Suspension Question: Air Lift compatible with aftermarket springs?

[OrdnanceMarine]

I'm getting ready to do a minor revamp of my suspension setup and have Bilstein 5100s for all four corners and OME 884 springs for the front ready to install but have yet to pull the trigger on the rear springs. I have started to use my 4Runner to tow 5000+ lb for 600 miles and anticipate doing this maybe 4 times per year so I want to keep my Air Lift 60809 air bags so I can offset the huge change in tongue weight from no trailer/empty trailer to full trailer.

I've noticed that the air bags really firmed up the rear end nicely, even down at 8-10 PSI where I leave them when I'm not towing. So, I'm trying to gauge whether it makes sense to change out the rear springs or just leave the stock springs and raise it up slightly with the 5100's or if I should go with the ~10% stiffer Superflex or even the 40% stiffer OME springs. I contacted Toytec and Kevin believes the Superflex springs have the same inner diameter as the OEM (Superflex are 5" ID according to him) but I wanted to see if anyone else here has used the Air Lift 60809 system on aftermarket springs and what your thoughts were with regard to my options.

Thanks!

 

[wnelax04sr5]

I'm getting ready to do a minor revamp of my suspension setup and have Bilstein 5100s for all four corners and OME 884 springs for the front ready to install but have yet to pull the trigger on the rear springs. I have started to use my 4Runner to tow 5000+ lb for 600 miles and anticipate doing this maybe 4 times per year so I want to keep my Air Lift 60809 air bags so I can offset the huge change in tongue weight from no trailer/empty trailer to full trailer.

I've noticed that the air bags really firmed up the rear end nicely, even down at 8-10 PSI where I leave them when I'm not towing. So, I'm trying to gauge whether it makes sense to change out the rear springs or just leave the stock springs and raise it up slightly with the 5100's or if I should go with the ~10% stiffer Superflex or even the 40% stiffer OME springs. I contacted Toytec and Kevin believes the Superflex springs have the same inner diameter as the OEM (Superflex are 5" ID according to him) but I wanted to see if anyone else here has used the Air Lift 60809 system on aftermarket springs and what your thoughts were with regard to my options.

Thanks!

well for one, the rear 5100's aren't adjustable, so if you want lift you need to buy new springs. if you do the super flex, the airbags will be fine. i think [MENTION=44862]macoyle[/MENTION] has them, so he can speak more to the fitment

 

[albertomc]

I ran the exact same setup you are proposing. I would recomend staying away from the OME - Billstein 5100 combo in the rear. It was WAY to stiff...even when loaded. If you want stiffer springs, go with a different shock so the ride is better.

I swapped to the Toytecs and the ride improved noticeably. I added the airlift airbags for when loaded and love the versatility. The exact part numper is 60728 and i bought it on amazon.

Let me know if you need anything else.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

well for one, the rear 5100's aren't adjustable, so if you want lift you need to buy new springs. if you do the super flex, the airbags will be fine. i think [MENTION=44862]macoyle[/MENTION] has them, so he can speak more to the fitment

You're right. I totally glossed over the fact that height adjustment on the rears is a result of springs only since they are separate. Shocks only serve to dampen on the rear as opposed to being a perch height for the springs like they are on the front. Spaced that one so thanks for the reminder.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

I ran the exact same setup you are proposing. I would recomend staying away from the OME - Billstein 5100 combo in the rear. It was WAY to stiff...even when loaded. If you want stiffer springs, go with a different shock so the ride is better.

I swapped to the Toytecs and the ride improved noticeably. I added the airlift airbags for when loaded and love the versatility. The exact part numper is 60728 and i bought it on amazon.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Any idea how much size difference there is between the Air Lift 60728 that you've used and the 60809 that I already have installed? I installed the Air Lift kit two months ago so it's practically new so if I can avoid having to buy another kit I'd like to try. I guess worse case is I can check it when I'm installing the springs and if it won't fit I can make the change then. At least all of the hardware is already in place for the Air Lift and all I'll have to change is the bags themselves.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Ordered the Superflex springs from Callahan Off Road this evening. Amazing how the mod itch gets me with my 4Runner only weeks after selling my '08 Civic Si Sedan that I had done a number of performance mods and tuning to. Hopefully the itch to mess with the headers and exhaust doesn't start soon!

 

[ebg18t]

If I recall correctly from looking at pictures of the Suoerflex vs stock I think they looked very similar in diameter, but were just a bit longer. I wonder if the airbags kits are different length? Since you already have the air kit I would try to make it work as the air kit is the best way to offset tongue weight while retaining good non towing ride quality.

 

[macoyle]

well for one, the rear 5100's aren't adjustable, so if you want lift you need to buy new springs. if you do the super flex, the airbags will be fine. i think [MENTION=44862]macoyle[/MENTION] has them, so he can speak more to the fitment

Sorry for the delay but yes thats the setup Im running. I have the Toytec Ultimate 3" with the aftermarket airbags in the rear. I don't remember what the part # for the rear colis are but you CAN use the ones for the FJ/4runner thats stock since thats what I am running. You can also use longer airbags since the coils are longer than stock but I don't have any issues or regrets with my setup.

 

[macoyle]

I don't have an apples to apples comparison picture for before and after the airbags, but heres a pic of before and after with two different trailers that are probably within 1K pounds of each other including the interior load:

Before:



After:

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Finally made time yesterday afternoon (and evening.....and night...) to install my new springs and shocks. Also installed wheel spacers at the same time. Installation of the shocks and springs was nominal. Definitely was quicker with second spring both front and rear.

One note: When I aired down my Air Lift bags I noticed the pax side didn't get soft like the driver's side bag did. I discovered the line had been pinched between the rubber pad and the lower mount which either meant that air could get in but not out or it happened when a good bit of air was already in the bag. This explains why there was a 1" difference between the two wheel gaps when I took my "before" measurements and why one side of the frame was higher than the other when I was setting the vehicle on the front jackstands.

The Superflex springs are a bit thicker than the OEM springs so the ID is less than the OEM and couple this with the more dense coil arrangement, it was a little more difficult to get the bags where I wanted them with the new springs than when I first installed the Air Lift kit. I kind of envision the air bags now acting as "helper" springs since they are only on the lower coils. I will get under there before my alignment on Wednesday and see where they have settled and adjust if necessary so they are completely seated against the lower mount to hopefully prevent a pinch of the air line in the future.

What an improvement the suspension changes made over stock! I should have done this YEARS ago! It wasn't really until I installed my air bags that I realized how under-sprung and under-damped the front end is!

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the various suspension threads! Your input helped me make what I think will be a great improvement to my rig!

 

[SAR_Runner]

Finally made time yesterday afternoon (and evening.....and night...) to install my new springs and shocks. Also installed wheel spacers at the same time. Installation of the shocks and springs was nominal. Definitely was quicker with second spring both front and rear.

One note: When I aired down my Air Lift bags I noticed the pax side didn't get soft like the driver's side bag did. I discovered the line had been pinched between the rubber pad and the lower mount which either meant that air could get in but not out or it happened when a good bit of air was already in the bag. This explains why there was a 1" difference between the two wheel gaps when I took my "before" measurements and why one side of the frame was higher than the other when I was setting the vehicle on the front jackstands.

The Superflex springs are a bit thicker than the OEM springs so the ID is less than the OEM and couple this with the more dense coil arrangement, it was a little more difficult to get the bags where I wanted them with the new springs than when I first installed the Air Lift kit. I kind of envision the air bags now acting as "helper" springs since they are only on the lower coils. I will get under there before my alignment on Wednesday and see where they have settled and adjust if necessary so they are completely seated against the lower mount to hopefully prevent a pinch of the air line in the future.

What an improvement the suspension changes made over stock! I should have done this YEARS ago! It wasn't really until I installed my air bags that I realized how under-sprung and under-damped the front end is!

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the various suspension threads! Your input helped me make what I think will be a great improvement to my rig!

not to resurrect an old dead thread, but did you, or anyone else..., have to trim your bump stop when you installed the bags. the 60809 kit instructions say to cut off the bottom 2/3rds. I am assuming since you had them installed when stock that they were already trimmed. how much space do you have between top of bag and bottom of bump? could a factory length fit in there? I have the Toytech HD coils and am looking to see if the bags will be my best option.

 

[Doozi]

not to resurrect an old dead thread, but did you, or anyone else..., have to trim your bump stop when you installed the bags. the 60809 kit instructions say to cut off the bottom 2/3rds. I am assuming since you had them installed when stock that they were already trimmed. how much space do you have between top of bag and bottom of bump? could a factory length fit in there? I have the Toytech HD coils and am looking to see if the bags will be my best option.

This thread has some discussion about the different heights of air bags...
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/233757-superflex-firestone-airbag-opnions.html

And J.A.'s page has a ton of info...
2007 Toyota 4Runner Air Lift