Taking Legal Action...Lemon Law!
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cknsls@adelphia
New member
Fadiddy said:
I have 50K on my '05 4Runner. I had a rattle in the rear just like you. It turned out to have a loose jack behind that little door in the hatch area. Did anybody check that?
The drivetrain clunk does not happen all the time. Mine only happens when I come to a very fast stop. Lastly-I don't understand owners being so up tight about the sulfur smell. I don't make it a habit of standing around the tail pipe breathing the fumes. Nobody should.
BTW-HOW DOES THE VEHICLE RUN? If Toyota offers you a new vehicle, your best bet IMHO is to grab it. Litigation is far too long and costly. How much of the costs will your Attorney absorb before they ask you for the ongoing costs?
alaskaman
Senior Member
i think it's fair to say that your experience is the exception and sorry for that cuz I know from the sound of it you want quality. bear in mind that the brands you mentioned have problems too. if you want to be sure, a friend says go with Audi. simply unreal customer service.
eskimochaos
Banned
Fadiddy said:
Couple things regarding this thread:
Not EVERY car in Toyota makes will be problem free, unfortunately you received one that's not "perfect" and you rant how their quality is going downhill
The driveshaft clunk noise IS normal and not all 4r's or 4wd toyotas have it due to climate etc.
You bought a toyota AKA FORD of Japan and expect lexus customer service, I have no sympathy with you here
You will not win your lemon-law case, EVERY car has the sulfur smell, the 4r is the only car with power rear window. this creates a vacum when open especially when accelerating allowing the sulfuric gasses inside the car...drive with the rear window up, problem solved = a SOLUTION furthermore, you will not get a new car because of a rattle or a squeak
Lastly, since you expect too much for what your $$ has paid, I wish you the best of luck in finding a car that suits your motel 6 budget with your Ritz Carlton expectancy of customer service and quality
Try to have some sense of rationality please OP!
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eskimochaos
Banned
Fadiddy said:
The X5 is a POS, my dad had one and it didnt deserve to bear the BMW name.
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eskimochaos
Banned
Re: Re: Re: Taking Legal Action...Lemon Law!
Having the AC on has nothing to do with the driveshaft from the Transfer case to the rear differential.....
this thread gets more silly each time I read it....love the fact that you complain about NOT getting lexus service when your paid toyota LOLOLOL!!!!
Fadiddy said:
Having the AC on has nothing to do with the driveshaft from the Transfer case to the rear differential.....
this thread gets more silly each time I read it....love the fact that you complain about NOT getting lexus service when your paid toyota LOLOLOL!!!!
Cybercannon
New member
Sorry to hear you're not happy with it. I love my 05 V8.
I don't know you personally, so no personal offense intended, but your coming across like those customers in restaraunts complaining about every little thing causing the staff and every other customer roll their eyes. I've certainly met many, many patients like that.
I'm agreeing with eskimochaos that because you now have a problem, anecdotally, all toyota quality is "POS." Superlatives are almost always wrong.
It is a 4wd with several differentials and a transfer case built on a truck frame? I guess when I bought mine I expected that stuff. Besides, greasing makes the "clunk" go away pretty easily.
You could have the exhaust bent to exit the side as many have. I've heard from some that something like the gibson cat back also remedies that problem. Hopefully you're not driving with that back window down because fumes are pulled into the vehicle (whether you can smell them or not) and that's not good for you. It's similar to why hair blows forward in a convertible car.
I'm betting the rattle in the back cargo area is something simple and overlooked. Get a kid, girlfriend or whatever back there while driving around a parking lot to pinpoint the location. I also had the jack rattling and fixed it. Another time it was a plastic dongle on the cargo cover. Another time it was something I put in the back/side cargo panel. Get under the back and check wires, lines and fasteners yourself. I don't trust dealers for stuff like that. They're not necessarily specially trained. They're regular guys that live down the street and may or may not be any good at anything they do.
There are certainly times when complaining and lemon laws are necessary. Other times it's extreme and may point to other issues going on.
Perhaps you would be happier with another brand of vehicle, or maybe your expectations are a bit extreme. I don't know you, so I don't know.
I don't know you personally, so no personal offense intended, but your coming across like those customers in restaraunts complaining about every little thing causing the staff and every other customer roll their eyes. I've certainly met many, many patients like that.
I'm agreeing with eskimochaos that because you now have a problem, anecdotally, all toyota quality is "POS." Superlatives are almost always wrong.
It is a 4wd with several differentials and a transfer case built on a truck frame? I guess when I bought mine I expected that stuff. Besides, greasing makes the "clunk" go away pretty easily.
You could have the exhaust bent to exit the side as many have. I've heard from some that something like the gibson cat back also remedies that problem. Hopefully you're not driving with that back window down because fumes are pulled into the vehicle (whether you can smell them or not) and that's not good for you. It's similar to why hair blows forward in a convertible car.
I'm betting the rattle in the back cargo area is something simple and overlooked. Get a kid, girlfriend or whatever back there while driving around a parking lot to pinpoint the location. I also had the jack rattling and fixed it. Another time it was a plastic dongle on the cargo cover. Another time it was something I put in the back/side cargo panel. Get under the back and check wires, lines and fasteners yourself. I don't trust dealers for stuff like that. They're not necessarily specially trained. They're regular guys that live down the street and may or may not be any good at anything they do.
There are certainly times when complaining and lemon laws are necessary. Other times it's extreme and may point to other issues going on.
Perhaps you would be happier with another brand of vehicle, or maybe your expectations are a bit extreme. I don't know you, so I don't know.
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alaskaman
Senior Member
I am not sure cybercannon but I think the guy may have more than a dispute and while I agree with you about the specifics clunking, rotten eggs etc and also think that part of the 4Runners charm is it's true truck status, in my opinion, he is not on the same line as whining customers not getting their eggs right or patients. cuz ya know they are allergic to toradol and only the one that starts with D will work. LOL.
I think that he will be happier is a classy vehicle not built on a frame. To each his own..........
I think that he will be happier is a classy vehicle not built on a frame. To each his own..........
eskimochaos
Banned
First off I don't appreciate your attitude. Furthermore, I feel you are an irrational angry person by nature. Secondly, regarding limited vs sport vs SR5, the difference is leather and power seats...that's essentially it. I'm 19 and got my car brand new as a Christmas present from my parents, they paid in cash, so you want to get into comparing how fat your wallet is lmk because you pulled back the sheets now get in bed. Just because you own limited doesn't mean you are entitled to anything different than anyone else and it certainly doesn't make you better than me or any other member of this forum. Unfortunately, it appears that you are a superficial person that feels you deserve to receive special service for buying a "limited" toyota. You think that "limited" badge means anything special, does that make you sleep well at night knowing you have a toyota that says "limited'?
Third, my mom's 04 LC does make the sulfur smell, you can't smell it while driving because it DOESNT HAVE A REAR WINDOW! Why does it make the smell? Because its the exact same 2UZ-FE V8 engine. The smell you are experiencing is simply due to settling/breaking in of paint/plastic in the engine compartment.
Lastly, you didint pay 40k for service, you paid 40k for a Japanese designed car that has proven itself throughout all 4 of its generations. You have an engine that has proven itself to be bulletproof the last 11 years in production. You pay the extra $$ at Lexus for service you ignorant SOB.
You are being just silly if you think Toyota is going to give you $$ or a new car for your *****ing about a clunk/rattle here or there.
Now please, take your immature b1tching and moaning somewhere else.
Third, my mom's 04 LC does make the sulfur smell, you can't smell it while driving because it DOESNT HAVE A REAR WINDOW! Why does it make the smell? Because its the exact same 2UZ-FE V8 engine. The smell you are experiencing is simply due to settling/breaking in of paint/plastic in the engine compartment.
Lastly, you didint pay 40k for service, you paid 40k for a Japanese designed car that has proven itself throughout all 4 of its generations. You have an engine that has proven itself to be bulletproof the last 11 years in production. You pay the extra $$ at Lexus for service you ignorant SOB.
You are being just silly if you think Toyota is going to give you $$ or a new car for your *****ing about a clunk/rattle here or there.
Now please, take your immature b1tching and moaning somewhere else.
MrTom
Member
*I had a problem with the sulfur smell entering my house through the garage after returning home. My local service representative readily indicated there was a TSB to correct the problem which it did.
*Had a rattle in rear passenger area. TSB for rear armrest/cup holder corrected problem.
*Had a rattling in the rear of the cargo area. Turned out to that the cable to the fuel door had popped out of one of the retained clips. Dealer fixed it under warranty.
*It bumps and clunks; moans and groans under certain situations and I am not pleased that Toyota will do nothing to correct or admit to the problem. Apparently Toyota has forgotten that a happy driver will be a return purchaser. Conversely the Lexus Division has issued numerous TSB's for the Lexus GX470,which have yet to completely correct the problem. Yes it is an annoyance but it has not proven to cause any mechanical malfunctions to my knowledge,so am not sure that is considered defective. Fadiddy's court proceeding may answer that question.
*Suspect that part of the lack of sympathy to Fadiddy's posting is the manipulation of word spellings to vent frustration with disguised profanity.
*Do hope that Fadiddy finds some way to move on to another vehicle and another forum.
*Had a rattle in rear passenger area. TSB for rear armrest/cup holder corrected problem.
*Had a rattling in the rear of the cargo area. Turned out to that the cable to the fuel door had popped out of one of the retained clips. Dealer fixed it under warranty.
*It bumps and clunks; moans and groans under certain situations and I am not pleased that Toyota will do nothing to correct or admit to the problem. Apparently Toyota has forgotten that a happy driver will be a return purchaser. Conversely the Lexus Division has issued numerous TSB's for the Lexus GX470,which have yet to completely correct the problem. Yes it is an annoyance but it has not proven to cause any mechanical malfunctions to my knowledge,so am not sure that is considered defective. Fadiddy's court proceeding may answer that question.
*Suspect that part of the lack of sympathy to Fadiddy's posting is the manipulation of word spellings to vent frustration with disguised profanity.
*Do hope that Fadiddy finds some way to move on to another vehicle and another forum.
Uneek
Super Moderator
The driveline thump/clunk is a seperate issue from the AC. When the AC is on, as the compressor cycles on and off (increasing the load on the engine), if you're stopped and don't have the brakes frimly applied, the creep in engine idle speed is enough to make it feel like you're hit from behind or cause the vehicle surge forward slightly. For tailgaters, you could end up hitting the person in front.
This phenomenon is not exclusive to the 4Runner. It happens in my Tacoma as well and many have reported the same issue with the AC over on ToyotaNation in their Tacomas.
This phenomenon is not exclusive to the 4Runner. It happens in my Tacoma as well and many have reported the same issue with the AC over on ToyotaNation in their Tacomas.
Cybercannon
New member
Fadiddy -
I apologize for my earlier and somewhat rude post. (I'll edit it down) I just don't have a lot of sympathy for complaints after my job. Especially when it appeared that you lept immediatly to bashing and complaining rather than asking all the nice and extremely helpful people on this forum for any help. The search button brings up a wealth of information that may have helped as well.
Reading in one of your past posts you stated the back cargo noise happens over bumps, potholes and quick turns. Could it be a spring creaking? Exhaust not tied up and "rubber" hung correctly. Does it happen with just left or just right turns? If so I'd start looking at springs and suspension traveling parts that need to be lubed, tightened, etc.
Also, please see Mr. Tom's post above. Apparantly there is a TSB for a cupholder rattle and the fuel hose retaining clip is something to consider. I still suggest you get a passanger back there to pinpoint the source as it's happening. It's probably the only way.
It is a very durable and offroad able vehicle with one of the better 4wd systems and center diffs available. I believe you should have to expected to lube and grease the components on a robust and complicated system, and to not expect to have to do that maintenance periodically is kind of foolish. Other manufacturers may not have that issue yet others don't need the accessibility because they aren't in the plains of Africa, mountains of South America or outback of Austrailia. Also, as Uneek stated, the A/C compressor is separate.
As for the sulfer smell there is apparently a TSB on both the V6 and the V8 that I got from another thread after a simple search. Perhaps if you showed this to your dealer, and if only you asked or searched, things would have been resolved. Of course the dealer should have known about it as well.
TSB V6 sulfer smell
TSB V8 sulfer smell
Here is another post by a user having similar issues which were easily resolved. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22125&highlight=sulfer+smell
Again, I absolutely love my 05 V8 sport and do not experience or have issue with the problems you note. The only time I've ever experienced the sulfer is if I stomp the gas peddle and have the back window down. Even then it wasn't very bad. Perhaps the TSB above will fix it, or an aftermarket catback if you're into modding a bit.
Finally, Reading your past posts you actually seemed very happy with the vehicle and the service. I'm guessing you're actually irritated with something that changed/happened at the dealership. Perhaps in your frustration you vented as harshly to them as you did in your OP here and now everyone's rubbed raw? Who knows, but something set you off from being happy and pleased to taking legal action. My experience is that people are willing to work out problems, even severe ones, and won't seek legal representation until they feel personally insulted or attacked.
Sorry to hear you're so upset. Hope you work it out or find something else that fits you.
I apologize for my earlier and somewhat rude post. (I'll edit it down) I just don't have a lot of sympathy for complaints after my job. Especially when it appeared that you lept immediatly to bashing and complaining rather than asking all the nice and extremely helpful people on this forum for any help. The search button brings up a wealth of information that may have helped as well.
Reading in one of your past posts you stated the back cargo noise happens over bumps, potholes and quick turns. Could it be a spring creaking? Exhaust not tied up and "rubber" hung correctly. Does it happen with just left or just right turns? If so I'd start looking at springs and suspension traveling parts that need to be lubed, tightened, etc.
Also, please see Mr. Tom's post above. Apparantly there is a TSB for a cupholder rattle and the fuel hose retaining clip is something to consider. I still suggest you get a passanger back there to pinpoint the source as it's happening. It's probably the only way.
It is a very durable and offroad able vehicle with one of the better 4wd systems and center diffs available. I believe you should have to expected to lube and grease the components on a robust and complicated system, and to not expect to have to do that maintenance periodically is kind of foolish. Other manufacturers may not have that issue yet others don't need the accessibility because they aren't in the plains of Africa, mountains of South America or outback of Austrailia. Also, as Uneek stated, the A/C compressor is separate.
As for the sulfer smell there is apparently a TSB on both the V6 and the V8 that I got from another thread after a simple search. Perhaps if you showed this to your dealer, and if only you asked or searched, things would have been resolved. Of course the dealer should have known about it as well.
TSB V6 sulfer smell
TSB V8 sulfer smell
Here is another post by a user having similar issues which were easily resolved. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22125&highlight=sulfer+smell
Again, I absolutely love my 05 V8 sport and do not experience or have issue with the problems you note. The only time I've ever experienced the sulfer is if I stomp the gas peddle and have the back window down. Even then it wasn't very bad. Perhaps the TSB above will fix it, or an aftermarket catback if you're into modding a bit.
Finally, Reading your past posts you actually seemed very happy with the vehicle and the service. I'm guessing you're actually irritated with something that changed/happened at the dealership. Perhaps in your frustration you vented as harshly to them as you did in your OP here and now everyone's rubbed raw? Who knows, but something set you off from being happy and pleased to taking legal action. My experience is that people are willing to work out problems, even severe ones, and won't seek legal representation until they feel personally insulted or attacked.
Sorry to hear you're so upset. Hope you work it out or find something else that fits you.
MrTom
Member
Not hijacking this thread but if anyone has a problem with the sulfur smell suggest you DO NOT mention anything about the hatch window being down.
Toyota has that covered by stating very clearly in the owners manual to not drive with the rear window down.
PP29 of 2003 Manual in yellow box: " Keep the back window closed while driving. This not only keeps the luggage from being thrown out but also prevents exhaust gases from entering the vehicle."
Aerodynamics will in fact cause your and everyone else's exhaust fumes to be drawn into the vehicle with the hatch window down.
Secondly the smell in some cases is caused by brand of fuel and time of year. Some fuel has higher sulfur content and some states have limitations on the sulfur content or require additional additives.
The TSB seems to be working in most cases from threads I have read.
Toyota has that covered by stating very clearly in the owners manual to not drive with the rear window down.
PP29 of 2003 Manual in yellow box: " Keep the back window closed while driving. This not only keeps the luggage from being thrown out but also prevents exhaust gases from entering the vehicle."
Aerodynamics will in fact cause your and everyone else's exhaust fumes to be drawn into the vehicle with the hatch window down.
Secondly the smell in some cases is caused by brand of fuel and time of year. Some fuel has higher sulfur content and some states have limitations on the sulfur content or require additional additives.
The TSB seems to be working in most cases from threads I have read.
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