Actually in this case it does....There are MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of oil changes done every year...and the VAST majority use Fram filters....There would be engines dying all over the place if they were making a cheap filter. Now if they only sold a few hundred thousand filters a year..then I'd agree..but they sell tens of millions every year.
The truth about oil filters Toyota Oil Filter (Made in Thailand) vs. the competition.
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Actually in this case it does....There are MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of oil changes done every year...and the VAST majority use Fram filters....There would be engines dying all over the place if they were making a cheap filter. Now if they only sold a few hundred thousand filters a year..then I'd agree..but they sell tens of millions every year.
But maybe those same engines using the Fram or other cheap filter could have gone an extra 10k, 20k or even 50k miles before wearing out/having excessive oil consumption or maybe they have more oil consumption than other filters at middle of the road miles. You have no idea and no one has been collecting data. You can make a very accurate scientific hypothesis that a cheap filter that does not filter down to as small a micron level will indeed cause an engine to not last as long as its potential.
And yes, the molecules in synthetic oil do NOT break down over time. The additives in the oil can and do that is a why oil analysis is done to see what may need to be added. A good filter that can filter those tiny carbon molecules will extend drain intervals without any added wear to your engine.
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KB084RUNNER
New member
There are just way too many variables to know...but all I know is that I got a case of Fram TG filters from a Rock Auto close out for about $2 each and a 5 quart jug of Quaker State Torque power 5w30 synthetic oil on close out at WalMart for $9 (with a $10 rebate) ....so my current synthetic oil change cost me $1. :banana:
So, I'll dump it at 5000 and re-fill for another $1
So, I'll dump it at 5000 and re-fill for another $1
Sorry..but that's wrong...Synthetic oil DOES break down...just not as easily as conventional motor oil. It's less prone to breakdown..but it DOES breakdown.
Synthetic Oil
Conventional Petroleum Oil Vs. Synthetic Oil - Which Is Better? - Mini Truckin' Magazine
That's right...there is no data on that..so you can't make an assumption that Fram filters are NOT good or perform poorly. MOST people will NEVER keep their vehicles long enough to know.
I've personally kept 3 vehicles well past 300k miles on nothing but Fram filters....And not one was burning oil when I sold them. And I admit it's a small test.
Mike, I need to clarify this a little better. Synthetic oil molecules are strong and uniform as compared to dino oil molecules. Because of this they are much more resistant to thermal and oxidative breakdown. They are virtually impervious to breakdown under normal operating temps. They only start to breakdown under extreme temperature conditions. So technically yes they can breakdown, but for normal use they will not break down and under extreme conditions they will continue to protect when conventional oil fails which is what I was referring too since we are not on a Top Fuel dragster forum.
Agree 100%
It's accumulative......Not just what the temp is...but how long it's been at that temp...Since the introduction of unleaded gas engines have run a lot hotter....At these temps synthetic oil WILL break down..but it'll take a lot longer for it to happen. But eventually even synthetic oil will break down.
You got that right, i put 300k + on my 98 4 Runner with all types of filters..none of which were OEM unless there was a coupon...
BlackWorksInc
New member
Another thing to note is that so called "Synthetic Oil" Is not in fact 100% Synthetic, most of it is base dino oil with synthetic mix.
Actually there are a couple of ways to make synthetic oil. 100% pure synthetic oil is NOT the same as synthetic blend.
The Group III synthetics (Mobil-1 and Castrol to name a few) use mineral oil as it's base stock...where as Group IV (Amsoil) uses esters as it's base stock.
BOTH are some form of hydrocarbon compounds. Where as mineral oil is naturally occurring. Ester base stocks help create a more stable and uniform structure.
A blend is taking a Group III synthetic oil and mixing in just regular dyno oil.
The Group III synthetics (Mobil-1 and Castrol to name a few) use mineral oil as it's base stock...where as Group IV (Amsoil) uses esters as it's base stock.
BOTH are some form of hydrocarbon compounds. Where as mineral oil is naturally occurring. Ester base stocks help create a more stable and uniform structure.
A blend is taking a Group III synthetic oil and mixing in just regular dyno oil.
Mobil 1 synthetic uses Group III base stock??? Can you quote some sources on that?
Last I heard Mobil still uses Group IV PAO base stock.
Now, Mobil has come out with a line of 'cheaper' synthetic oil (Mobil Super) which may use Group III base stock, but I believe their 'Mobil 1' is still a true synthetic.
Last I heard Mobil still uses Group IV PAO base stock.
Now, Mobil has come out with a line of 'cheaper' synthetic oil (Mobil Super) which may use Group III base stock, but I believe their 'Mobil 1' is still a true synthetic.
I do remember reading about it a few years ago...I've been doing some quick searching for the past 20 minutes and can't find any evidence one way or the other. Mobil isn't very forth coming about it. I'll do some more research later and see if I can find something. What I did find was many websites claiming that Mobil-1 did convert to Group III about 8 years ago....but nothing concrete.
Thanks for the link.
Yep, I've heard of the same argument (and many others like it) many times. The problem is the devil is in the details, and none were presented to draw any definite conclusions.
From what all I read, it may that Mobil 1 is a 'blend' of both Group IV PAOs and refined Group III bases.
So, to say that Mobil 1 oil is not 100% pure synthetic might be alright, but to say that Mobil 1 uses Group III base (flat out) isn't...I see nothing to support that.
In either case, 'synthetic'...real or not have been proven to have better qualities in both extreme cold and heat...compare to your standard dino oil.
Although, I have notice that some 'synthetics' (lesser known brands) have lower VI than their regular oil counter parts...in the same weight class. Isn't that counterintuitive???
Yep, I've heard of the same argument (and many others like it) many times. The problem is the devil is in the details, and none were presented to draw any definite conclusions.
From what all I read, it may that Mobil 1 is a 'blend' of both Group IV PAOs and refined Group III bases.
So, to say that Mobil 1 oil is not 100% pure synthetic might be alright, but to say that Mobil 1 uses Group III base (flat out) isn't...I see nothing to support that.
In either case, 'synthetic'...real or not have been proven to have better qualities in both extreme cold and heat...compare to your standard dino oil.
Although, I have notice that some 'synthetics' (lesser known brands) have lower VI than their regular oil counter parts...in the same weight class. Isn't that counterintuitive???
I guess it depends on which Mobil 1 you buy....
http://www.searchforparts.com/important_articles/castrol_mobil_pao.php
http://www.searchforparts.com/important_articles/castrol_mobil_pao.php
webby
New member
If you read the article at that link through to the end, it turns out that it is basically a promo piece for Amsoil, so I don't trust anything they say.
MikeInNH,
What do you think about this...scroll down to 'Synthetics'...
Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible
What do you think about this...scroll down to 'Synthetics'...
Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible
RickC
New member
Mike, check out this thread regarding a filter destroying an engine: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/66618-blew-my-03-v6-engine-then-i-found.html
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