]Brian.[/MENTION] and i posted at roughly the same time. his answer is a bit more thorough.

 

[TurkVU]

Thanks both - great advice to look what changed rather than assuming it's a new problem. Just went out and found the ground cable wasn't exactly snug and the positive terminal was grimy. I re-crimped the ground cable attachment and used a wire brush to clean the terminal and cable.

Started right up. Hoping that was the fix and not just a lucky turn.

Appreciate the help!

 

[photoleif]

Thanks both - great advice to look what changed rather than assuming it's a new problem. Just went out and found the ground cable wasn't exactly snug and the positive terminal was grimy. I re-crimped the ground cable attachment and used a wire brush to clean the terminal and cable.

Started right up. Hoping that was the fix and not just a lucky turn.

Appreciate the help!

right on! glad that seems to have helped. if it recurs, it may be time to rebuild the starter... but from the sound of it, loose connections were the likely culprit.

 

[gamefreakgc]

The starter has to be removed in order to unbolt the transmission so your mechanic was just messing with it. If the the lower engine wire harness (battery to starter) was damaged or not tightened correctly you may have a recurring issue. That's where to check next if it comes back.

 

[TurkVU]

Looks like this is still an issue. I put the voltmeter from my jump pack on the battery and it reads between 12-13V...I can actually see it when I turn the key and it usually stays at 12, sometimes dipping into the 11s, once it dipped into the 10s. I get one click and then nothing. For some reason, having the clamps for the voltmeter attached actually seemed to help in getting it started, only took about 3 attempts. I assumed this meant that there was an issue w/ the terminal connections and the clamps were helping out somehow.

So yesterday I replaced the positive terminal clamp and cleaned the negative (waiting on a wire crimper and ring connectors to be able to replace the negative). Seems to have improved things, it still just clicks once on my first couple turns, but will eventually turn over.

 

[photoleif]

this may be complete nonsense, but do you know that you got your original starter back after the transmission swap? as in, it was marked or somehow you'd recognize it. possible too that being unbolted and unceremoniously dumped on the garage floor jangled something inside and it needs the rebuild kit and some work.

 

[spartacus]

How old is the battery. Getting the battery tested will eliminate the battery as a cause.
.

 

[pavelvoivoda]

Hey man,
you need to replace the contacts plunger and plates inside the starter. It's all worn down. That's what might cause the intermittent start.

If the time that it actually fires up, that means the battery is OK. A weak battery wont be able to turn the starter fast enough.

Just take it off, and remove the cover and see what's the condition of the copper contact plates and plunger ring.

If you take it off, might as well change the brushes and clutch assembly too to make sure it wont fail again the next 200K.

Im just about to go thru the same thing...

 

[FordF150]

Hey man,
you need to replace the contacts plunger and plates inside the starter. It's all worn down. That's what might cause the intermittent start.

If the time that it actually fires up, that means the battery is OK. A weak battery wont be able to turn the starter fast enough.

Just take it off, and remove the cover and see what's the condition of the copper contact plates and plunger ring.

If you take it off, might as well change the brushes and clutch assembly too to make sure it wont fail again the next 200K.

Im just about to go thru the same thing...

Get a new start from Amazon for $90. The dealer rebuilt my OEM starter that failed after 4 years and the rebuilt lasted 1 year.

New starter will solve ops issues.

 

[TurkVU]

Get a new start from Amazon for $90. The dealer rebuilt my OEM starter that failed after 4 years and the rebuilt lasted 1 year.

New starter will solve ops issues.

I took it back to the shop that did the transmission and we took a look from underneath - turns out the starter is covered in oil, which would explain the issue. Took a look from the top and might have a blown head gasket (but haven't investigated that yet).

Thinking at this point I may just replace the starter and hope I get another few months of life while I wait for my new ride, but not sure how quickly the oil would coat that one too.

Which one did you get from Amazon? I was looking at OEM Denso rebuilds which go for about $200 w/ the core fee.

Unfortunately, none of the mechanics I know here in Austin will do the pull, clean and replace contacts route and I don't have a place or the blocks to lift it up.

 

[FordF150]

"Which one did you get from Amazon? I was looking at OEM Denso rebuilds which go for about $200 w/ the core fee."

You need to type in your make and year to get the right starter from Amazon.

Mine was $110 - no core was required. Comes with 1-year warantee.


Amazon.com: DB Electrical SND0491 Starter Compatible With/Replacement For Toyota Tacoma & Tundra 4.0L 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 & 4Runner 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 FJ Cruiser 2007 2008 2009: Automotive

 

[Skulking]

"Which one did you get from Amazon? I was looking at OEM Denso rebuilds which go for about $200 w/ the core fee."

You need to type in your make and year to get the right starter from Amazon.

Mine was $110 - no core was required. Comes with 1-year warantee.


Amazon.com: DB Electrical SND0491 Starter Compatible With/Replacement For Toyota Tacoma & Tundra 4.0L 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 & 4Runner 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 FJ Cruiser 2007 2008 2009: Automotive

Never trust that Amazon actually knows which parts are compatible with your car. Following up on that, never trust that anything you buy on Amazon is OEM even if it claims to be, if you want OEM, buy it from a dealer. Beyond that you can't trust that the part isn't counterfeit. Finally, that starter is clearly wrong for a 3rd gen. You don't even need to check the listed part number to see that, all you need to do is look at the item description. That is for the 4.0L, not the 3.4L.

To get back to the original question, new OEM starters aren't available anymore, so if you want OEM you do need to either rebuild the OEM starter yourself, or buy an OEM remanufactured starter. To make things more interesting, there are actually 2 starter options, a 1.8kw starter (28100-62030-84), and a 1.4kw starter (28100-62050-84). As far as I have been able to determine, there isn't any specific package or option which guarantees which starter you have, and a dealer lookup by VIN won't tell them which is correct. The only way to know for sure which one you need is to pull the starter and see which one you have. Generally the 1.8kw seems to be the default, and from what I've found online, it looks like the 1.4kw was used primarily on 4 cylinder models without cold weather packages, and primarily on manuals. If you have a V6 automatic it's very likely that the 1.8kw starter is the correct one.

 

[leonp24]

"Which one did you get from Amazon? I was looking at OEM Denso rebuilds which go for about $200 w/ the core fee."

You need to type in your make and year to get the right starter from Amazon.

Mine was $110 - no core was required. Comes with 1-year warantee.


Amazon.com: DB Electrical SND0491 Starter Compatible With/Replacement For Toyota Tacoma & Tundra 4.0L 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 & 4Runner 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 FJ Cruiser 2007 2008 2009: Automotive

Never trust CaptSolo - FordF150

 

[TurkVU]

Ended up getting a remanufactured Denso from rockauto (More Information for DENSO 2800166) ended up being $145 shipped. Had a guy put it in for me over the weekend and so far so good - turning right over.

I kept the old unit and plan on cracking it open when I have some time and seeing what the contacts look like.

Thanks everyone here for all your help!