Throttle response on 14' 4RUNNER vs 13' FJ TT

[wfo9]

Thanks, but not really looking for an aftermarket item. Was just trying to see if this was something that could be done with Toyota software or from a pedal sensor swap.

Toyota is the worst about this type of stuff (modifying the ECU software). Why would you be willing to swap in an FJ sensor but not go with something aftermarket. I guess there is very slight potential for a safety issue... but the product seems to produce exactly what you are looking for. Here is a quote from an FJ user.

I just installed one last night on my 4x4 AT '11. They sent me the Tundra version since the one for the '11 are not listed. Wow what a difference!!! The pedal feels much lighter and smoother. Acceleration is like night and day. Although this product doesn't add any power it definately removes the lag and the rig acclerate once you are on the gas. This was on the GREEN setting. When I set it to RED, the car acceleration felt like my IS350. I left the setting button hanging for now since I didn't have time to properly mount it. I would definately recommend anyone to try it out. They have a 30 days money back guarantee so if you don't like the product you can always return it back.

I'm sure all this thing does is ramp the signal faster. When you input 10% it probably boost that to 20... depending on the setting... Your just getting a tunable pedal. There is no way it is making up for a delay... just doing a multiplier. So you could do it manually with your foot if desired.

Toyta should open the kimono a bit for aftermarket tuners, but they are a-holes about it.

 

[Saker]

Toyota is the worst about this type of stuff (modifying the ECU software). Why would you be willing to swap in an FJ sensor but not go with something aftermarket. I guess there is very slight potential for a safety issue... but the product seems to produce exactly what you are looking for. Here is a quote from an FJ user.

I'm sure all this thing does is ramp the signal faster. When you input 10% it probably boost that to 20... depending on the setting... You just getting a tuneable pedal.

Would rather have an OEM part rather than an aftermarket item that I would have no recourse on if it were to cause some type of issue.
At my age, I have seen way too many aftermarket majic wonder items that were automotive snake oil and I guess I have trust issues as far as that goes.

The item may be fine, but I am not to take that chance.
Thanks for your input!

 

[wfo9]

Would rather have an OEM part rather than an aftermarket item that I would have no recourse on if it were to cause some type of issue.
At my age, I have seen way too many aftermarket majic wonder items that were automotive snake oil and I guess I have trust issues as far as that goes.

The item may be fine, but I am not to take that chance.
Thanks for your input!

You could try it and return it if it did not meet your expectations. I get it though, if it is not much of a concern why bother.... Just push the pedal harder and faster with your foot. That is a really an easy solution.

 

[Saker]

.... Just push the pedal harder and faster with your foot. That is a really an easy solution.

That's what the current solution is now....just thought there was a software / hardware solution.
So, for now, back to the easy solution!

 

[wfo9]

That's what the current solution is now....just thought there was a software / hardware solution.
So, for now, back to the easy solution!

Not trying to mess with you, but there is a hardware solution, just not a Toyota hardware solution and I doubt there ever will be.

There may actually be a software solution out there someday.

It's funny that most manufacturers are going in the exact opposite direction as Toyota. Ford... have realized they win customers this way. Ford Racing really wants you to mod EcoBoost engines

 

[Saker]

 

[Tronner]

After fiddling around with pushing the throttle a lot harder than I should have to and extensive experience with ECU / throttle mapping on two modified Subaru STi's and a 335xi BMW I can tell you with 100% certainty that the biggest issue with the throttle response has nothing to do with weight or anything else. It is the way the ECU map is scaled for throttle input. If swapping in an FJ sensor would fix it that would be great, and I'm going to look into that solution. Otherwise your other options are to push the pedal farther or try an aftermarket software solution, which you don't want to do.

 

[1engineer]

After fiddling around with pushing the throttle a lot harder than I should have to and extensive experience with ECU / throttle mapping on two modified Subaru STi's and a 335xi BMW I can tell you with 100% certainty that the biggest issue with the throttle response has nothing to do with weight or anything else. It is the way the ECU map is scaled for throttle input. If swapping in an FJ sensor would fix it that would be great, and I'm going to look into that solution. Otherwise your other options are to push the pedal farther or try an aftermarket software solution, which you don't want to do.

Why wouldn't you want to push the pedal harder?

 

[wfo9]

Why wouldn't you want to push the pedal harder?

Just because you should not have to. This stuff should be user configurable... The car should drive the way I want it to, not the way Toyota thinks it should.
The industry as a whole caught on to this a long time ago. Several newer cars offer configurable modes that include throttle response right there on the drivers information center. And the really ironic thing is just how easy this would be for Toyota to fix. The ECU surely has a calibration map between input voltage/frequency and demanded throttle.

The throttle mapping itself is not a huge deal overall, but it sure would be a nice change.

There is a rumor that it learns your preferences if you mash the throttle all the time, but I'm pretty convinced that is BS. People get muscle memory...

 

[Canon_Bob]

I'm wondering why it's so difficult to accept the designed performance of a vehicle as it is?

Every vehicle has it's own "feel" to it, and to me....it's up to the driver to reprogram his/her self to adapt to that specific vehicles characteristics.

The FJ and the 4Runner may share common drivetrains, but they are significantly different vehicles (and yes, I've owned both). As such, I'm sure they were engineered and tuned differently. Jumping from one to the other and expecting the same feel is unrealistic in my opinion. I definitely noticed the difference when I switched from an FJ to my 4Runner....but I expected that and accepted it as designed. Car manufacturers have used the same foundational drivetrain (engine, tranny, etc.) across many different models throughout history, and there can be VERY significant performance deltas from one model to the other to the other. Comparing FJ performance to 4Runner performance is kind of an "apples and oranges" thing in my mind.

We have three vehicles in our family currently: My 2014 T4R Trail, my wife's 2014 2wd Rav4, and a BMW 545i that we share for highway and "around town" trips. Every one of these vehicles is radically different in almost every performance aspect, yet each fills a specific "niche" in our household. Yet neither of us has an issue switching from one vehicle to the other. In my opinion, the solution is to reprogram the driver....not the car. Can you imagine if I expected my 4Runner to accelerate like the BMW on the highway? Sure, I could mod the crap out of it to get the acceleration, but there'd definitely be a price to pay in other areas for that. Easier to just adapt to each vehicle and enjoy them in my opinion. YMMV.

 

[Whiplash Willy]

I'm wondering why it's so difficult to accept the designed performance of a vehicle as it is?

Every vehicle has it's own "feel" to it, and to me....it's up to the driver to reprogram his/her self to adapt to that specific vehicles characteristics.

Because as great is the 5th Gen 4runner is, it isn't living up to it's potential. Anyone who has ever floored it, knows it has plenty of power. It is just annoying it was programmed to be un-responsive, and shift for economy, and not drive-ability.

Nobody is looking for the acceleration of a sports car, its just annoying driving it around in many situations, with such lethargic response. I think if the throttle response and shift points were tweaked a bit, or just similar to how they were before Toyota tweaked them for "Efficiency" (think 4th gen) nobody would be complaining on how it felt slow.

Personally, the 5th Gen's lethargic feel and shift points are the only thing I don't Love about my 4Runner, and if I could swap out a pedal or sensor, or change a setting in the ECU to make my daily driving experience better, I would do it in a heartbeat.

If only Toyota still had their ECT PWR button, or our "Sport Mode" was a true sport mode that did something other then just letting you select your top gear...

On a sidenote, I had looked into the Sprint Booster in the past for my 4Runner, and it won't fit without modification, as there is a heater hose line in the way.

 

[1engineer]

Just because you should not have to. This stuff should be user configurable... The car should drive the way I want it to, not the way Toyota thinks it should.
The industry as a whole caught on to this a long time ago. Several newer cars offer configurable modes that include throttle response right there on the drivers information center. And the really ironic thing is just how easy this would be for Toyota to fix. The ECU surely has a calibration map between input voltage/frequency and demanded throttle.

The throttle mapping itself is not a huge deal overall, but it sure would be a nice change.

There is a rumor that it learns your preferences if you mash the throttle all the time, but I'm pretty convinced that is BS. People get muscle memory...

'
Alright, I have to ask the obvious question here:

Why did you even buy a 4Runner in the first place? I have read most of your posts and you are one disappointed and unhappy man regarding Toyota vehicles.

-Toyota chooses to build their vehicles they way they do because of market research.
-Toyota chooses to offer features targeted at specific market demographics.
-Toyota offers different models based on market demand.
-Toyota's business model is one based on reliability and durability, not gimmickry and features that could compromise their foundation of reliability and durability.
-Toyota's business model is designed to make their profit up front on new car sales so big rebates and mark downs are never going to happen.
-Other vehicle OEM's, especially the big three, are designed to make a minimal amount up front and make the majority of profit on parts, performance mods and service. This is why Toyota keeps their ECU's, for example, controlled and inaccessible.


Toyota dealers ARE NOT Toyota corporate. They are independent contractors that sell and service Toyota vehicles. Because of this independence you will find, as you do in any organization, good dealerships and bad dealerships.

Now, you could exercise your right to choose any vehicle you want. You can pick one that has a dealership you like, or features you like or pick based on ability to mod it. Why in the world would you buy a 4Runner and continue to bash it all the time? I of course have the same rights as you and I chose to buy a Toyota because of their reliability and durability, knowing that with those two main features there would be something that I would have to give up.
The company I work for produces some of the most rugged, reliable and durable hydraulic components in the world. We are also one of the most expensive. I have been involved in several years of research in our specific market and we, along with companies like Toyota, have determined that you can never give a customer everything they want. You have to determine your business model, pick what you can offer and sell what you can. Hopefully you make a profit.

I am NOT a Toyota fanboy. I currently own a Toyota, a few Hondas and a Subaru.
With that said I would really like to get a Dodge Challenger and will within the next year or so. I know what I will have to give up to own one of these and I can guarantee you I won't be going to their forum bashing the Challenger because I knowingly chose their product and their shortcomings.

 

[itsdchz]

I agree with the fact that the FJ was more responsive than than the 4Runner. I believe it to be mapping in the ECU rather than weight.

I do not mind this, with the exception of when pulling onto the highway. The much smoother shifting and feel of acceleration, without the hard shifts, wins me over vs. the FJ, on most of the driving that I do.

Remember on your FJ, when you would mash the gas pedal to pass and it would downshift and send REV's through the roof, sounding like your rods were going to blow through the block? I do not miss that, and think the 4Runner's mapping has eliminated that issue. Now, I hope this doesn't change the way it feels when crawling through obstacles or hitting the gas to get over an obstacle while going uphill. I haven't read any complaints on the handling off-road, so that mustn't be the case!

Either way, I am very happy, overall, with the ride and feel of the 4Runner!

 

[philsey]

.... The car should drive the way I want it to, not the way Toyota thinks it should.
...

Your ire is misdirected sir. Your beef is with the gubmint and CAFE standards, not Toyota.

Sure they could do these things; but it's just like the diesel, the S/C, the MT, yada yada yada yada -- the volume and price point at which the 4R sells, just do not make a business case. Econ 101.

And if you think Toyota is gonna let you play with ECU programming, and open the gates to hell (aka litigation, the likes of which nearly eradicated Audi), well they're too smart fo dat.

Learn to drive it - it is what it is.

 

[flatspin]

I came from a 2003 4Runner and noticed the slower response on my 2014 when I bought it. It has been improving however as it gets used to my foot (I guess). The response is almost definitely due to the throttle curve I'm sure. It has plenty of power though when you stomp on it however.

But I LIKE having a softer pedal though as it makes tricky driving easier. Last thing I want when trying to hook up to a trailer, 4 wheel in slippery snow/mud/rocks, pull a boat out of the water, is a touchy accelerator.

It IS a truck/utility vehicle after all.

 

[Bilbo]

Your ire is misdirected sir. Your beef is with the gubmint and CAFE standards, not Toyota.

Sure they could do these things; but it's just like the diesel, the S/C, the MT, yada yada yada yada -- the volume and price point at which the 4R sells, just do not make a business case. Econ 101.

And if you think Toyota is gonna let you play with ECU programming, and open the gates to hell (aka litigation, the likes of which nearly eradicated Audi), well they're too smart fo dat.

Learn to drive it - it is what it is.

Guess this is off topic, but if CAFE means that less of my money and fewer of my friends are shipped off to the mideast, I'm all for it.

About reprogramming ECUs opening the "gates of hell" -- exactly right!

 

[Engineer]

If the worst thing to complain about is having to push the throttle more then what one is accustomed to we have it good boys.

 

[philsey]

...
There is a rumor that it learns your preferences if you mash the throttle all the time, but I'm pretty convinced that is BS....

Yeah, me too. But I'd like to hear from someone who actually knows.
[MENTION=48413]Quentin[/MENTION] ? [MENTION=97423]Donkey[/MENTION] ?

 

[wfo9]

'
Alright, I have to ask the obvious question here:

Why did you even buy a 4Runner in the first place? I have read most of your posts and you are one disappointed and unhappy man regarding Toyota vehicles.

Why in the world would you buy a 4Runner and continue to bash it all the time?

Bashing, LOL! You crack me up.

 

[Quentin]

Yeah, me too. But I'd like to hear from someone who actually knows.
[MENTION=48413]Quentin[/MENTION] ? [MENTION=97423]Donkey[/MENTION] ?

It does not. The AT will "learn" your driving which can slightly alter the abruptness and timing of shifts, but the throttle is purely position based.