The Mid Travel Thread

[MTD]

Yea, like I said everything is pretty apples to oranges unless you have two shocks setup identical back to back. Obviously you can modify your valving stack so it'll soften/stiffen at higher velocities, but from what I understand the piston design is what determines if a shock is progressive or digressive, it's not a function of the valving (at least as far as terminology is concerned). I may be wrong though...

You are right but so am I lol because the piston detained the type of valving style used. From what I've read digressive seems to be the way to go if you are doing fast stuff. And progressive, even though it is older technology, seems to be nice for off road, slow stuff, because it allows the suspension to flex easier.

 

[MTD]

http://www.bestcoiloverguide.com/coilover-parts/shock-valving/


http://www.dvosuspension.com/blog/suspension-lesson-progressive-vs-digressive-curves/

 

[snivilous]

From what I've read digressive seems to be the way to go if you are doing fast stuff. And progressive, even though it is older technology, seems to be nice for off road, slow stuff, because it allows the suspension to flex easier.

I've read the opposite, that digressive is good for crawling since you're getting a lot of damping at low speeds where as with progressive you want the shock damping to be increasing with a hard hit so there's less chance of bottoming out.

There's not much info out there from what I can find with technical people talking. As seems to be the norm with offroading, people just run what other people tell them and never actually figure out or discuss at a technical level how to optimize performance :doh:

 

[MTD]

I've read the opposite, that digressive is good for crawling since you're getting a lot of damping at low speeds where as with progressive you want the shock damping to be increasing with a hard hit so there's less chance of bottoming out.

There's not much info out there from what I can find with technical people talking. As seems to be the norm with offroading, people just run what other people tell them and never actually figure out or discuss at a technical level how to optimize performance :doh:

Your right about that, I try not to read the forums for my info. Good example of this is everyone going 7th injector if they are supercharged and I am going AEM piggy back.

 

[snivilous]

Your right about that, I try not to read the forums for my info. Good example of this is everyone going 7th injector if they are supercharged and I am going AEM piggy back.

Yea man, lately I've been doing calculations for my new springs I'm gonna run and basing it around suspension frequency. I've found two offroad places online where anyone even mentions suspension frequency, I've started focusing on track racing sites since they go way more indepth into suspension performance. Majority of offroad people just care about wheel travel and ride height, which doesn't say anything about how well the suspension actually performs.

By the way, something to pertain to this thread: http://www.dezertrangers.com/vb/general-off-road-talk/28367.htm That thread has a bit of good info about shock valving.

 

[A.Wilson013]

Your right about that, I try not to read the forums for my info. Good example of this is everyone going 7th injector if they are supercharged and I am going AEM piggy back.

I hope you can figure it out. I tried a handful of different setups prior to the 7th injector and they all fell on their faces... The simplicity of the 7th is great for us backyard mechanics.

But I guess this is for another thread.

You and [MENTION=92884]snivilous[/MENTION] keep double dutch ruddering each other now. =D

 

[MTD]

I hope you can figure it out. I tried a handful of different setups prior to the 7th injector and they all fell on their faces... The simplicity of the 7th is great for us backyard mechanics.

But I guess this is for another thread.

You and [MENTION=92884]snivilous[/MENTION] keep double dutch ruddering each other now. =D

Don't worry I'm smatter than your average bear

Sniv and I just enjoy jabbering pay no attention to us lol

 

[MTD]

I hope you can figure it out. I tried a handful of different setups prior to the 7th injector and they all fell on their faces... The simplicity of the 7th is great for us backyard mechanics.

But I guess this is for another thread.

You and [MENTION=92884]snivilous[/MENTION] keep double dutch ruddering each other now. =D

You should PM me though with what you've tried I'd be curious to see.

 

[absalom]

What's the general consensus on FOA suspension? I was originally set on going with Kings, but FOA is literally 50% cheaper. Any thoughts?

 

[A.Wilson013]

What's the general consensus on FOA suspension? I was originally set on going with Kings, but FOA is literally 50% cheaper. Any thoughts?

All I know is that their 2.5" bumpstops are $150... That's very interesting to me.

Edit** But then I googled 'FOA Bumpstops' and found a thread on Pirate which has me not interested.

 

[A.Wilson013]

I think most onroad shocks (Bilstein and Icon) are digressive since it gives better road feedback but if you hit a pot hole will soften up for it, and most offroad shocks (Kings, SAW, Fox) are progressive since you want the suspension to stiffen if you hit something hard.

Just curious... What makes an Icon shock "onroad" and the others "offroad"...?

 

[absalom]

All I know is that their 2.5" bumpstops are $150... That's very interesting to me.

Edit** But then I googled 'FOA Bumpstops' and found a thread on Pirate which has me not interested.

I'm reading that same thread currently. If you haven't read all the way through, I encourage you to. Apparently their customer service is amazing and really goes out of their way to rectify issues.

Every shock company has issues from time to time. I recall a forum member here having issues with his nearly brand new Icons and being SOL with repairs.

I'm certainly not defending FOA, but hearing about their customer service has me willing to take the risk of trying them out. I'll let you know how it works out.

FWIW, the setup I want is $2,100 from King while the exact same setup is $980 from FOA. Not bad.

 

[snivilous]

Just curious... What makes an Icon shock "onroad" and the others "offroad"...?

I'm just classifying them as onroad because of their most common piston design (digressive) along with the fact the majority of "hardcore" offroad sports/people don't run them. That's not a jab at anyone running Icons, just the fact even though people say "pick any color and run it" most Ultra4s, prerunners, TTs, sand rails, rock bouncers, etc. seem to run Kings and Fox and sometimes other brands, but rarely do I see Icons or Bilsteins for example. Again, just my subjective point of view, not saying you can't run them offroad or vice versa with the other brands, but just a pattern I've seen in design and application.

 

[absalom]

I'm just classifying them as onroad because of their most common piston design (digressive) along with the fact the majority of "hardcore" offroad sports/people don't run them. That's not a jab at anyone running Icons, just the fact even though people say "pick any color and run it" most Ultra4s, prerunners, TTs, sand rails, rock bouncers, etc. seem to run Kings and Fox and sometimes other brands, but rarely do I see Icons or Bilsteins for example. Again, just my subjective point of view, not saying you can't run them offroad or vice versa with the other brands, but just a pattern I've seen in design and application.

Sniv, chime in with your thoughts on FOA!

 

[snivilous]

Sniv, chime in with your thoughts on FOA!

I followed a few threads about FOA and came to the same conclusions, they were super shitty at first but have gotten a lot better and have good customer service. My shocks have been fine, they're definitely not super high end but the internals are essentially identical to the big name brands from what I've read. I think if you're on a budget FOAs will work well, and use them as a stepping stone to the big name shocks. Honestly I wouldn't run their shocks if I could afford some Kings, though their gear has also performed fine for me. If I buy more FOAs what I would do is take the shock apart and check everything, I think the main difference between FOAs and some Kings is the assembly process and fine details (like my shocks didn't come valved correctly, not a big issue since I tear down shocks often to adjust the valving to my liking but for someone who doesn't want to play with all the details of a shock would rather just throw some Kings in and not look back). I will buy some of their bump stops in the next few days since they're cheaper and will be identical to a big name brand, and it's a simple product with limited cycles so I don't think the extra $50 for another brand is justified. I think their coilovers and stuff are okay running. I probably wouldn't run their bypasses just since I don't trust their manufacturing and assembly process enough for a more complicated shock like that. Again, I think using them as a stepping stone to a fancy shock should be the approach to take which is what I'm doing.

So in summary, if you can afford better shocks get those, if you can only afford FOAs then they'll still do well but might require some fiddling.

These are the 10" coilovers I'm running after I rebuilt them two weeks ago.

 

[MojaveMadMan]

The big thing I hear from everyone is that they tend to leak almost right away, or in the first couple thousand miles. The main reason is their quality assurance steps suck. Most people who take the shocks apart will find metal shavings or burs on parts. If I were to buy FOA's I would order them with a new seal kit too. Then before insallation I would take them appart and check for any stuff like metal shavings that would cause seals to fail. Clean them out, make sure stuff is good, and they should work fine.

Like stated above, a great stepping stone shock or something for a lower budget build. Shocks are super easy to rebuild once you have done it a couple times so if you don't mind getting your hands dirty, they can be maintained and used well. If you are the type that wants to send your shocks to a shop to get them rebuilt, don't buy them because you will spend the cost difference in rebuilds very quickly... But keep in mind all shocks need a rebuild from time to time. Cheaper shocks like 5100 or OME's are not rebuild-able and would need replacement every few years if you wanted to get optimal performance from them. The more expensive shocks can be rebuilt for $25 each DIY. So that is something to keep in mine.

 

[absalom]

Words

This helps a lot. Looks like I'm going with FOA after the conversion! Thanks for your help Sniv

 

[4-Ripcord]

I had planned to pull the trigger on a full Icon setup in the next month. How soon are you looking to get the FOA stuff? I am curious to see your opinion on it once you get it.

 

[absalom]

I had planned to pull the trigger on a full Icon setup in the next month. How soon are you looking to get the FOA stuff? I am curious to see your opinion on it once you get it.

It's stage 3 of my build, so it'd be after my conversion.

Honestly, the full Icon setup is super amazing. I fell in love the first time I drove it. If I weren't such an impulsive early adopter and underdog supporter, I would buy that as well. Then again, it's hard to go wrong with a setup that's exactly 1/2 the price of an equal Icon/King/Fox setup. Looking forward to seeing what you run Rip.

Are you going dual front shocks? Air bumps? Which rear coils are you going to run?

 

[4-Ripcord]

It's stage 3 of my build, so it'd be after my conversion.

Honestly, the full Icon setup is super amazing. I fell in love the first time I drove it. If I weren't such an impulsive early adopter and underdog supporter, I would buy that as well. Then again, it's hard to go wrong with a setup that's exactly 1/2 the price of an equal Icon/King/Fox setup. Looking forward to seeing what you run Rip.

Are you going dual front shocks? Air bumps? Which rear coils are you going to run?

No dual shocks, but air bumps are a definite possibility. I am still piecing the setup together, but I am leaning towards superflex coils and 12" shock in the rear.

Does anyone have experience with Walker Evans? Their prices are in between FOA and King/Icon