This is Why you Don't Buy Synthetic Winch Rope!!

[dreyday]

What's stopping you?

Didn't stop me from buying one, but it definitely paused my purchase for a few days to make sure I wanted synthetic instead cable.

Still think the safety benefits of the synthetic are worth it. I've seen some of these steel cables snap and fly before. It's quite terrifying.

 

[Tejas]

I've had and used both, they both have their pros and cons. My Power Wagon currently has steel cable and it'll stay that way as there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[mrblah]

buahaha...OP buys a used winch, and then didn't realize that it came with a USED winch rope, and then bashes the manufacture when it fails......


I fail to see the logic in his thinking

 

[rmbertoldi]

People seem to forget about this lovely little concept that we call cycles to failure. I'm an Arborist and literally live on a rope every day, every day my rope fibers are used/stretched they get 1 cycle closer to failing under a normal load. This is why safe working limits are usually a fraction of the minimum breaking strength. This means that 18,000lb rope is good for ONE 18,000lb pull before it cant be trusted at that weight anymore. It's pretty simple and makes a ton of sense... when ropes are used they lose strength. No rope will last forever in any circumstance.

Now, I'm not sure how long Winch lines usually last, but we use the same type of hollowbraid or doublebraid ropes in rigging operations..... they snap all the time because of the history of use combined with a big ass load being applied..... not surprising at all this happened to a Winch line.

Oh and "checking" your synthetic line (or any rope) means feeling every inch of the rope for irregularities and issues.... BEFORE EVERY USE.

Thought this as well after working for an arborist, reading OPs comment about pulling 50+ recoveries on this same USED line before it broke haha..what did he expect? 75, 100, 1000 recoveries on a used synthetic line that's constantly exposed to UV and run through dozens of stretching-cycles? #amateurhour In climbing we replace our ropes every year or two sometimes..and they're just holding PEOPLE!

 

[WD_T4R]

I think it’s important to inspect every recovery equipement after and before EACH use.

It takes max. 10 mins and you’ll be confident in your equipement every time

 

[rmbertoldi]

I think it’s important to inspect every recovery equipement after and before EACH use.

It takes max. 10 mins and you’ll be confident in your equipement every time

Very important indeed, but also just as important to remember (I think) that synthetic line can go from competent and new, to weak and fragile with almost no physical changes because the changes are at the microscopic level well beyond what we can see or test with our hands. I use the fishing line example alot..I think we've all gone to use one of our rods in the Spring..only to tie on the first hook and have the mono-filament snap off cleanly in your hand because it was a year or two old and sat in the sun and salt/fresh water for any number of fishing days. Synthetic lines are nothing more than mono-filament braids, and they do break down from UV and shock-cycles very quickly which is why you always strip off the first 100ft or so in the Spring before you cast if you're smart...but, that's assuming everyone is smart...and doesn't buy a used synthetic winch line, use it 50 times, and expect it to last forever haha

 

[nevada]

Thought this as well after working for an arborist, reading OPs comment about pulling 50+ recoveries on this same USED line before it broke haha..what did he expect? 75, 100, 1000 recoveries on a used synthetic line that's constantly exposed to UV and run through dozens of stretching-cycles? #amateurhour In climbing we replace our ropes every year or two sometimes..and they're just holding PEOPLE!

my rope was $600. I absolutely expect more than 50 recoveries from it.


ive seen mentioned a few times that this was used rope. where are you guys getting that info? he even said it was new rope....

obviously everything is considered used even after the first use, but its not like this was old worn out abused rope...

 

[rmbertoldi]

my rope was $600. I absolutely expect more than 50 recoveries from it.


ive seen mentioned a few times that this was used rope. where are you guys getting that info? he even said it was new rope....

obviously everything is considered used even after the first use, but its not like this was old worn out abused rope...

Yeah again, I get that you EXPECT that, but there are so many factors in how fast synthetic breaks down, weather, sun, chemicals, storage, etc..that "number of recoveries expected" isn't even a realistic consideration just as the ratio or price-to-number of recoveries expected. The average rock climbers rope is also $200-$600, and as I mentioned..they're replaced yearly or biyearly for the same reasons, sure in that case it's your life on the line that depends on the rope strength so naturally we error on the side of caution instead of arrogance..but hey to each their own. In my experience, if you want 50 recoveries they better all be straight pulls within 2-3 years time max, with at least one "trim" to remove "12ish inches of the kinked/exposed/recovery-end.
But again, just my two cents, anyone that wants to factor price and blind numeric expectation into physics is beyond me haha

 

[Crusifix]

I used synth with the winch I had on my JKU. It never let me or anyone else down. Having said that, if I knew I wasn't going to be wheeling for more than a few days, I would make a habit of removing the rope and stor it in a large dry bag that I kept in the back. Seemed to keep it fresh.

 

[rmbertoldi]

I used synth with the winch I had on my JKU. It never let me or anyone else down. Having said that, if I knew I wasn't going to be wheeling for more than a few days, I would make a habit of removing the rope and stor it in a large dry bag that I kept in the back. Seemed to keep it fresh.

I was going to recommend this, because this is how we store all our climbing ropes..looped no kinks in a dry bag, but I think most 4Runner owners would be irate if they actually had to remove their winch rope while not in use..I mean how is everyone at the mall gonna know you have a winch without a shackle and some rope hanging out the front? haha

 

[nevada]

Yeah again, I get that you EXPECT that, but there are so many factors in how fast synthetic breaks down, weather, sun, chemicals, storage, etc..that "number of recoveries expected" isn't even a realistic consideration just as the ratio or price-to-number of recoveries expected. The average rock climbers rope is also $200-$600, and as I mentioned..they're replaced yearly or biyearly for the same reasons, sure in that case it's your life on the line that depends on the rope strength so naturally we error on the side of caution instead of arrogance..but hey to each their own. In my experience, if you want 50 recoveries they better all be straight pulls within 2-3 years time max, with at least one "trim" to remove "12ish inches of the kinked/exposed/recovery-end.
But again, just my two cents, anyone that wants to factor price and blind numeric expectation into physics is beyond me haha

i don't get how people can think 50 recoveries is a lot.
we could do a dozen in a single wheeling trip. 50 is nothing.

 

[rmbertoldi]

i don't get how people can think 50 recoveries is a lot.
we could do a dozen in a single wheeling trip. 50 is nothing.

Honestly I think it's moreso that the "50" number, as you more or less just proved, is very subjective. If you're wheeling every wknd 50 probably isn't THAT much, as you could cover 50 in a little over a month, while "normal" winch owners that don't wheel every wknd, or only pull trees and the occasion friend out might see 50 in a year or longer. Neither case is more/less beneficial to your rope. 50 pulls in a month is a very high rate of use, and would almost require replacement MORE often...just like if you were to say catch 50-12ft tiger sharks on a mono-line..that amount of "cycles" on a line in a short period of time is just as destructive as it would be over a long period of time, time has no bearing until you factor in how your line is stored. If you recovered 50 people with straight pulls and no hawse contact, and every time you were done you removed, inspected, and stored your rope in a dry bag...I'd say 50 is nothing. But if you recovered 50 people, and all were hard angle pulls that contacted your hawse, and between each pull you let your rope wind in mud, dirt, sand, and grit that sat in your spool with a large amount of pressure and moisture until the next time you pulled it out and just reused it..then I'd say that 50 recoveries is going to destroy your rope. So again, the point, is that "expecting 50" just cause, or "expecting 50 because it's a $600 rope" has no factor on actual rope life AT ALL..it's subjective. But the way you use, store, and clean your rope most definitely does.

 

[Crusifix]

Exactly. There is a ratio that envolves age and useage. As well at type of use.

 

[TRD PANTHER]

Exactly. There is a ratio that envolves age and useage. As well at type of use.

Sounds like a human disclaimer.

 

[Crusifix]

Sounds like a human disclaimer.

It is the key phrase that fits any situation.

 

[Jetboy]

Synthetic rope is replacing wire rope for many crane operations, has already replaced it on almost every marine application, and should replace it for most winches. It should last for 5,000 winch pulls, not 50. I would suggest the service life should be at least 10 years and unlimited use. It does not get weaker with use in a way that we could ever measure. A 10,000lb winch is only reaching about half the tensile strength. It's likely not even bedding in the fibers.

Synthetic rope has a far higher cycle life than steel at higher percentage of breaking strength. Testing shows 100,000 cycles at 80% of max load is a typical lifespan. As a comparison steel wire will typically fail around 10,000 cycles at 50%. If we had enough time - I'd bet you could run more like 1,000,000 winch pulls before you'd actually wear out the rope. It's used in a lot of commercial cranes now and they run it through a lot of cycles for multiple years outside.

What it doesn't do well is handle high heat - like running on a winch made for wire rope with the brake inside the drum. That's the easiest way to kill synthetic rope - get it too hot. The other is UV degrading. Keeping it covered is a good idea.

 

[nevada]

Synthetic rope is replacing wire rope for many crane operations, has already replaced it on almost every marine application, and should replace it for most winches. It should last for 5,000 winch pulls, not 50. I would suggest the service life should be at least 10 years and unlimited use. It does not get weaker with use in a way that we could ever measure. A 10,000lb winch is only reaching about half the tensile strength. It's likely not even bedding in the fibers.

Synthetic rope has a far higher cycle life than steel at higher percentage of breaking strength. Testing shows 100,000 cycles at 80% of max load is a typical lifespan. As a comparison steel wire will typically fail around 10,000 cycles at 50%. If we had enough time - I'd bet you could run more like 1,000,000 winch pulls before you'd actually wear out the rope. It's used in a lot of commercial cranes now and they run it through a lot of cycles for multiple years outside.

What it doesn't do well is handle high heat - like running on a winch made for wire rope with the brake inside the drum. That's the easiest way to kill synthetic rope - get it too hot. The other is UV degrading. Keeping it covered is a good idea.

as long as you aren't powering out, the internal brake shouldn't be making any heat. not too mention, that is very bad for the brake itself.

 

[having fun]

Hell, I've been running my original line I installed from day 1. 6yrs now. Many hard angle pulls. Even had to do a 180 recovery on myself in 8' deep snow,2 separate 90s pulls, being solo at the time. Dragged threw snow, water, ect.
You can see linting up on outer parts of the rope, let alone the color fade in it. Never used a snatch block on it either on any pulls.

I've contemplated on replacing, but it's not broke, why fix it.

Granted, when i know I'm going to wheel hard, i bring my cable that came with the winch , just in case.

 

[Crainbow]

never seen this problem before i think you just got a lemon rope.

Agreed, or in the short time you owned it the rope got exposed to some harsh chemical

 

[acc1987]

Yup. I work in the wind industry. Climbing equipment gets inspected before and after every climb down to the stitching on each intersection of the harness. Real threatening implications if your safety equipment fails when it needs to keep you safe! Unfortunately, probably pretty difficult to inspect your rope properly as well when it's covered in mud from the recovery.

Honestly I think it's moreso that the "50" number, as you more or less just proved, is very subjective. If you're wheeling every wknd 50 probably isn't THAT much, as you could cover 50 in a little over a month, while "normal" winch owners that don't wheel every wknd, or only pull trees and the occasion friend out might see 50 in a year or longer. Neither case is more/less beneficial to your rope. 50 pulls in a month is a very high rate of use, and would almost require replacement MORE often...just like if you were to say catch 50-12ft tiger sharks on a mono-line..that amount of "cycles" on a line in a short period of time is just as destructive as it would be over a long period of time, time has no bearing until you factor in how your line is stored. If you recovered 50 people with straight pulls and no hawse contact, and every time you were done you removed, inspected, and stored your rope in a dry bag...I'd say 50 is nothing. But if you recovered 50 people, and all were hard angle pulls that contacted your hawse, and between each pull you let your rope wind in mud, dirt, sand, and grit that sat in your spool with a large amount of pressure and moisture until the next time you pulled it out and just reused it..then I'd say that 50 recoveries is going to destroy your rope. So again, the point, is that "expecting 50" just cause, or "expecting 50 because it's a $600 rope" has no factor on actual rope life AT ALL..it's subjective. But the way you use, store, and clean your rope most definitely does.