Bevo
New member
We did get two uses of "peddle" instead of "pedal", so we have that going for us.
This time the brakes didn't work!
- Thread starter evtmille
- Start date
We did get two uses of "peddle" instead of "pedal", so we have that going for us.
T4RDriver
New member
Review your state Lemon Laws since this could a considered a safety issue. Within the last month, I have firsthand knowledge of a defective 2015 Avalon with <1000 miles on it that Toyota replaced. This particular vehicle had electrical gremlins and randomly would not start. The dealer was unable to resolve and ultimately the owner was stranded three times. Under the state law in effect, the problems were considered 'consumer safety' issues. Toyota took the high road and quickly issued a replacement Avalon but had they not, the Lemon Law route would have been an option. As it stands you have a $41k truck that you can't trust so I would document intently.
What a total bum-out ... sorry OP!
ABS did not kick in, tires locked up
So far the dealer hasn't found anything. After the car died and she restarted it there was no check engine light, no check engine light no codes.
Three months prior, the car wouldn't accelerate, push the gas and nothing happened, just would idle, check engine light came on, Trac off light came on etc. Coasted to a gas station, called Toyota waited for a tow truck, but after a while restarted it and ran fine. Drove it in instead of waiting two hours. Turned it off, dealer restarted it but check engine light was off and couldn't fine anything wrong.
Three weeks ago same thing happened but this time the car also died. Restarted it, died again. Waiting 15 min and restarted fine. Drove to dealer, left it running and were able to pull codes and replaced the throttle body.
No other service has been done besides the above and 5000 check.
I am not expert, I used to change my own oil but that's about it. Modern cars are too complicated nor do I have the free time. But to me it seems like an electrical issue, that maybe the ABS malfunctioned or the car was stalling and she lost power brakes but she told me the pedal went to the floor and nothing happened. Either way I think it's getting traded in. Toyota makes good trucks but this one has something wrong with it.
So far the dealer hasn't found anything. After the car died and she restarted it there was no check engine light, no check engine light no codes.
Three months prior, the car wouldn't accelerate, push the gas and nothing happened, just would idle, check engine light came on, Trac off light came on etc. Coasted to a gas station, called Toyota waited for a tow truck, but after a while restarted it and ran fine. Drove it in instead of waiting two hours. Turned it off, dealer restarted it but check engine light was off and couldn't fine anything wrong.
Three weeks ago same thing happened but this time the car also died. Restarted it, died again. Waiting 15 min and restarted fine. Drove to dealer, left it running and were able to pull codes and replaced the throttle body.
No other service has been done besides the above and 5000 check.
I am not expert, I used to change my own oil but that's about it. Modern cars are too complicated nor do I have the free time. But to me it seems like an electrical issue, that maybe the ABS malfunctioned or the car was stalling and she lost power brakes but she told me the pedal went to the floor and nothing happened. Either way I think it's getting traded in. Toyota makes good trucks but this one has something wrong with it.
jrandom
New member
You don't happen to have pack-rats around you?
One did a hell of a job to my bother-in-laws pre-stupid-redesign Nissan Pathfinder, to the tune of thousands of dollars and a brand new complete engine wire harness. Same fat-bastard started in on my 3rd gen, luckily only stole hood insulation and chewed threw two visible wires before it croaked from an overdoes of pain meds and rat poison.
Just staying some rodents like to chew wires, I wouldn't rule it out. One chewed wire... body grounded *shrug* magical things can happen.
One did a hell of a job to my bother-in-laws pre-stupid-redesign Nissan Pathfinder, to the tune of thousands of dollars and a brand new complete engine wire harness. Same fat-bastard started in on my 3rd gen, luckily only stole hood insulation and chewed threw two visible wires before it croaked from an overdoes of pain meds and rat poison.
Just staying some rodents like to chew wires, I wouldn't rule it out. One chewed wire... body grounded *shrug* magical things can happen.
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Honu*
New member
not sure how the 4runner is have not used the ABS yet ? but many do when you hit the brake and the ABS kicks in the pedal goes to the floor ? and it feels freaky as the pedal goes to the floor like its not working ? but it is
almost sounds like this happened ? she saw a car and hit the brakes and the pedal went to the floor and the quick reaction was OH NO and do it again
no error on the car or wifes fault its just never having felt that before she thought they were not working ?
but for sure things can fail in strange ways but often in this kinda thing the brain remembers things different than what happened etc...
just glad she is OK and you are taking action
almost sounds like this happened ? she saw a car and hit the brakes and the pedal went to the floor and the quick reaction was OH NO and do it again
no error on the car or wifes fault its just never having felt that before she thought they were not working ?
but for sure things can fail in strange ways but often in this kinda thing the brain remembers things different than what happened etc...
just glad she is OK and you are taking action
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The power brakes are electronic, so the car stalling won't cause them to lose power. Even if there is an electrical failure, there is a boost reservoir that will assist for several stops. And if there is an electrical failure, it is likely that it would beep or store a code in the brake ECU. A dealer should be able to check for that.
If the boost reservoir is used up the brakes become soft for some reason. It doesn't make sense because in most cars the pedal becomes very firm if the boost reserve is used up. Try it out by pumping the brakes for a while with the ignition off.
I can think of one way that what you described could happen. Maybe there was a failure in the master cylinder somehow that lets the pedal go to the floor or be softer than normal. When you try to stop a second time, pushing the pedal faster could activate Brake Assist that automatically applies full braking power and activates ABS (it's annoying, mostly).
It doesn't make sense for the wheels to lock up. ABS should activate. If they did lock up there would be rubber skid marks on the road, and you would lose some steering control (not that you'd notice if stopping in a straight line). You would probably hear screeching tires, but I've herd it sometimes on smooth concrete roads in cars with working ABS and EBD (Electronic Brakeforce Distribution - uses ABS to balance braking between the front and rear depending on load and conditions). If they didn't lock up the truck would still come to a stop very quickly with ABS.
On one car I've driven, ABS didn't work under about 4mph, but I don't think that's the problem here.
I think in rare cases the automatic transmission can stall the engine. A sudden stop might do it. If it starts up fine after, I wouldn't worry about it unless it happens on a regular basis.
Antman
Elite Member
If the master cylinder had a failure nothing would work including EBD.
lightspeed
Member
Hmm. A quick search shows a very small smattering of similar experiences but like alien abductions and chupacabra sightings, only vague and unsubstantiated anecdotes.
My brakes failed but only figuratively as in "I can't stop spending $ on mods".... :eyebrows:
My brakes failed but only figuratively as in "I can't stop spending $ on mods".... :eyebrows:
Isn't there a chance Brake Assist could still work? It uses the stored hydraulic pressure to help apply full braking power if it thinks you are trying to panic stop. I would guess it's similar to the way DAC, Crawl, HAC, and ATRAC apply the brakes without having to touch the pedal at all. I think Brake Assist is activated by pressing the brakes faster or harder than normal. Even if the master cylinder is not working correctly, the sensor that activates Brake Assist might still work.
If you haven't experienced Brake Assist, you can try it out. Hit the brakes hard/fast, but not as hard as you can, and it should activate. While it's going, if you let off the brakes a bit it will stop and you will have normal braking. Then press the brakes a bit more and it will suddenly reactivate and stop you much faster than expected for the change in brake pedal force.
EBD is basically the same thing as ABS. Rather than have a proportioning valve that controls brake power to the front and rear, it applies a fixed power split and interrupts it if either the front or rear gets too much power and starts to lock up. That's what ABS does anyway. I only mentioned it because I've heard tires screeching when panic stopping on concrete roads in my last car (haven't tried it in a 4runner yet), and since it had EBD I know that it wasn't just the rear wheels locking up, which could be the case in a car without EBD. I'm speculating that maybe if the OP heard tires screeching he might think the wheels locked up, and that's not necessarily the case.
wfo9
New member
The fact that it stalled.... This seems very electronics related. No way a dealer could resolve this. I would contact Toyota directly and file a report here https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
Antman
Elite Member
I guess you have a point there- we are both speculating anyway.
I just don't buy the "no brakes, then full brakes with lockup" story at all.
Jetboy
New member
Isn't it possible either a clogged inlet port or non-functioning master cylinder reservoir cap vent could cause this. In either event you could create a vacuum that would pull the brake slave pistons back far enough to absorb all the volume of the first press of the brake pedal. It's a long shot - but plausible.
No reason to lie if she didn't actually hit someone.
No reason to lie if she didn't actually hit someone.
philsey
New member
OK,
First, it's brake, B... R... A... K...E...
Second, it's pedal, P... E... D... A... L...
Sheesh. How the hell adults with good enough jobs to own new 4Rs can spell the way I see on here never fails to amaze.
Perception is reality guys..... if that's what the wifey says happened, that's what OP is goin' with. All this conjecture means zip-shit to her, and he'll certainly not be arguing all these technicalities with her. Nosir.
First, it's brake, B... R... A... K...E...
Second, it's pedal, P... E... D... A... L...
Sheesh. How the hell adults with good enough jobs to own new 4Rs can spell the way I see on here never fails to amaze.
Perception is reality guys..... if that's what the wifey says happened, that's what OP is goin' with. All this conjecture means zip-shit to her, and he'll certainly not be arguing all these technicalities with her. Nosir.
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High_Country
New member
I'll throw my $0.02 in here with the rest of the speculation and conjecture:
I'd put my money on the "brake assist" or "panic braking" function surprising your wife. The first time I experienced the brake assist (by jumping on the brakes quickly - but not for a panic stop), I remember thinking "WHAT IN THE F@#$ JUST HAPPENED?!?!" Then I checked my pants and was glad my seats were water repellent and stain resistant. Seriously though, it was an odd, 'out of control' feeling but the 4Runner DID stop after I let up the brake pedal and tried it again.
it was after that experience, I read on here about the brake assist function and it all made sense. I have sense purposely tried to duplicate it and sho-nuff, it was the same sensation.
If you have the 4runner in your possession, I would go to a safe place and try it out to a) see if you can replicate the problem as your wife described it, and/or b) see if you can activate the brake assist.
If the brakes have been fine for 5000+ miles, I find it hard to believe it's an air bubble in the system or failed master cylinder.
I'd put my money on the "brake assist" or "panic braking" function surprising your wife. The first time I experienced the brake assist (by jumping on the brakes quickly - but not for a panic stop), I remember thinking "WHAT IN THE F@#$ JUST HAPPENED?!?!" Then I checked my pants and was glad my seats were water repellent and stain resistant. Seriously though, it was an odd, 'out of control' feeling but the 4Runner DID stop after I let up the brake pedal and tried it again.
it was after that experience, I read on here about the brake assist function and it all made sense. I have sense purposely tried to duplicate it and sho-nuff, it was the same sensation.
If you have the 4runner in your possession, I would go to a safe place and try it out to a) see if you can replicate the problem as your wife described it, and/or b) see if you can activate the brake assist.
If the brakes have been fine for 5000+ miles, I find it hard to believe it's an air bubble in the system or failed master cylinder.
Jhalko
New member
Jeez Phil, (Mr. Nosir) you never have autocorrect change words from original intentions? It's not always not knowing the correct spelling, sometimes you just don't care to go back and fix things. :fear:
