The 3.4L TRD Supercharger Thread

[gamefreakgc]

You can do a "quick and dirty" tune with a methanol injection kit that has a progressive controller. It'll connect to you boost line via a t fitting and turn on at low flow where you set it and at max flow. Seems like the best setups for our 4Runners are to turn on around 1 PSI and max around 5 PSI. Of course, every engine and kit is a bit different. You can also increase or decrease flow with larger or smaller nozzles, some kits will ship you two nozzles just for that purpose.

It's best to install this with a wideband O2 sensor as well so you know where your Air/Fuel Ratios are at and not being completely blind. I researched this heavily and asked around with people I knew who have ran methanol before but finances changed for me so I probably won't be doing this for a while (unless the wife miraculously agrees to it).

Best brands are Coolingmist and AEM. Decent systems are Snow Performance and Devil's Own. Remember though, you want ones with progressive controllers, not just an on/off switch.

Cost: $500-$600 for water injection kit depending on options, $150-$200 for wideband sensor and install (must be welded on exhaust pipe pre-cat).

 

[MTD]

Even with a progressive controller I would still tune it. Like I said it is better to run rich than lean, but the engine will still try to compensate for closed loop.

Here is the one I am going to get:

http://www.amazon.com/AEM-30-3300-1...=1434470498&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=aem+methano

 

[RussToy]

The only knowledge I have of meth is from my Diesel. To me...meth is a win-win! You instantly gain horsepower due to the meth being another/more fuel (from what I understand, this should also help/fix your pinging). And then the water will drop your intake charge, which will also drop your EGT's!! The only negative I see is having to purchase meth (which is pennies per-mile if you buy it in an 55gal drum...not to mention if you just use window washer fluid @ .99 a gallon available at any and every gas station/Walmart) and of course you have to fill the water/meth tank when you get gas.

Something I've notice...know one on here as yet talked about their EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature). I personally believe anyone running any type of boost (turbo or S/C) should be watching their EGT's. Boost causes your intake charge to raise in temperature. Since the air charge is already hotter...it only makes sense that the exhaust gases will be hotter also. Then you add in you're engine is running lean...not enough fuel...that cause even more heat. And if you run that WOT for too long making all this extra heat...you have a good chance of getting so hot...you could actually melt your pistons. It's not a guarantee...but it's diffinetly a possibility.

Think about it like this: you've S/C your 4Runner. You've add some armor (so you're carring more weight, which makes your engine work harder). Bigger wheels and tires...of course the tires are mud tires (even more weight, mud tires don't roll as easy and you haven't re-geared your axels, so your engine isn't running at the correct RPM...again making the engine work a little harder). You're towing your 3-4000lbs camper/boat on the freeway and you hit a 5 mile hill @ 4% grade. If you tried to keep your 70-75mph speed up...good chance your going to melt something before you get to the top of the hill! Even if you weren't towing anything, you could still end up hurting your engine.

I know everyone is getting ready to pounce on me! I can hear it now "...I drove 100mph all the way across Colorado pulling my 45' sailboat! My S/C has a 2.1 pulley on her..she got to be making at least 300hp...she only got 350,000 miles on her and I still got 35mpg and never had a bit of trouble...shoot, you crazy as hell...."!?! All I got to say is: yes Sir, anything is possible. Not saying you will or won't melt a piston. There's a ton a factors that would determine if you made it or not! If you have my luck...you'd be calling AAA at mile marker 1...lol!! But seriously, if you have an EGT gauge...you know you'll make it! It just gives you a warm fuzzy feeling when you can look at your gauge and see you're at 1400* and you know now you should let off the throttle for a bit until things cool down! Again, this is another big benefit to water/meth. The water will help cool your EGT's some 2-300* allowing you to stay in the throttle longer!!

Sorry for the long dissertation...wasn't my intension. Just trying to help guys that know nothing of EGT's...to at least make them aware of them and what can happen if left unchecked.

For what it's worth...that's my $0.02.

- Russel

 

[kigmob]

Thanks for the info.

Can we have a meth vs 7th injection kit discussion? Is one better then the other? Pros vs cons or are they both best used together?

I would hate to have to always worry about the level of the meth. The biggest concern I see with meth is running out or having the controller malfunction. When you run meth, you can run more advanced timing. Also, the ECU will probably run more advanced timing naturally with meth. Say your meth runs out or quits squirting all of a sudden and your running more advanced timing under boost. You could REALLY damage your motor bad... Not saying this cannot be avoided but just seems risky.

For the 7th you forgot

Con:

Only can tune top end
Still allows for knock mid range
Expensive


Also the meth kit is not easy to tune it is just easy to install. To properly tune it you would need a piggy back. That being said the meth kit is attractive in the sense that even if it isnt tuned you won't be wrecking your motor (unless you really f up and flood the motor), just you won't be making as much power.

With the 7th injector kit, you can tune for knock in any range using Map A in the R4 software. The 7th injector delivers more fuel and the timing calibration retards the timing for knock. The 7th helps some with knock, but the main purpose of the timing map is to tune for knock.

 

[MTD]

I would hate to have to always worry about the level of the meth. The biggest concern I see with meth is running out or having the controller malfunction. When you run meth, you can run more advanced timing. Also, the ECU will probably run more advanced timing naturally with meth. Say your meth runs out or quits squirting all of a sudden and your running more advanced timing under boost. You could REALLY damage your motor bad... Not saying this cannot be avoided but just seems risky.




With the 7th injector kit, you can tune for knock in any range using Map A in the R4 software. The 7th injector delivers more fuel and the timing calibration retards the timing for knock. The 7th helps some with knock, but the main purpose of the timing map is to tune for knock.

Knock is an issue, but if you have an afr of 14-15 @ 4lbs then you are still wrecking your motor. Since you can't tune fuel in closed loop the 7th is still uesless. Plus the softwarr is old and clunky...

 

[kigmob]

Knock is an issue, but if you have an afr of 14-15 @ 4lbs then you are still wrecking your motor. Since you can't tune fuel in closed loop the 7th is still uesless. Plus the softwarr is old and clunky...

Most 7th injector kits have a closed loop enrichment module built in. On my unit, it begins to richen the mixture as soon as I hit 1 psi. There is a parameter in the software called "over pressure". You can use this to set when you want the enrichment to begin. Mine came from URD set at 4 psi. I lowered it to 1 psi so as soon as I boost the AFR begins to drop. Very nice feature except it is not really fully tunable. However, I think the AFR calibrator allows for a bit more closed loop tuning but its for the 99+ wideband style sensors which won't work for me. I do agree that the software is old and outdated and that there are much better tuning options out there for the right $. However, the 7th injector kit works just fine for my needs.

 

[MTD]

Most 7th injector kits have a closed loop enrichment module built in. On my unit, it begins to richen the mixture as soon as I hit 1 psi. There is a parameter in the software called "over pressure". You can use this to set when you want the enrichment to begin. Mine came from URD set at 4 psi. I lowered it to 1 psi so as soon as I boost the AFR begins to drop. Very nice feature except it is not really fully tunable. However, I think the AFR calibrator allows for a bit more closed loop tuning but its for the 99+ wideband style sensors which won't work for me. I do agree that the software is old and outdated and that there are much better tuning options out there for the right $. However, the 7th injector kit works just fine for my needs.

Yeah I guess, the issue is that the Closed loop feature doesn't work on the 99+ models so we are stuck buying another unit for an additional $200. I guess the URD makes some sense for the 96-98 guys, but for anything newer the FIC or something else is the way to go.

 

[MTD]

The only knowledge I have of meth is from my Diesel. To me...meth is a win-win! You instantly gain horsepower due to the meth being another/more fuel (from what I understand, this should also help/fix your pinging). And then the water will drop your intake charge, which will also drop your EGT's!! The only negative I see is having to purchase meth (which is pennies per-mile if you buy it in an 55gal drum...not to mention if you just use window washer fluid @ .99 a gallon available at any and every gas station/Walmart) and of course you have to fill the water/meth tank when you get gas.

Something I've notice...know one on here as yet talked about their EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature). I personally believe anyone running any type of boost (turbo or S/C) should be watching their EGT's. Boost causes your intake charge to raise in temperature. Since the air charge is already hotter...it only makes sense that the exhaust gases will be hotter also. Then you add in you're engine is running lean...not enough fuel...that cause even more heat. And if you run that WOT for too long making all this extra heat...you have a good chance of getting so hot...you could actually melt your pistons. It's not a guarantee...but it's diffinetly a possibility.

Think about it like this: you've S/C your 4Runner. You've add some armor (so you're carring more weight, which makes your engine work harder). Bigger wheels and tires...of course the tires are mud tires (even more weight, mud tires don't roll as easy and you haven't re-geared your axels, so your engine isn't running at the correct RPM...again making the engine work a little harder). You're towing your 3-4000lbs camper/boat on the freeway and you hit a 5 mile hill @ 4% grade. If you tried to keep your 70-75mph speed up...good chance your going to melt something before you get to the top of the hill! Even if you weren't towing anything, you could still end up hurting your engine.

I know everyone is getting ready to pounce on me! I can hear it now "...I drove 100mph all the way across Colorado pulling my 45' sailboat! My S/C has a 2.1 pulley on her..she got to be making at least 300hp...she only got 350,000 miles on her and I still got 35mpg and never had a bit of trouble...shoot, you crazy as hell...."!?! All I got to say is: yes Sir, anything is possible. Not saying you will or won't melt a piston. There's a ton a factors that would determine if you made it or not! If you have my luck...you'd be calling AAA at mile marker 1...lol!! But seriously, if you have an EGT gauge...you know you'll make it! It just gives you a warm fuzzy feeling when you can look at your gauge and see you're at 1400* and you know now you should let off the throttle for a bit until things cool down! Again, this is another big benefit to water/meth. The water will help cool your EGT's some 2-300* allowing you to stay in the throttle longer!!

Sorry for the long dissertation...wasn't my intension. Just trying to help guys that know nothing of EGT's...to at least make them aware of them and what can happen if left unchecked.

For what it's worth...that's my $0.02.

- Russel

Russ you need a TLDR (Too long didnt read) Lol :rockon:

 

[gamefreakgc]

I would hate to have to always worry about the level of the meth. The biggest concern I see with meth is running out or having the controller malfunction. When you run meth, you can run more advanced timing. Also, the ECU will probably run more advanced timing naturally with meth. Say your meth runs out or quits squirting all of a sudden and your running more advanced timing under boost. You could REALLY damage your motor bad... Not saying this cannot be avoided but just seems risky.

Any methanol kit worth buying will have a low-level indicator light to let you know of this exact situation. Other users have posted up saying that they fill it the same time they fill their gas and it doesn't ever run out before then.

And Russ, your post is spot on. A guy who works at the shop I go to Supercharged his Tacoma and drove it like a dork non-stop. Guess what happened to his valves and cylinder heads? :flame:

 

[shootmymime]

Yeah I guess, the issue is that the Closed loop feature doesn't work on the 99+ models so we are stuck buying another unit for an additional $200. I guess the URD makes some sense for the 96-98 guys, but for anything newer the FIC or something else is the way to go.

With mine 2000 I am able to change when it sprays my 7th at any time. It would start at 4 but I could feel some hesitation or just not enough fuel at that point so I bumped it down to 3 psi. It works much better and runs great. Even with my 2.2 pulley. I really didn't notice much change between the 2 pulleys. Plus all my numbers still look good at that range.

So with my numbers looking good as it is I'm debating on going in and doing a couple dyno pulls to see if I can make it any better.

So when I'm boosting anything under 3 psi I feel like I'm just wasting fuel. Plus I have never experienced high gear low rpm ping. It just drives and has power to pull hills without even dropping into passing gear just to maintain speed. I find myself cruising more above the speed limit now just because it takes less pressure on the accelerator to get it to speed up.

POWARRRRRRR

 

[MTD]

With mine 2000 I am able to change when it sprays my 7th at any time. It would start at 4 but I could feel some hesitation or just not enough fuel at that point so I bumped it down to 3 psi. It works much better and runs great. Even with my 2.2 pulley. I really didn't notice much change between the 2 pulleys. Plus all my numbers still look good at that range.

So with my numbers looking good as it is I'm debating on going in and doing a couple dyno pulls to see if I can make it any better.

So when I'm boosting anything under 3 psi I feel like I'm just wasting fuel. Plus I have never experienced high gear low rpm ping. It just drives and has power to pull hills without even dropping into passing gear just to maintain speed. I find myself cruising more above the speed limit now just because it takes less pressure on the accelerator to get it to speed up.

POWARRRRRRR

What afr do you see at 3 psi tho? I know the ECU is fighting the extar fuel at that point by pulling timing.

 

[shootmymime]

14.8.

 

[MTD]

14.8.

Thats exactly what I get untuned ie the 7th is doing jack... I am shooting for 13 at part throttle and 11.6ish at WOT

 

[shootmymime]

Thats exactly what I get untuned ie the 7th is doing jack... I am shooting for 13 at part throttle and 11.6ish at WOT

WELL YEAH RIGHT AT 3 sorry, it kicks in and goes to like 13.5-7 iirc. then when at WOT im around 11.8-12

 

[MTD]

WELL YEAH RIGHT AT 3 sorry, it kicks in and goes to like 13.5-7 iirc. then when at WOT im around 11.8-12

Ah ic you are not too far off then I guess. It still may be beneficial to get the AFR calibrator though. You will get the most power and efficiency in the high 12's and low 13's

 

[shootmymime]

Ah ic you are not too far off then I guess. It still may be beneficial to get the AFR calibrator though. You will get the most power and efficiency in the high 12's and low 13's

what does it do? ive heard people talk about it.

 

[MTD]

what does it do? ive heard people talk about it.

It skews the O2 sensor signal so that the ecu thinks its at 14.7 and that then lets you tune closed loop.

 

[kigmob]

what does it do? ive heard people talk about it.

What did you change in the software when you changed from 4 psi to 3 psi? Was it the over pressure? Or the actual 7th fuel map? Go in the software and see if you can change a parameter called over pressure. I think its under output settings. This will allow for closed loop enrichment and you can decide when you would like for it to kick in. This feature does not use the 7th but instead messes with the o2 signal to drop the AFR in closed loop. If you don't have this feature, then you may need an AFR calibrator. I am not sure which units have this feature built in. I know mine does. MTD might be right and it might be built in only for 99 and older Toyotas that have the narrow band sensor.

 

[MTD]

What did you change in the software when you changed from 4 psi to 3 psi? Was it the over pressure? Or the actual 7th fuel map? Go in the software and see if you can change a parameter called over pressure. I think its under output settings. This will allow for closed loop enrichment and you can decide when you would like for it to kick in. This feature does not use the 7th but instead messes with the o2 signal to drop the AFR in closed loop. If you don't have this feature, then you may need an AFR calibrator. I am not sure which units have this feature built in. I know mine does. MTD might be right and it might be built in only for 99 and older Toyotas that have the narrow band sensor.

I called URD back when I started researching what I wanted to tune my truck with and they confirmed that 99+ cannot be tuned in closed loop with the 7th alone.

 

[shootmymime]

What did you change in the software when you changed from 4 psi to 3 psi? Was it the over pressure? Or the actual 7th fuel map? .

yes it is on map b. ill have to check on overage. wife has the truck today.