Suspension lift advice

[theesotericone]

I will never buy anything King ever again after a certain person on here had them on for less than a week and had one bend. King won't warranty it - doesn't even want to look at it first. Offered to fix it for $400. Pathetic support for someone that just spent $$$

Thanks for bringing this up man. I'm beyond pissed at King at this point. I'll put it all in my trails thread over the weekend. But for now: #fvckking

Matt is getting screwed? Dang. I have brand new fronts waiting to get installed, and working on purchasing King rears now...

Yep. They don't even want to look at the shock to see if its possible it could be an internal failure that caused it. Remarkably arrogant. #fvckking

kings should look at the shock and then come to a decision but regardless whose fault if they were smart they should favor the customer and right off the 400 as customer satisfaction and it will give them an edge over their competitors, word of mouth etc. specially the kind of amazing rig that the kings were installed on.

Exactly. Why not take a look before saying and I quote "Are shafts don't bend like that"
#fvckking

Any warranty beyond materials and workmanship is at manufacturers discretion.

Ok I'll bite since you took the bait. Weren't you there did Matt power through any obstacles that dual locked dual case would magnify the stress to drivetrain.
The other day I did some serious thinking on the carnage, with the way diff mount broke and one bent hit pan serious torque there. One CV looks as it was at the end of cup, strain ripped cup not the look of exploding like spinning tire hit the ground.
One thing I wonder has Matt put it on alignment rack to see if LCA mounting points or others are out, If he had before alignment specs compare to after might show something. As for bending rod end, seems like a victim of all the other stresses and deflection going on. A lot of wrong things came together at right time to cause all the damage. Oh yea bent OTRE. If trail was that rough why didn't others break stuff, just the way it works out sometimes.

I'll bite. How do you bend a shaft without any damage to LCA, UCA, UBJ, LBJ. or spindle?

The diff being rolled lead to broken CV's. It gave the passenger side an extra inch of droop. That one is easy to reason and explain. Bending a shaft without major damage to the LCA, or UCA is not as easy to explain. I'm all ears.

I haven't had it aligned but I did drive home 300 miles at 75 MPH with no vibrations. The truck tracked perfectly straight and steering returned to center like it always does. I also pulled numbers from fixed points on the frame to all suspension components. The drivers side and passenger side where all within 1/16" of each other.

Oh and: #fvckking

 

[rkntoy]

Any warranty beyond materials and workmanship is at manufacturers discretion.

Ok I'll bite since you took the bait. Weren't you there did Matt power through any obstacles that dual locked dual case would magnify the stress to drivetrain.
The other day I did some serious thinking on the carnage, with the way diff mount broke and one bent hit pan serious torque there. One CV looks as it was at the end of cup, strain ripped cup not the look of exploding like spinning tire hit the ground.
One thing I wonder has Matt put it on alignment rack to see if LCA mounting points or others are out, If he had before alignment specs compare to after might show something. As for bending rod end, seems like a victim of all the other stresses and deflection going on. A lot of wrong things came together at right time to cause all the damage. Oh yea bent OTRE. If trail was that rough why didn't others break stuff, just the way it works out sometimes.

Having been there and having looked at the rig there was nothing that should have caused this. You can speculate all you want but the LCA would have to be majorly tweaked to cause this. Its not.

 

[4runner_noobie]

Thank you all for the replies. I have not had much time to search on the subject. Life is very busy right now with 2 businesses, 3 kids, soccer, cheer, hunting season, and the list goes on and on it seems like, lol.

I have used the search feature to fix/replace things such as pcv valve, cleaning MAF and throttle body, new radiator, fixing seized parking brake, repairing auto climate control, installing new steering rack, and some other things I'm sure I am forgetting.

Just wanted to have a discussion on something that might be highly opinionated based on the particular goals I am trying to achieve. I can also see how for someone who spends a lot of their time on these forums that it could be frustrating to see the same old questions asked.

Thank you to those willing to help and point me in the right direction.

 

[rkntoy]

Thank you all for the replies. I have not had much time to search on the subject. Life is very busy right now with 2 businesses, 3 kids, soccer, cheer, hunting season, and the list goes on and on it seems like, lol.

I have used the search feature to fix/replace things such as pcv valve, cleaning MAF and throttle body, new radiator, fixing seized parking brake, repairing auto climate control, installing new steering rack, and some other things I'm sure I am forgetting.

Just wanted to have a discussion on something that might be highly opinionated based on the particular goals I am trying to achieve. I can also see how for someone who spends a lot of their time on these forums that it could be frustrating to see the same old questions asked.

Thank you to those willing to help and point me in the right direction.

Sorry for the sidetrack of your thread. At least my first post was on track.

 

[4runner_noobie]

Sorry for the sidetrack of your thread. At least my first post was on track.

I don't mind at all. [emoji482]

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[96RedRunner]

Having been there and having looked at the rig there was nothing that should have caused this. You can speculate all you want but the LCA would have to be majorly tweaked to cause this. Its not.

Having been there and having looked at the rig there was nothing that should have caused this. You can speculate all you want but the LCA would have to be majorly tweaked to cause this. Its not.

Agree with you on the above though you have to speculate some to figure out what caused it. Speculation is a form of point failure analysis.
I take it the drive home was on this shock right? Means it's not bound. Moving up and down. It's hard by pic to tell where shaft is bent, center or toward lower perch? The shaft is hollow for a certain length from piston end toward center of shaft. I couldn't find any pics to scale of how much of the length is hollow. This fact creates a weak area. If shock is capable of cycling at normal ride height and toward the extended portion of range the damage occurred when shock was compressed. Let's say shock was bottomed out or near at the time right tire grabbed ground powering through obstacle causing deflection through LCA not enough to bend it but flex it twist it with bushings doing their thing. At the same time drive train torque was ramped up breaking and bending diff mounts. With the CV problems fallout from the above.
I've been on both sides of this type thing. Feel for Matt for dollars lost it sucks, pay to play. As for King it clearly states in warranty does not cover abuse, in this case they deemed it abuse, Just the way it is. The 4runner side of them is small potatoes a few bad reviews on FB not hurting them.
Damn that's a lot of typing, been easier with beer in hand shooting da chit in person.

 

[rkntoy]

Agree with you on the above though you have to speculate some to figure out what caused it. Speculation is a form of point failure analysis.
I take it the drive home was on this shock right? Means it's not bound. Moving up and down. It's hard by pic to tell where shaft is bent, center or toward lower perch? The shaft is hollow for a certain length from piston end toward center of shaft. I couldn't find any pics to scale of how much of the length is hollow. This fact creates a weak area. If shock is capable of cycling at normal ride height and toward the extended portion of range the damage occurred when shock was compressed. Let's say shock was bottomed out or near at the time right tire grabbed ground powering through obstacle causing deflection through LCA not enough to bend it but flex it twist it with bushings doing their thing. At the same time drive train torque was ramped up breaking and bending diff mounts. With the CV problems fallout from the above.
I've been on both sides of this type thing. Feel for Matt for dollars lost it sucks, pay to play. As for King it clearly states in warranty does not cover abuse, in this case they deemed it abuse, Just the way it is. The 4runner side of them is small potatoes a few bad reviews on FB not hurting them.
Damn that's a lot of typing, been easier with beer in hand shooting da chit in person.

The coilover is really isolated from CV or tie rod issues. Only thing engineers at work could come up with (absent a suspension component failure) was bottoming the shock hard (either due to travel too short or shock failure).

 

[96RedRunner]

The coilover is really isolated from CV or tie rod issues. Only thing engineers at work could come up with (absent a suspension component failure) was bottoming the shock hard (either due to travel too short or shock failure).

That's how I see it also separate issues.
Shock specs in play here for sure.
Speculation here, aka the 5 Y's.
With shock bottomed out, piston at top of travel I see shock tube being supported strongly by top mount meaning piston/rod having minimal deflection. At bottom end rod is supported by rod end cap bearing.
So your supporting lets say 75% of shaft length well. Under these circumstances the amount of shaft exposed from shock body to lower mount is short, which can multiply effects of any flexing. Could the suspension components flex enough without bending cause this?
As for shock failure, would think that would have been noticable after SHTF.
This is a perfect example damn this is gona leave a mark, in my wallet. Lol.

 

[theesotericone]

I've been on both sides of this type thing. Feel for Matt for dollars lost it sucks, pay to play. As for King it clearly states in warranty does not cover abuse, in this case they deemed it abuse, Just the way it is. The 4runner side of them is small potatoes a few bad reviews on FB not hurting them.
Damn that's a lot of typing, been easier with beer in hand shooting da chit in person.

My motto is:

Build it
Beat it
Break it
Build it better.

I've also been on both sides of this. The money isn't the issue for me. All told it'll be fixed, by me, for less then 100 bucks.

What's pissing me off is Kings attitude about the whole thing. They are an off-road shock company. They have to expect that their shocks will be used by people who actually wheel. That means they should expect to have some come back with damage.

To say, without ever seeing the shock, that it's abuse is bullshit. Companies with good customer service will send out an RMA right away. They usually even pay for shipping. The reason they do this is so they themselves can look at whatever is damaged. Using that they can give advice to the owner if it's truly not a warranty issue. East Coast Gear Supply bends over backwards to stand behind their warranty. They get a ton of business because of that.

If this is the path King chooses to follow I promise you they will loose market share and rightfully so. People that wheel hard want to have products on their rigs that the company stands behind. If King keeps treating customers this way it won't be just one guy in a 4runner forum talking about it. It's already started and will continue. It sucks cause they make a damn fine shock.

I still haven't had time to pull the shock from the coil. Once that's done I'll have a better idea if the shock is functioning properly. If it's hydro-locked I'm gonna laugh my ass off.

And one day we will sit and have a beer. There's no hard feelings on my end to anyone posting about the possibilities of what happened. The only hard feelings are towards Kings arrogance in this matter.

Oh and:
fvckking

 

[96RedRunner]

[MENTION=143526]theesotericone[/MENTION], Good Motto only one actually.
Me being on both sides is I made the decision to send RMA or nip it in the bud.
Some companies worry about setting precedent that can lead to future situations they don't want. That's where I see Kings arrogance coming from.
Could effect them across the board rather than a small niche market.
ECGS has fantastic CS, when comparing the two ECGS is a niche market different tactics apply. Real world business practices.

As for Hydro-locking that could of happened at the time SHTF, don't think
it's a permanent condition based on design. If permanent believe you would have noticed on way home unless Cali roads are glass smooth.

As for feelings ha I have none. I called out rkntoy he called me out you got in on it we all good, that's called discussing a topic. It's 5 oclock somewhere. :cheers:

 

[96RedRunner]

This is my 2000 4Runner. I'm looking for advice on a suspension lift....

Mornin, thread got hijack'd bad, try this.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/66976-3rd-gen-4runner-lift-information-faqs.html