Tapping in the high beam circuit for aux light

[JWaldz]

I'm currently doing a project that involves wiring my led light bar with a DPDT (on-off-on) switch that allows for two separate operations. Once toggled in one direction the light bar comes on independently and once toggled the other direction the light bar only comes on when the high beams are activated. I'm having a hell of a time sourcing a high beam circuit that doesn't cause the switch to actually toggle the headlights high and low beam. It seems that with out lights being a bi-xenon light (one light for high and low), the 3 prong connector at the light works in a way that 1 prong is ground, 1 is for general headlight power, and 1 is for toggling high and low. None of which work for me as the light when toggled either doesn't come on, comes on when headlights are on no matter what beam, or does nothing but controls the high/low beams.

I've sourced a wiring diagram (shown below) that worked for a 2nd gen Tacoma but after some discussion we're curious if the difference between our headlight circuit is our 4runners are negatively switched. Meaning that once power is on it's on until turned off but things are cycled by way of supplying a ground. So where would I need to tap into that doesn't control the actual high/low toggle but allows the light bar to come on once it sees the headlight is toggled in a certain direction.. In this case, the high beam??

Does anyone know for sure if our 4runners headlights are negative switched? Could anyone do me a favor and use a meter to see if there is voltage at the headlights with the lights off? If there is that means they are neg switched and I'm in for a whole new ball game as far as wiring goes.

Here's the diagram I'm using. It works for the independent lighting at least.

 

[rideexileex]

Try this link out:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/classic-t4rs/133758-electrical-gurus-2.html#post1283924

Gives a good idea of what you need to do, except for the fact that yes, our headlights are negatively switched. It's better practice to do it this way.

So, based on the picture i just posted, the 86 relay pin would be wired constant hot, and 85 would go to your switch's pole. The throws would then wire to either ground (for on at will) or to your highbeam ground (for on with headlights).

Hope that makes sense...

It's the same I'm using for my reverse LED bar

 

[JWaldz]

The relay I have in place is for the independent function of the switch, not for the part to work with the headlights.

 

[OrangeTexan]

I think your problem is with the jumper between #2 and #5. Wired this way you will always have a signal going to your relay when your dash lights are on. Remove that wire and it should work. You still need power to your switch lights so you actually need a jumper between #2 and #6. Hope that helps.

 

[JWaldz]

I think your problem is with the jumper between #2 and #5. Wired this way you will always have a signal going to your relay when your dash lights are on. Remove that wire and it should work. You still need power to your switch lights so you actually need a jumper between #2 and #6. Hope that helps.

I don't have the switch hooked up to my dash lights, that's just an option.

 

[TheDurk]

DRL 4Runners are positive switched. Non DRL 4Runners are negative switched. No need to test, I'm certain.If you have a US '99 4Runner, as stated in your sig, and as I do, it's negative switched. (Canadian rigs have DRL's).

http://tacoma.site40.net/4Runner_96-02_Repair&Wiring/techinfo.toyota.com/ileaf/ewdtmc2/ewdtmpdf/ewdsourc/2002/024runne/systemci/019hl.pdf

Just leave Pin 4 attached to high-beam tap and connect Pin 6 to a 12V+ key-on source. This is if it goes to a relay coil as stated in the diagram. This is how I did my foglights. But you said you don't have a relay on the headlights? I think you are going to need one.

 

[JWaldz]

I figured that out.. Mine does not have DRL's

Thanks.

 

[OrangeTexan]

I don't have the switch hooked up to my dash lights, that's just an option.

Ahh I see.

I still think its the jumper #2 to #5. Its changing the circuit for the headlights (adding the resistance of the switch light in parallel) and is likely bypassing the headlight high beam switch. I would change the jumper to jump #2 and #6 to isolate that issue, and I would also consider getting my high beam signal for pin #4 from the high beam indicator in the gauge cluster, which looks like the light-blue / black stripe wire going to pin 12 in connector A for the gauge panel.

 

[TheDurk]

Ahh I see.

I still think its the jumper #2 to #5. Its changing the circuit for the headlights (adding the resistance of the switch light in parallel) and is likely bypassing the headlight high beam switch. I would change the jumper to jump #2 and #6 to isolate that issue, and I would also consider getting my high beam signal for pin #4 from the high beam indicator in the gauge cluster, which looks like the light-blue / black stripe wire going to pin 12 in connector A for the gauge panel.

Take another look at that circuit. The high beam indicator light is really a weird one. It works more as a LOW BEAM NOT ON indicator. The High indicator is wired on the negative side of the low-beam filament going to ground. When the lows are off, the ground for the low filament is interrupted and power flows to the hi-beam indicator. When lows are on, there is a direct ground around the hi-beam indicator, and it turns off.

I could help you more but I am not really sure how your relay and light bar are hitched up to the circuit shown. I think you will need a second relay for two reasons

1) to deal with the ground-switched signal
2) to avoid overloading the flimsy negative-side wire to the high-beam filament with the full load of your aux bar.

 

[OrangeTexan]

...When the lows are off, the ground for the low filament is interrupted and power flows to the hi-beam indicator. When lows are on, there is a direct ground around the hi-beam indicator, and it turns off....

That's why I want him to use it as a relay signal. When the lows are off there will be positive voltage on the light-blue / black stripe wire going to the high beam indicator (relative to ground) and the relay will trip. When the lows are on that wire is grounded and will not trip the relay. Should work perfect.

 

[TheDurk]

That's why I want him to use it as a relay signal. When the lows are off there will be positive voltage on the light-blue / black stripe wire going to the high beam indicator (relative to ground) and the relay will trip. When the lows are on that wire is grounded and will not trip the relay. Should work perfect.

I don't think so. It will be south of the low-beam filament resistance and north of only the indicator bulb resistance (relative to ground), so my bet is it won't trip the relay, and the high-beam indicator will stay off because the relay coil will shunt it.. The 12V+ is on the OTHER side of the headlight bulb and that filament will be in series with the relay coil, not good.

 

[OrangeTexan]

Most mechanical relays only require a fraction of the rated voltage to trip, usually around 65%. And the coils always have high enough resistance to control a low amount of amps through it. This will force the majority of the current through the original circuit. Not sure why you think wiring it this way is "not good"? It still has the path to ground through the dash indicator which will be a lower resistance to ground.

 

[TheDurk]

'Not good' compared to just making it a ground switched system. Put 12V+ to one side of the relay coil and put the other side to Pin 5. Pin 6 goes to a full-time ground for independent use and Pin 4 goes to the high beam filament (ground side). Pin 7 goes to 12V+ and Pin 2 goes to ground for the aux dash indicators. Then you get full voltage to the coil, you don't mess with the hi-beam dash indicator, and everything is simple and elegant.

I've never seen a relay coil powered off a cold bulb filament.

Finally, what is this about a 2-5 jumper? That dash line is not a jumper, it just shows the mechanical tie between the two legs of the DPDT switch. They both move as one, that's all.

 

[OrangeTexan]

Yeah I like that a lot better too. He's basically got the switch wired backwards because he's trying to follow a Tacoma circuit.

 

[JWaldz]

Thanks for your help guys.. I think I finally got it figured out. There may be some minor tweaking to do but overall it works. The independent feature works and switch light comes on to indicate it. For the other way, if the switch is toggled it turns on the headlights. I don't know if it's suppose to do that. Then again, that's technically the only time that part of the switch is going to be used is when the headlights are on. However, I run the risk of bumping the switch and not knowing the lights are on b/c the light indicator doesn't come on until the high beams or activated. Might be fixable but then again, might just be something I have to live with and be aware of the risk.

Thanks to a user knows as Pugga off of TacomaWorld, his method seems to be working.

Wire from the positive side of the battery, through the fuse and go directly to the LED bar and pin 86 on the relay.
30 - This wire should ground to the frame
87 - This wire should come from the ground side of the light bar
86 - Incoming power as mentioned above
85 - This wire comes from Pin 5 on the switch

Pin 4 - Ground to the frame
Pin 5 - Comes from relay as mentioned above and keep this jumped to pin 2
Pin 6 - Ground from the high heam negative switch
Pin 7 - This now has to be power in for the switch LEDs

 

[OrangeTexan]

That's essentially what Durk outlined in his last post. The switch is turning your head lights on because of the jumper from 2 to 5. When you switch to that position it is providing a ground to your headlights. To fix this you should change the jumper from 2 to 5 so that it jumps pin 2 to 4, which is now your full time ground.

 

[TheDurk]

That's essentially what Durk outlined in his last post. The switch is turning your head lights on because of the jumper from 2 to 5. When you switch to that position it is providing a ground to your headlights. To fix this you should change the jumper from 2 to 5 so that it jumps pin 2 to 4, which is now your full time ground.

I agree. I greatly fear that you will find that your highs are coming on ANY time there is power to headlights and the switch is in this position, which means both filaments are burning even when only the lows are supposed to be on. This would mean you are blinding drivers and your bulb will die shortly if you use it like that. Please check and let me know if I am right, for your own good and my own curiosity. Of course, you could fry your bulb on the test if you haven't yet set the dimmer to low beam and the 'on-with-highs' switch position at the same time yet.

I apologize OT, I didn't think he was really using this 2-5 jumper. It has to go.

 

[JWaldz]

I'm using bi-xenon HID's (I know, I know).. Anyways, they aren't a dual filament bulb. The high beam signal causes the bulbs reflector to move, widening and throwing the light farther. Everything works as it should, it's just that the switch turns on the headlights even when the headlight switch on the column lever is off. It still turns the led bar on though when I switch to high beams.

 

[OrangeTexan]

I apologize OT, I didn't think he was really using this 2-5 jumper. It has to go.

No problem! We are both just trying to help him out...

 

[Lancelot]

An easy solution

I'm currently doing a project that involves wiring my led light bar with a DPDT (on-off-on) switch that allows for two separate operations. Once toggled in one direction the light bar comes on independently and once toggled the other direction the light bar only comes on when the high beams are activated. I'm having a hell of a time sourcing a high beam circuit that doesn't cause the switch to actually toggle the headlights high and low beam. It seems that with out lights being a bi-xenon light (one light for high and low), the 3 prong connector at the light works in a way that 1 prong is ground, 1 is for general headlight power, and 1 is for toggling high and low. None of which work for me as the light when toggled either doesn't come on, comes on when headlights are on no matter what beam, or does nothing but controls the high/low beams.

I've sourced a wiring diagram (shown below) that worked for a 2nd gen Tacoma but after some discussion we're curious if the difference between our headlight circuit is our 4runners are negatively switched. Meaning that once power is on it's on until turned off but things are cycled by way of supplying a ground. So where would I need to tap into that doesn't control the actual high/low toggle but allows the light bar to come on once it sees the headlight is toggled in a certain direction.. In this case, the high beam??

Does anyone know for sure if our 4runners headlights are negative switched? Could anyone do me a favor and use a meter to see if there is voltage at the headlights with the lights off? If there is that means they are neg switched and I'm in for a whole new ball game as far as wiring goes.

Here's the diagram I'm using. It works for the independent lighting at least.

Hello I have newly get an 4Runner 91 2.4 tubo diesel .I bought a set Bi-xenon and instaled it and goth the same trouble. but the I bought the the new headlamps with lenses and they had a park light lamp underneat the the H4 lamp so i just figurated the polarity from the head lamp soket red to + and black - conekted it that i not used left side H4 .Since the Hid H4 was pluged in on right side.
And conekted the park light bulp insted of higbeam headligt bulb and there every ting worked fine .The indicator lamp light up and the extralaigt rele worked also fine .
Lancelot.