The 4Runner Triangle of Greatness

[NoVAphotog]

Posing a question in my search for another '99-00 3rd Gen 4x4 5MT:

Which is paramount at this point?

• Cleanliness (rust, interior wear/tear, paint condition, etc)
  
• Maintenance History (big ticket items addressed, oil changes, fluids, tune ups, etc)
  
• Miles (what is considered "too high" and/or how does it relate to the second bullet)

I found a local truck (White/Tan 1999 4x4, 5MT, 248k, $5900 obo):

SUPER clean. Virtually no rust other than a couple patches of minor surface rust underneath. Paint is flawless. Interior shows some age, but nothing bad at all.

VERY limited history. Guy handed me a SLIVER of a maintenance folder and said he is a DIY guy and gets parts from the junkyard and "doesn't like mechanics" so he doesn't keep receipts...Don't get me wrong, I've done basically everything myself with the E46...but I've got a folder 3 inches thick with order invoices from sites, excel sheets of parts/budgets, etc so maybe I'm biased, but to just "fix stuff" and not have ANYTHING...come on...

Doesn't know if clutch has ever been done. Doesn't know about ball joints, doesn't know about seals, NEVER has used the 4WD (light doesn't come on), clutch slipping, leaks, etc, etc. Questions just building up...

Arrived at the end of the drive/talk to $5k. 248k, 7 years "corporate owned" in CA (no records), the rest here with virtually no history recorded, super clean.

So, is it worth it or keep looking for a "happy medium" truck, not as clean, but with better records? I should mention I do plan on off-roading...nothing crazy build wise, but "perfect" paint is not a priority if I'm going to go out and mess with it.

Tl:dr Is 248k too high regardless of the condition of the truck if there is NOTHING to go off maintenance wise than someone's word and how it drives?

 

[GHARP57]

I think 3k is a better price. Too many unknowns with what you have listed. My brother paid 3200 for his 99 with 230k miles on it a couple years ago. and we are here in Va too.

 

[NoVAphotog]

I think 3k is a better price. Too many unknowns with what you have listed. My brother paid 3200 for his 99 with 230k miles on it a couple years ago. and we are here in Va too.

Agreed. Owner "knew what he had" and wasn't budging so I told him I'd sleep on it. The concepts I'm asking about are in general as I didn't really feel like that one was it for me, but the truck was a good example for the different points and how they relate going forward.

 

[LookAtThatDog]

After doing all that maintenance that he doesn't know about (ball joints, seals, leaks, fluids, filters) plus new clutch and 4x4 repair, you'd probly have a truck worth 4.5-6k assuming the tires aren't dramatically new or old. The price tag is the only issue for me. Good luck!

 

[MattJakobs]

Depending on your budget, I would definitely keep looking. Just to give you an idea, we payed $2500 for our one owner 99 with 240k at the time. It was dealer maintained, no rust, as clean as it gets. I'm some what local to you so consider that.

With that many miles and no records, you don't know what to do so you may end up doing it all. Ball joints would be something I would do sooner rather than later. We also don't take ours to the dealership, instead do everything ourselves or take it to a retiring master tech and he does it at his house. No invoices or receipts but I still make sure to record it in a binder.

 

[cashmoney]

Forums think the general public keep service and maintenance records. We don't. I couldn't give you a single service record other than my tire rotations because I throw the receipts away. Not sure why I keep tire rotation receipts? Oh there's the oil change sticker on the windshield. Forgot about that. It's a rarity to find someone who keeps maintenance records. Hell I've yet to buy a used car that came with any maintenance records and I've yet to have a single problem. I'm dang sure not going to pay anyone more money because they hoard receipts. Not to mention that these are 20yr+ old mass produced vehicles with parts a plenty across the nation. Easy enough to fix anything that might come up.

 

[wake_rider]

Too much with the assumption that all the things he doesn't know about, you can pretty much add up to needing to replace. With you doing all the work, you're still looking at >$1k in parts alone, so take that into consideration. Is a truck with 250k and little to no records worth >$6k to you?

That's the question you have to answer. If it were me, I would leave him my info if he should come to his senses, show him my backside, and keep my search going.

 

[NoVAphotog]

Forums think the general public keep service and maintenance records. We don't. I couldn't give you a single service record other than my tire rotations because I throw the receipts away. Not sure why I keep tire rotation receipts? Oh there's the oil change sticker on the windshield. Forgot about that. It's a rarity to find someone who keeps maintenance records. Hell I've yet to buy a used car that came with any maintenance records and I've yet to have a single problem. I'm dang sure not going to pay anyone more money because they hoard receipts. Not to mention that these are 20yr+ old mass produced vehicles with parts a plenty across the nation. Easy enough to fix anything that might come up.

I definitely agree, it's not that I'm looking for a bible and it's not something that would necessarily add value, but it just gives you that warm and fuzzy feeling...

 

[NoVAphotog]

Too much with the assumption that all the things he doesn't know about, you can pretty much add up to needing to replace. With you doing all the work, you're still looking at >$1k in parts alone, so take that into consideration. Is a truck with 250k and little to no records worth >$6k to you?

That's the question you have to answer. If it were me, I would leave him my info if he should come to his senses, show him my backside, and keep my search going.

He and I got along great so I did leave him info...see what happens. And No, it's not, but the problem is in the DC area the seller's market is especially strong. Someone is going to buy that truck for 5k within the week. My search is nationwide, I don't mind traveling for the right truck so it's not an issue for me, but as a seller, he could care less what I think in this area.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Forums think the general public keep service and maintenance records. We don't. I couldn't give you a single service record other than my tire rotations because I throw the receipts away. Not sure why I keep tire rotation receipts? Oh there's the oil change sticker on the windshield. Forgot about that. It's a rarity to find someone who keeps maintenance records. Hell I've yet to buy a used car that came with any maintenance records and I've yet to have a single problem. I'm dang sure not going to pay anyone more money because they hoard receipts. Not to mention that these are 20yr+ old mass produced vehicles with parts a plenty across the nation. Easy enough to fix anything that might come up.

That's totally it... I don't keep receipts. I do keep records of what I do in the owner's manual though (changed 90k service to "1"90k). It does give a good indication of what's been done, but a quick inspection of a vehicle will tell you what's been replaced and what hasn't. Any dealer or shop worth the money will put a replacement sticker for a timing belt job, etc.

I just think it's silly when people charge $500-$1000 extra just because they can give you a pile of receipts. Maybe that works for some people but not me.

 

[NoVAphotog]

250k miles on it for $5000? I would laugh at the guy as Im driving off. :flipoff:

She is pretty though... [emoji14]

 

[unrealii]

I was faced with the same triangle and picked cleanliness. I figured it would be easier to do maintenance on the car than repaint, rust repair, interior repair, body repair, etc. Here's more info for a datapoint for you:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/209146-new-me-2002-sportedition-4wd.html

I had do a timing belt and did a lot of other maintenance since I did not know the history. I pulled the carfax and it showed the seller routinely went to the dealer and pepboys, so I think the basic items were addressed. The timing belt was 40K past due but my seller wouldn't budge on price since he knew he was selling under bluebook. This car was a 1 owner but he had no records. It had never been used in 4wd nor offroaded so I felt okay with it. My mechanic confirmed everything looked good when he did the maintenance on it.

At that pricepoint it will probably it probably won't sell THAT quickly. You can request to have a mechanic inspect it then use the findings to beat down on the price. Unfortunately, that is a rare car and it is a seller's market.

 

[cashmoney]

For the record, I got mine for $3700 with 218k and it needed tires and shocks in a bad way.

 

[9494runner]

That's totally it... I don't keep receipts. I do keep records of what I do in the owner's manual though (changed 90k service to "1"90k). It does give a good indication of what's been done, but a quick inspection of a vehicle will tell you what's been replaced and what hasn't. Any dealer or shop worth the money will put a replacement sticker for a timing belt job, etc.

I just think it's silly when people charge $500-$1000 extra just because they can give you a pile of receipts. Maybe that works for some people but not me.

You mean all of those part invoices and pepboy receipts in my glove box that usually keep it from closing?? I used some to start a fire camping in big bear... other than that those don't do it for me either...

 

[markymark191]

I have had a tough time trying to find a 4runner in these last couple months or so. Its hard being around minneapolis to find one that doesnt have a bunch of rust. I have also wondered about maintenance history and how important it is, so it is interesting to hear how some dont seem like it matters. I would much rather have a clean body with more miles than vice versa, but im also not sure how much is too many. I am looking around not going above 215,000 if I can. but maybe going higher than that is ok? Would you guys rather have a 4runner in the same condition and price with one that has 210,000 miles with no maintenance history or one with 250,000 with all maintenance history?

 

[markymark191]

I have, I am looking around minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, south and north dakota. At this time though it is hard for me to get away for a few days to go much further than that. What would be really nice is to just take a week and fly down to arizona or texas and drive one back up to minnesota. Oh well hopefully one will come up soon! Thanks though for the advice!

 

[markymark191]

That looks really clean, but I cant spend more than 5k... that is probably part of my problem too.. If you find any others around that price let me know though! :thumb3:

 

[pluton]

Forums think the general public keep service and maintenance records. We don't. I couldn't give you a single service record other than my tire rotations because I throw the receipts away.

I know most don't...but some do, and those that do can get at least a bit more $$$ at resale time.
Of course, most folks are desperate to sell their car, either because they desperately need the money, or they expect the car to blow up and want desperately for it to blow up for the new owner.
I love watching the faces of the low ballers, whom I have already told what my "bottom floor" price is, when they try to "bargain me down" and I tell them: "Oh, if you don't think it's worth that much, then don't buy it."
I save receipts because it matters for tax purposes.
It costs a dollar to buy a small notebook to record service history.

 

[kurticus91]

Looks nice, but like others have said, it seems expensive for the mileage

 

[NoVAphotog]

I have had a tough time trying to find a 4runner in these last couple months or so. Its hard being around minneapolis to find one that doesnt have a bunch of rust. I have also wondered about maintenance history and how important it is, so it is interesting to hear how some dont seem like it matters. I would much rather have a clean body with more miles than vice versa, but im also not sure how much is too many. I am looking around not going above 215,000 if I can. but maybe going higher than that is ok? Would you guys rather have a 4runner in the same condition and price with one that has 210,000 miles with no maintenance history or one with 250,000 with all maintenance history?

This is why I posted it as a triangle kind of like the customer service triangle of greatness "timely, respectful, quality" pick two or school..."sleep, social life or good grades" pick two. "Miles, condition, records"...hopefully have all three but which are important as it relates to price.

I would buy a higher mileage 4runner with a maintenance history. I would have bought this truck if he had handed me a fleshed out maintenance folder with the big ticket items addressed or at least have enough to back up his $5,900 asking price and make me feel at ease instead of simply nodding his head as I ran down the laundry list of things that someone mentioned above I would have to address immediately since "we" didn't know the status.

I could see him thinking..."yeah it would be nice to know if the clutch has been replaced, but I don't give a shit because this truck is clean and I want my money and you can pay for it after I get my land cruiser"