Suspension lifts - Realities and capabilities

[Throwback]

I've been digging through old suspension threads here for a couple of weeks straight now and have learned a lot, but I'm still searching for some clarity on my particular needs.

I'm looking for straight answers because I believe that 99.9% of reviews on suspension upgrades are so thick with confirmation bias that nobody wants to really share that they wish they hadn't screwed up the nice factory ride. There are plenty of comments like "It's a little stiffer than I wanted but looks great and should do awesome off-road!" which to me seems like a veiled regret statement.

I hope that makes sense. I'm looking for the real answers like "Yeah, the 5100s look cool but made the ride horrible; I should've spent more money on a different system or just kept it stock."

Maybe that's not the case and all suspension upgrades have great results. :thumb:

I debated starting a new thread but haven't quite found my answer so here goes.

Assumptions -

I live in North Georgia so my off-road terrain is trails that are found in the local mountains - moderate speed on forest service roads, then slow going in 4L on the actual trails.

I have no interest in spending the money on a full race suspension (Icon, King, etc.).

I drive my truck every single day as my primary vehicle so mathematically I'm >99%+ highway, <1% off road.


1) How much more *actual* off-road capability is gained by a 1.5-2.5" lift on stock size (or close to it) tires?

2) Is there an actual noticeable difference in off-road capability between a perch/spacer lift (5100s) versus an increased travel lift (OMEs)?

3) How much does the daily driving ride suffer, and what are those negative symptoms between the two types?

4) Are Bilsteins as failure-prone as the forums make them out to be, and are OMEs as bullet-proof as they're made out to be?

5) When considering keeping this T4R for many years and miles, is lifting the truck a poor idea for long-term reliability? Mainly, is it going to cause cascading premature failures of other components?


I was nearly set on the 6112/5160 combo but then started finding all the reports of the 5160s failing and Bilstein not replacing them since they are only warrantied for 90 days.

The runner up is the OME 883/2895E with OME Nitrocharger shocks for 2" all around. However, I can't get a clear answer on how the daily highway ride changes.

The 5100 with OEM springs and rear spacers is popular but I think most of those are done only for aesthetics.

So there you have it. All straight shooter answers are appreciated.

 

[(none)]

I've been digging through old suspension threads here for a couple of weeks straight now and have learned a lot, but I'm still searching for some clarity on my particular needs.

I'm looking for straight answers because I believe that 99.9% of reviews on suspension upgrades are so thick with confirmation bias that nobody wants to really share that they wish they hadn't screwed up the nice factory ride. There are plenty of comments like "It's a little stiffer than I wanted but looks great and should do awesome off-road!" which to me seems like a veiled regret statement.

I hope that makes sense. I'm looking for the real answers like "Yeah, the 5100s look cool but made the ride horrible; I should've spent more money on a different system or just kept it stock."

Maybe that's not the case and all suspension upgrades have great results. :thumb:

I debated starting a new thread but haven't quite found my answer so here goes.

Assumptions -

I live in North Georgia so my off-road terrain is trails that are found in the local mountains - moderate speed on forest service roads, then slow going in 4L on the actual trails.

I have no interest in spending the money on a full race suspension (Icon, King, etc.).

I drive my truck every single day as my primary vehicle so mathematically I'm >99%+ highway, <1% off road.


1) How much more *actual* off-road capability is gained by a 1.5-2.5" lift on stock size (or close to it) tires?

2) Is there an actual noticeable difference in off-road capability between a perch/spacer lift (5100s) versus an increased travel lift (OMEs)?

3) How much does the daily driving ride suffer, and what are those negative symptoms between the two types?

4) Are Bilsteins as failure-prone as the forums make them out to be, and are OMEs as bullet-proof as they're made out to be?

5) When considering keeping this T4R for many years and miles, is lifting the truck a poor idea for long-term reliability? Mainly, is it going to cause cascading premature failures of other components?


I was nearly set on the 6112/5160 combo but then started finding all the reports of the 5160s failing and Bilstein not replacing them since they are only warrantied for 90 days.

The runner up is the OME 883/2895E with OME Nitrocharger shocks for 2" all around. However, I can't get a clear answer on how the daily highway ride changes.

The 5100 with OEM springs and rear spacers is popular but I think most of those are done only for aesthetics.

So there you have it. All straight shooter answers are appreciated.

Good questions. I'm on the opposite corner of the state, but venture up towards the north end often.

The issue with suspensions is they can be subjective. Many people only drive stock then whatever modified route they go, they have nothing else to compare it to.

1) A lift kit will help with looks, approach, departure and breakover angles slightly, but the main benefit for me, a good kit will allow for more suspension travel. Also, I, like many others, have scraped the fuel tank skid off road as it hangs down so low. A lift will help with that as well. It will not help rear diff clearance, of course.

2)A spacer lift will not increase suspension travel (in fact, it can further limit it), and depending on the type they preload the front springs, causing a stiffer ride. OME actually designs springs and shocks for the vehicle, with correct valving, lengths, etc.

3)A decent indicator of this is going to be the spring rates. Most systems use close to front spring rates (~580 lb/in) for a normal setup, the rears is where things can get wonky. I've read stock rear springs are around 180-200 lb/in. Most aftermarkets are in the 220 lb/in range (so a touch stiffer), OMEs are all at least 260 lb/in (and go up as you get more heavy duty). That's a spring that is at least 40% stiffer than stock to begin with. Mix that with the valving on the Nitrochargers, and that is why you read a lot of people saying the OMEs ride stiff. They are great loaded down though. I had an LC80 with OME suspension. I loved the way it road. It was stiff, but very controlled.

4)I've had both leak. I think more people use Bilsteins, so you hear of more failures. I know the billies have a somewhat good rep over here, but coming from the JK forum, they aren't very highly regarded. I had 5100s on my lifted jk and ended up switching to adjustable Rancheros to help with the ride. Both of my fronts were leaking slightly.

5) no lift kit is going to improve your reliability. That said, a small lift shouldn't really hurt it. Your CV angles will still be ok. These things don't have drive shaft issues. All in all, these are really easy vehicles to get a small lift.

So, with all of that being said, I'm in the middle of installing my lift currently. I, like I'm sure you are doing, reasearched for month, every possible solution to get what I wanted. I am also mostly on road, but still routinely hit the dirt. To me, the stock ride is already light years ahead of the JK I came from, so I'm not looking to ruin that. I was set on the 6112/5160 combo, Wheelers rear springs, LR ucas, etc. A nice budget lift. After reading more and more, comparing numbers (shock lengths, spring rates, costs, etc), I essentially spent about twice as much as I'd planned and pieced together an Icon stage 2ish kit (ET 2.5 front coil overs, 2" rear shocks, 2" rear springs, track bar, SPC UCAs). I have no illusions of making the 4R any kind of dune jumping machine, so I went without the reservoirs (less failure/ leak points as well as being much cheaper). Will see how it goes, but I like everything is rebuildable and I haven't heard a bad thing about the system.

What really pushed my over the edge was remembering a few years ago when I bit the bullet and spent nearly the same amount I just spend on an entire lift it, on just 2 shocks for my motorcycle. It transformed the machine. A quality suspension is well worth its weight.

 

[Throwback]

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to respond with that much detail.

My problem with the Icons is that I understand that they must be rebuilt every 20-40k miles and I want no part of that. Is that not the case?

I actually enjoy the plush ride of the OEM non-KDSS suspension, especially coming from a KDSS truck which rode noticeably stiffer. That is my biggest concern with the OME stuff as my 150lb body is generally the only cargo inside the vehicle 95% of the time. I do not camp or haul heavy loads and I drive slower than most so I think I would suffer more than benefit from a firmer setup.

It seems logical that keeping that same spring rate and shock valving with a taller ride (1.5-2.0") and gaining that same amount of additional travel would be ideal. I do not want to replace any other suspension components (control arms, etc.).

 

[Angelo]

I actually enjoy the plush ride of the OEM non-KDSS suspension, especially coming from a KDSS truck which rode noticeably stiffer. That is my biggest concern with the OME stuff as my 150lb body is generally the only cargo inside the vehicle 95% of the time. I do not camp or haul heavy loads and I drive slower than most so I think I would suffer more than benefit from a firmer setup.

It seems logical that keeping that same spring rate and shock valving with a taller ride (1.5-2.0") and gaining that same amount of additional travel would be ideal. I do not want to replace any other suspension components (control arms, etc.).

So, not to be offensive in any way, but I saw many of your questions / posts regarding your KDSS problems- it seems like you're now happy with the truck you have, but are looking to rip out and redo the suspension? Honestly man that seems like a recipe for disaster for you- I say leave your suspension mods to the good AT tires you have on your rig and wheel the pi$$ out of it exactly as it is. I bet you'd find that the truck is well capable of doing what you need / want it to do without any changes (aside from tires) to the suspension that you're happy with.

Again, no offense intended. Just my 2 cents.

 

[bimrunner]

Does your truck currently do everything you want it to do? If so, leave it alone since you enjoy the ride quality. I've had 5100s, Icon and now King. Ride is subjective. The build quality of shocks is different and I went through my evolution as I quickly wanted more and more from my suspension in terms of what it allowed me to do. I push my truck hard. I wheel it.

For light wheeling, you don't need suspension upgrades necessarily. Primarily why you lift is for bigger tires. Skids and sliders are more important to wheeling than shocks to some degree but if you are bouncing hard off-road, OEM shocks were not built to handle that abuse. They were designed for road and light occasional dirt. The only way to get highest quality is to go with rebuildable shocks (which you said you don't want) because that is the only way your rig can handle the abuse... the shocks take a beating and you have to maintain them.

5100s were a compromise shock that is designed to get you lifted or leveled and not lose too much suspension travel from stock and are not serviceable (no rebuilds). They are stiffer than stock.

Icon/radflo are digressive shocks that have a cushier ride quality but aren't true racing shocks. Many like the softer ride. They do require rebuilds and depending on how much and how you drive that could be annual or every other year. It also means you are probably going to be doing things like UCAs that also increas maintenance.

Fox/King racing shocks are progressive shocks and performance is their game. For most people, this is overkill.

Fox does make a lower end OEM replacement shock and I have them on my chevy 2500. They are also like 5100 as they are OEM replacements. All the OEM replacement shocks at that level are similar and you are simply buying a decent upgrade. They are all a little stiffer to allow for the harder use cases that often are associated with lifted trucks.

There are tons of other options with small nuances. You are going to find different folks recommending different things because ride quality and use is specific to each person.

Edit: Just saw that if you lift you plan to run stock sized tires. If that is the case, do not lift it. Not only will it look silly, but you will not gain anything in terms of actual off-road capability. Bigger, more aggressive tires are the main reason to lift - only way to get more real clearance. If you are simply trying to protect valuable parts, buy skids and sliders.

 

[trailstandardoffroad]

The 5100s are note then just a perch/spacer lift. They have more travel built into them as well.

I have a kdss truck and I noticed a difference between stock and 5100s. And I put them on after only 500 miles. Just backing down my driveway I could tell. That said I don't think you can really go wrong with these.

More than anything "actual" offroad ability, comes from the tire style and size.

And as for long term reliablity. A mild lift with moderate wheel and tire specs, should not make a a big difference. If any difference at all.

 

[Simpleman74]

OME /THREAD. maybe 2% of people on this forum require fancy coilovers.... the rest have them cause they are cool.

 

[Throwback]

[MENTION=133649]Angelo[/MENTION] and [MENTION=89562]bimrunner[/MENTION]


Yes, I really like the way the truck rides right now. It's extremely smooth but supple enough that it takes bumps well as long as speed isn't excessive.

The biggest reason I was looking at lifts was to get the truck higher up to avoid damage. Plus everyone is always cooing about how much better their truck rides on and off road with whatever suspension they've installed. Surely I'm missing out on something, right? :hungry:

So, it sounds like a small lift doesn't really do much other than allowing larger tires. A real upgraded suspension lets you work the truck harder and bounce around more, but no real gains just from being taller.

That being said, is it safe to say most of the 5100 leveling lifts and such are just for looks?

 

[jbstrd]

Lifting will create more clearance everywhere BUT under the rear axle, even with stock tires. You have to go with larger diameter tires to gain clearance under the rear axle. So, some may lift just for looks, but it also offers additional clearance if you do go off-road or if you want to install larger tires down the road.

My suggestion for the OP since you seem sensitive to ride quality is to meet up with members in your area and take a ride in different rigs with various setups to get a feel for yourself. Otherwise, you are just basing your decision off of subjective opinions.

 

[bimrunner]

[MENTION=133649]Angelo[/MENTION] and [MENTION=89562]bimrunner[/MENTION]


Yes, I really like the way the truck rides right now. It's extremely smooth but supple enough that it takes bumps well as long as speed isn't excessive.

The biggest reason I was looking at lifts was to get the truck higher up to avoid damage. Plus everyone is always cooing about how much better their truck rides on and off road with whatever suspension they've installed. Surely I'm missing out on something, right? :hungry:

So, it sounds like a small lift doesn't really do much other than allowing larger tires. A real upgraded suspension lets you work the truck harder and bounce around more, but no real gains just from being taller.

That being said, is it safe to say most of the 5100 leveling lifts and such are just for looks?

[MENTION=54404]jbstrd[/MENTION] gave the answer. Leveling is for looks. 5100s can be used for a full 2.5" of lift front and rear to gain some body clearance which is helpful off-road if you go in the rocks and want to clear bigger tires. If not, yes, it is just a look.

 

[Throwback]

What about the increased travel that is allowed with say Bilstein 5100s at 0" and Toytec coil springs, or the 2" full OME kit? Is that not beneficial without larger tires?

Going from 265/70/17s to 285/70/17s would give you essentially 0.5" of additional clearance under the rear axle, so the cost of a lift and tires seems excessive if that's the only benefit.

Sorry if these are elementary questions - I'm trying to better understand the actual performance of all this beyond the looks.

High level - what's the most practical and useful way to upgrade these trucks for daily driving and weekend warrior trail riding?

 

[honda250xtitan]

High level - what's the most practical and useful way to upgrade these trucks for daily driving and weekend warrior trail riding?

thats a very specific question and the answer comes down to your budget, and what your weekend trails look like.

i'll be throwing kings on the wife's daily driver. Do i really need them? probably not, but i've been through the "lets just level it with spacers, now it rides worse, and doesn't have enough travel, ok lets try 5100's, well i blew those out in one trail, ok fine now lets do 2.5's up front and 2.0's in the rear"

sure its stiffer on road, but thats mainly valving, you can get them tuned to be soft on road. it'll mean you MIGHT bottom out quicker once you're off road, but i doubt that. again the bottoming out characteristics can be tuned as well through the shock valving.

we use the 4runner for desert and forest roads. doing ~40-50mph. anywhere from 10-60 miles before we get to our camping spot. then the 4runner will sit all weekend, pack it up and drive home on sunday. I'm sure 5100's would be fine for it, but i'd rather not do the install 2x and get more alignments then necessary. i think i've worked on my titan suspension 10 times and have had it aligned every time after plus periodically. its dumb lol.



oh, Kings look cool, they can be built to your spec, and valved how you want (i.e. street use) look up filthy motorsports.

 

[(none)]

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to respond with that much detail.

My problem with the Icons is that I understand that they must be rebuilt every 20-40k miles and I want no part of that. Is that not the case?

I actually enjoy the plush ride of the OEM non-KDSS suspension, especially coming from a KDSS truck which rode noticeably stiffer. That is my biggest concern with the OME stuff as my 150lb body is generally the only cargo inside the vehicle 95% of the time. I do not camp or haul heavy loads and I drive slower than most so I think I would suffer more than benefit from a firmer setup.

It seems logical that keeping that same spring rate and shock valving with a taller ride (1.5-2.0") and gaining that same amount of additional travel would be ideal. I do not want to replace any other suspension components (control arms, etc.).

I wouldn't worry about the rebuild every 20-40k. They are no different than a normal shock, which you wouldn't have to replace every 20-40k. The advantage is, once (if) they do start leaking or getting weak, you don't have to throw them away. Similarly, they can be modified for future changes (such as if you want to change to heavier springs and would like the shocks revalved).

As far as changing control arms. Read into it what you'd like. But figure there isn't THAT much adjustment in the stock setup (none on the actual upper control arm). Any lift you add is going to push you towards the out of tolerance range or at least towards the bottom. Plus another advantage of the aftermarket upper controls arms is they allow the suspension to flex more than the stock ball joint.

 

[srsrogerissrs]

Get some daystar or cornfed spacers and call it day. Retain the stock plushy ride that you like and gain some height. Done and done.

 

[gundrted+t4r]

What about the increased travel that is allowed with say Bilstein 5100s at 0" and Toytec coil springs, or the 2" full OME kit? Is that not beneficial without larger tires?

Going from 265/70/17s to 285/70/17s would give you essentially 0.5" of additional clearance under the rear axle, so the cost of a lift and tires seems excessive if that's the only benefit.

Sorry if these are elementary questions - I'm trying to better understand the actual performance of all this beyond the looks.

High level - what's the most practical and useful way to upgrade these trucks for daily driving and weekend warrior trail riding?

These are very good points and you are not wrong.

Larger tires are really a matter of looks almost all​ the time. The .5 inches is not worth the cost, time and money. Agressive tires may look great but they kill MPG, are really loud and wear down quickly. Long story short ... If you have money to burn, tire it up and watch them get worn down the pavement.

From the driving you outlined the stock tires will meet your needs. You do not need agressive tires to 4x4. Sure they may help 10% of the time but for the 90% they are not needed. I have a friend who lifted his Tundra. He did a huge lift, tires and the whole nine yards. Very much like what you see here. At the end of the day I was able to take my lifted Jeep Wrangler JK Rubicon with stock all terrain tires more places than he could take his Tundra. The point is, people focus too much on tires. In reality you can do almost the same train with any Tire. Yes there are limitations, but 90% of the time it will not make a difference.

I have a '17 TRDORP and have no plans to get different tires until they are worn out. When I do get new tires I plan to get a solid AT in more or less the same size as stock.

A lift will 100% make a difference and it is not for looks. I'm also looking at the 6112/5126 combo. Ride quality is also very important to me. Unfortunately, it is also very subjective. I had a lifted Jeep Wrangler Rubicon for nine years. Everybody swore up and down that the lift I used had an amazing ride. In reality it drove like a tank. Focusing on changing the 4Runner to have no nose dive, no lean while turning or a planted ride does nothing but turn the suspension into an extremely stiff unit. Some people may like that, I have no interest in turning my 4Runner back into the type of suspension that was on my Jeep.

Lifting will add clearance to all the important parts. Yes it does not raise the rear diff but no lift will. Your axles are part of the unsprong wieght.

You know you're driving the best and the limitations of what you want to do. Stay true to that and you should be fine.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

 

[Throwback]

If spacers do nothing but look cool there's no point.

I'd sooner spend thousands of dollars on a low lift but higher performance total suspension system - IF there were solid benefits such as more articulation, etc.

 

[Throwback]

These are very good points and you are not wrong.

Larger tires are really a matter of looks almost all​ the time. The .5 inches is not worth the cost, time and money. Agressive tires may look great but they kill MPG, are really loud and wear down quickly. Long story short ... If you have money to burn, tire it up and watch them get worn down the pavement.

From the driving you outlined the stock tires will meet your needs. You do not need agressive tires to 4x4. Sure they may help 10% of the time but for the 90% they are not needed. I have a friend who lifted his Tundra. He did a huge lift, tires and the whole nine yards. Very much like what you see here. At the end of the day I was able to take my lifted Jeep Wrangler JK Rubicon with stock all terrain tires more places than he could take his Tundra. The point is, people focus too much on tires. In reality you can do almost the same train with any Tire. Yes there are limitations, but 90% of the time it will not make a difference.

I have a '17 TRDORP and have no plans to get different tires until they are worn out. When I do get new tires I plan to get a solid AT in more or less the same size as stock.

A lift will 100% make a difference and it is not for looks. I'm also looking at the 6112/5126 combo. Ride quality is also very important to me. Unfortunately, it is also very subjective. I had a lifted Jeep Wrangler Rubicon for nine years. Everybody swore up and down that the lift I used had an amazing ride. In reality it drove like a tank. Focusing on changing the 4Runner to have no nose dive, no lean while turning or a planted ride does nothing but turn the suspension into an extremely stiff unit. Some people may like that, I have no interest in turning my 4Runner back into the type of suspension that was on my Jeep.

Lifting will add clearance to all the important parts. Yes it does not raise the rear diff but no lift will. Your axles are part of the unsprong wieght.

You know you're driving the best and the limitations of what you want to do. Stay true to that and you should be fine.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

Great info. Like you I'm not bothered by the brake dive or lean in corners and I would prefer to keep that plush characteristic.

Logically a set of springs with the same rates as stock but taller would be the ticket, coupled with longer shocks with stock valving. I can't find a straight answer on whether the 5100 valving causes a stiffer ride, however.

Now you can be a guinea pig and let me know what lift meets those criteria. :hatsoff:


I've been very pleased with the stock sized KO2s. They ride very smooth on the street and the traction off road is great. I've also had no issue with sidewall punctures or anything like that.

 

[e60ral]

[MENTION=133649]Angelo[/MENTION] and [MENTION=89562]bimrunner[/MENTION]


Yes, I really like the way the truck rides right now. It's extremely smooth but supple enough that it takes bumps well as long as speed isn't excessive.

The biggest reason I was looking at lifts was to get the truck higher up to avoid damage. Plus everyone is always cooing about how much better their truck rides on and off road with whatever suspension they've installed. Surely I'm missing out on something, right? :hungry:

So, it sounds like a small lift doesn't really do much other than allowing larger tires. A real upgraded suspension lets you work the truck harder and bounce around more, but no real gains just from being taller.

That being said, is it safe to say most of the 5100 leveling lifts and such are just for looks?

i only do FS roads and mild trails too and i want a little bit more front clearance almost every time. I don't know if it was fuel economy or safety/handling reasons, but Toyota has the front sitting very low. I frequently scoop and grade the ground with my front skid and plan on getting 5100's for just that extra inch which will make a big difference on the easy/mild trails I drive. I also have breakover angle limitations on the tougher stuff but I hit the front a lot more than I hit anything in the middle.

If you haven't already needed any extra clearance on the trails you ride, then leave it stock until you start finding areas where it would help

 

[Throwback]

Yeah, I've avoided certain trails because I don't want to scrape my low hanging front end so I know exactly what you mean.

 

[1engineer]

I've been digging through old suspension threads here for a couple of weeks straight now and have learned a lot, but I'm still searching for some clarity on my particular needs.

I'm looking for straight answers because I believe that 99.9% of reviews on suspension upgrades are so thick with confirmation bias that nobody wants to really share that they wish they hadn't screwed up the nice factory ride. There are plenty of comments like "It's a little stiffer than I wanted but looks great and should do awesome off-road!" which to me seems like a veiled regret statement.

I hope that makes sense. I'm looking for the real answers like "Yeah, the 5100s look cool but made the ride horrible; I should've spent more money on a different system or just kept it stock."

Maybe that's not the case and all suspension upgrades have great results. :thumb:

I debated starting a new thread but haven't quite found my answer so here goes.

Assumptions -

I live in North Georgia so my off-road terrain is trails that are found in the local mountains - moderate speed on forest service roads, then slow going in 4L on the actual trails.

I have no interest in spending the money on a full race suspension (Icon, King, etc.).

I drive my truck every single day as my primary vehicle so mathematically I'm >99%+ highway, <1% off road.


1) How much more *actual* off-road capability is gained by a 1.5-2.5" lift on stock size (or close to it) tires?

2) Is there an actual noticeable difference in off-road capability between a perch/spacer lift (5100s) versus an increased travel lift (OMEs)?

3) How much does the daily driving ride suffer, and what are those negative symptoms between the two types?

4) Are Bilsteins as failure-prone as the forums make them out to be, and are OMEs as bullet-proof as they're made out to be?

5) When considering keeping this T4R for many years and miles, is lifting the truck a poor idea for long-term reliability? Mainly, is it going to cause cascading premature failures of other components?


I was nearly set on the 6112/5160 combo but then started finding all the reports of the 5160s failing and Bilstein not replacing them since they are only warrantied for 90 days.

The runner up is the OME 883/2895E with OME Nitrocharger shocks for 2" all around. However, I can't get a clear answer on how the daily highway ride changes.

The 5100 with OEM springs and rear spacers is popular but I think most of those are done only for aesthetics.

So there you have it. All straight shooter answers are appreciated.

I'll give you the truth. Yes, it's going to piss a bunch of people off, but hey, the truth hurts. Warning - Long read ahead:

First, let me dispense with the "I'd rather have it and not need it" "when it comes to suspension" crap. Why be selective if this is your mantra? You should wear two pairs of pants and socks every day then. You should have a spare 4Runner sitting at home. Hell, you should have two identical homes - you know - just in case one blows away. This excuse is just a way to justify things for some people. The truth? Here you go:

Most mod their 4Runner for one reason: Looks. That's it. It looks cool (I agree) and it fits their "image" of who they think they are when they look in the mirror. They mod it not because they NEED to but because they WANT to. In reality, even HAVING a 4Runner for most people is way overkill. What do they think... that the nice divided highway that leads to their manicured subdivision is suddenly going to turn into mush? Zombies? Who knows, but truthfully, 99% of the people, and I think that is an understatement, would do just fine with a Highlander. But they WANT a 4Runner and that's fine. I just wish they would admit it. So, now that we have got the "bro" element out of the way, on to modding.

Larger tires are the ONLY way you get increased ground clearance. Don't buy into the BS hype. Lifting increases your STATIC (sitting still) ground clearance. So, if you want to improve your approach angle why you are sitting still, then by all means lift it for that reason! Your suspension is dynamic - meaning it moves through a range. If you only lift it and do not install bigger tires, then when your suspension compresses while hitting a bump off road then it momentarily is back where it was before lifting! So that rock you thought you could clear by lifting? You might still hit it. Some will tell you "285's are the way to go! Much better than stock!" Well, why did they stop at 285's? Why not run 295's and they will go further. Why stop there? go to 35's and they will go even further. Wait! Let's go to 37's! I can go anywhere! Well, you can, until the guy with 40's goes even further...
Those who want to lift to clear larger tires? If you want to have your tires clear throughout the full suspension range you STILL have to mod the inner fender, BMC maybe, mud flap delete, aftermarket UCA's, etc. Let's move on.

If you do a suspension lift, be prepared to:
Accept that your vehicle will make more noises
Accept that your vehicle will not be as reliable or durable
Accept that your vehicle will require more maintenance
Accept that your vehicle will NOT ride or handle the same on the highway.
Accept that your vehicle will not be as efficient on the highway
Accept that your vehicle could require even more mods to "fix" the mods you just did.
Accept that any issues involving a myriad of suspension and driveline components COULD be denied for warranty consideration if there is a problem.

Now, with that said, the haters are definitely going to hate, but the above is the truth. Well then, why would you even mod or lift? Well,

Lifting, even though it is the best mod visually, is only one minor component of making the 4Runner more off road worthy. To truly make it really good off road, you need:
Skids
Bumpers
Lift
Associated Suspension Components like UCA's
Tires
Recovery gear

You are right to assume that opinions will be biased. That's natural. If I spent $5K on something, I will want it to be the best thing ever, and even if it's not, I will still tell people it's the best thing ever! Human nature. I'm looking at a new mountain bike that's around $5K. Trust me, it will be the best bike ever and I will tell everyone it is when I get it (even if it's not).

Truthfully, lifting, just lifting alone, does very little to help off road and only hurts you on road. But... it looks really good lol. Leveling? Worst idea ever. Purely for looks, terrible for performance like vehicle loading.

Now, why and I writing this, this heretic blasphemy on an enthusiast's forum? Because it's simply realistic. I started modding vehicles almost 40 years ago. I have almost (and have) ruined vehicles from being daily drivers by modding. I have taken perfectly good vehicles and, while making them off road kings, made them big fat pigs with horrible road manners. I have also take vehicles and made them LOOK like they could tackle Dakar.. and ruined their road manners and efficiency in the process.

I go off road more than most and some of it is for my job. My 4Runner is stock and goes off road better than just about any other vehicle in stock configuration. As a matter of fact, my 4Runner will go places that I don't have the courage to take it! Stock.

The one thing my stock 4Runner does not do as well stock? Looks. It does not look as cool as other vehicles, which is why most here mod theirs to begin with.

There you go. I'm not selling anything and I have no reason to lie or justify anything to you. All I have is experience. Evaluate (truthfully) what you really want to do with your 4Runner. Chances are, stock will be just fine and there is no shame in stacking rocks and taking the bypass every now and then. You will appreciate this when you are taking that 2K road trip comfortably and getting 20 mpg and not hearing any creaks and groans every time you hit a speed bump.

But, if you are like me, you will STILL look at your 4Runner sitting in the driveway and think "Damn, it would look too good I I just lifted it and put some different wheels on it..." so far I have been able to fight that demon...