Time for new A/T tires. Brand? Load rating?

[Mushroom_Cap]

First of all, I apologize for the redundancy as I realize there are other recent threads discussing the same topic. But hey, who doesn't like talking tires???!!!

By spring time I'll be in the market for a new set of A/T tires. Currently running the Cooper Discoverer AT3 in 265/65/17, P rated. Overall the tires have been pretty good, but not amazing. I would recommend them but plan to buy something else next time around. The tires are nice on the highway for an A/T, pretty decent off-road, and have shown good tread life. However on our vehicle they suck in the rain and are not that hot in snow/slush/ice.

The only 2 tires I am considering as replacements are the BFG KO2 and Good year Duratrac. Yes I know there are plenty of other solid A/T tires out there, I just like BFG and Goodyear and that is that.

I want to go up one tire size to 265/70/17. I was at Discount Tire today doing some pricing out.

The Duratrac comes in P, C, and E. The BFG only comes in C or E.

I only inquired on the weight of the P and C ratings (have no need to go E). The Duratrac P = 44lbs and the C is 45lbs. The BFG C is 46lbs.

I was under the impression that more plys = more puncture resistance but the staff member told me that this is FALSE and more pls only = more load carrying capacity.

I have no complaints with how the P rated Cooper's have performed. So I think I would like to stay with P. Or is it really a "big deal" to go to C rated tires?

We tow a 5x8 trailer with an 800 or so pound quad, or a 2000ish pound boat. Neither have a lot of tongue weight.

If I want to go P then the only choice is the Duratrac. If I am willing to go C then I have the choice of the BFG.

Also, we don't run winter tires so the one that is "better" in the winter is an important factor. Both tires have the snowflake rating.

For what it's worth the guy at Discount today said that both tires will be pretty comparable as far as winter driving, off-roading, tread life, and rain performance. He said less road noise with the BFG. Also said the Duratrac might be a bit better in mud.

 

[S p a r k y]

I may not be the best person to answer, but i'll give my best.

I have Dura's and love them, they do get louder, but not bad. Mine are D rated, so doesn't help a lot. My brother has P rated 265/70's on his Tacoma, He loves them as well. In reality for myself and sounds like you "P" is really all we need. If Dura's came in a 33/34ish P rated, I would never get anything else!
[MENTION=69809]Staceman[/MENTION] has however made me think about the KO2's the 34x10.50r17 in D rate really sounds great, being skinnier than my 285 and taller seems like a perfect tire. So I have been thinking about these, however it will be a bit before I need tires. Hopefully someone else will have some mounted so I can see.

I like Dura's, I like KO2's If either are a P/C in 285/70 or somewhere 33ish I will get those next.

 

[gshadow325]

what ever you do dont get coopers LOL, just kidding [MENTION=59048]S p a r k y[/MENTION] knows what im talking about hahaha.

i went from bfg at ko's to duratrac load e. 275/65/18 to 285/65/18

i love the bfg for the quietness and still have a agressive tread and treadwear.
i love the duratracs for the LOOK but its a little more noise.

got my bfg used for $220 and put 20k on them and now they still have another 20k of life in them

got a deal on the duratracs for $380 for the set with 8k on them. love them for the price.


i did go with general grabber at2 for my previa aka Tala-Van. love them, quiet and agressive tread, got it on sale on ebay from discount tire direct shipped for $384. compared to tire rack @ $135 each.


did you consider tread wright? i heard great things about them, i was going to get a set for the tala-van but they didnt come in my size.

 

[AKmoney]

I have Bridgestone Dueler Revo 2 AT in LT265/70/17, Load E. They're pretty much the lightest "E" rated tire I could find in that size at 46 lbs. I've got about 15K on them thus far and I'm pretty happy with them.

You may want to check in with @JB. as he's our resident tire expert. He created a very comprehensive review thread on the Revo 2s that's worth checking out:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/engin...es/89432-ongoing-review-revo-2-lt-load-e.html

I know he recently swapped them out for BFG KO2s so perhaps he can chime in with a comparison.

 

[Lolrax]

Time and again the Cooper Discoverer AT/3 seems to be the best rated tire by far.

 

[swanny]

In my opinion (currently) go with whichever those two you like the look of best.

I have Duratrac on my Silverado and they have been fantastic, got them when they were first released. They've worn super well and have never been to loud. Performance in snow and dirt roads with an empty bed or the bed full of firewood has been wonderful.

Tomorrow I am having the KO2 installed on my 4Runner. So I can't comment on their performance yet, but they obviousally have a very strong reputation.

 

[9494runner]

Cooper's all the way:deadhorse:

Buy them againnnnn

 

[Mushroom_Cap]

Thanks for the replies guys. I send JB a PM and asked him to check out the thread and offer his opinion.

So...please excuse my ignorance but I still don't quite get...

- why many people choose a higher load rating (C, D, E) when their vehicle is rated for P? I realize in some cases the tire you want may only come in a higher load rating. For example the BFG KO2s only come in C or E in 265/70/17.

But if you had the choice of P, and do not need more load carrying capacity than P, why would you want C, D, or E?

I always though the answer was "for more puncture resistance." However, the staff at Discount Tire told me yesterday that, NO, this is not the case. I didn't bother to argue as I'm not a "tire guy" and didn't have any solid science to back what I thought was true. It seems to make sense that if there are more plys in the side wall and/or tread that an object would have a harder time puncturing the tire. No?

I believe I've already said...but I've been running P rated AT's (Cooper Discoverer AT3) from new to close to worn out with no puncture issues. And they're been driven on a LOT of crappy roads. Well, we did get about 6-7 slow leaks from nails, screws and so on, so if a higher ply tire could avoid that it would be nice. Bit of a hassle having to keep an eye on the tire, keep topping it up, get it into a tire shop to get plugged, and so on.

I'm inclined to stick with P again. However if I want the KO2s in this size I need to go to a C rated tire. Reading threads on this topic on this site, it seems most ppl with C load needed to up their psi to get the proper ride, grip, etc.

Leaning towards the Duratracs in P265/70/17.

 

[JimInTN]

Toyo at II's come in a 265/70r17 with a 65k tread life warranty.

You can get them for $150 a piece shipped.

TOYO Open Country A/T II P265/70R17 113S BLK Tires Direct

 

[S p a r k y]

- why many people choose a higher load rating (C, D, E) when their vehicle is rated for P? I realize in some cases the tire you want may only come in a higher load rating. For example the BFG KO2s only come in C or E in 265/70/17.

But if you had the choice of P, and do not need more load carrying capacity than P, why would you want C, D, or E?

You answered your own question there, to have a "real" AT or mud tire, for either functionality or just looks, C,D,E is what your going to get. Dura's just recently came out in P rate. Goodyear was very smart in realizing a lot of people want an aggresive looking tire with the cushy road manners of P! Bravo Goodyear, now make that 285/70/17 Dura in P!

Btw if you put any P tire next to an LT tire, you will notice the LT is slightly more aggresive and has more rubber.

I personally don't think the cooper at3 is really an AT tire, sure it's more aggressive than a Michelin MS2, but place it up against the bigger AT tires and it doesn't stand a chance. Also you will see tons of great reviews on it, because it is a good entry level AT style and it has a great price, so all the cool kids are going to get it for their first set a cool tires!

A C,D,E is going to be tougher than a P no doubt, sidewall, tread, every aspect of it.
[MENTION=93434]gshadow325[/MENTION] is really in denial that Cooper won't let him roll with AT3's!!

Another good comparison with your tire ply dilema, P's and AT3's are like spacer lifts, they do what you want and reach the goal in a cheap way! Or you can step up and do it right with fancy coil overs and lifts with great components.

I am a half cheap half nice, just because of the Dura deal I ran into!

I'll hush now!

 

[parboy]

for what you described P is fine. It came with P from the factory and the tow weight of the 4runner was taken into consideration. When people think about puncture resistance, they usually refer to the sidewall ply. I get just as many nails in e tires that I do in P. So many people run C-E tires because when you lift and upsize your tires, you become limited in what you can get in an aggressive AT in a 32 or 33 in tire. depending on what you are going to do, If you are just towing your boat and ATV, go with a P, but I would not go above a D. I put Geolander AT-S on mine in a D because it was that or an E in the size. I am glad I did because they still feel very hard for daily driving.

 

[Mushroom_Cap]

for what you described P is fine. It came with P from the factory and the tow weight of the 4runner was taken into consideration. When people think about puncture resistance, they usually refer to the sidewall ply. I get just as many nails in e tires that I do in P. So many people run C-E tires because when you lift and upsize your tires, you become limited in what you can get in an aggressive AT in a 32 or 33 in tire. depending on what you are going to do, If you are just towing your boat and ATV, go with a P, but I would not go above a D. I put Geolander AT-S on mine in a D because it was that or an E in the size. I am glad I did because they still feel very hard for daily driving.

Cool, thanks man that clears things up.

Well, for the tires I like, the Duratrac and KO2, in the size I want, I have a choice of P in the Duratrac or C in the KO2.

If I could get the KO2 in a P, I'd probably get them as the reviews seem to conclude that they are quieter on the highway, and I like the look of them a bit more.

What PSI do you think I'd be running in a C rated KO2? And do you think they'd ride noticeably stiffer for daily driving that a P tire.

Although I would not buy the Cooper AT3 again for the kind of driving I do, I do find it to be quite a comfortable tire for daily driving.

 

[Mushroom_Cap]

You answered your own question there, to have a "real" AT or mud tire, for either functionality or just looks, C,D,E is what your going to get. Dura's just recently came out in P rate. Goodyear was very smart in realizing a lot of people want an aggresive looking tire with the cushy road manners of P! Bravo Goodyear, now make that 285/70/17 Dura in P!

Btw if you put any P tire next to an LT tire, you will notice the LT is slightly more aggresive and has more rubber.

I personally don't think the cooper at3 is really an AT tire, sure it's more aggressive than a Michelin MS2, but place it up against the bigger AT tires and it doesn't stand a chance. Also you will see tons of great reviews on it, because it is a good entry level AT style and it has a great price, so all the cool kids are going to get it for their first set a cool tires!

A C,D,E is going to be tougher than a P no doubt, sidewall, tread, every aspect of it.
[MENTION=93434]gshadow325[/MENTION] is really in denial that Cooper won't let him roll with AT3's!!

Another good comparison with your tire ply dilema, P's and AT3's are like spacer lifts, they do what you want and reach the goal in a cheap way! Or you can step up and do it right with fancy coil overs and lifts with great components.

I am a half cheap half nice, just because of the Dura deal I ran into!

I'll hush now!

Haha! Well I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks the AT3s are half-ass AT tire. Drove the 4Runner to work this morn as we had a light dump of snow last night which turned to slush by the morn. Man the AT3s sucked! Totally squirmy. Our car with Michelin Primacy MXV4 a/s tires handles better in rain and slush.

Honestly still a bit confused by "...C,D,E is going to be tougher than a P no doubt, sidewall, tread, every aspect of it." I get more side wall plys = more side wall puncture resistance. However I though the rest of the tire was basically the "same."

Perhaps I'll go to my local tire shop and ask to see a P and C in the Duratrac.

Sooooo.....if ya'll were me...would you go with the P duratrac or C KO2?

To recap on the type of driving I do: A lot of highway and city. Max tire comfort is important on bumps, ruts, etc. In the fall we drive a LOT of rough roads. Gravel, forestry, de-commissioned! Lots of muck holes, sharp rocks, and so on. Definitely pushing the vehicle, tires, everything to it's limits at times.

I'm thinking with the C, perhaps if you hit an unexpected rut really hard at speed, you'd be less likely to compromise the internal integrity of the tire? Less likely to pop a bead? We've never had either happen with the AT3 but there have been several time where we smucked something and I stopped and got out and was relieved to not see a flat tire.

 

[Mushroom_Cap]

Found this thread. None of the images will show on my work computer so I'll have to view them later at home. Appears to be a lot of good info relevant to this topic.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/engin...s/110299-lt-tires-need-more-air-pressure.html

 

[robaroni]

I have about 1k miles on my new KO2's and I love them. Great ride and very quiet.

 

[WI_4Runner]

You answered your own question there, to have a "real" AT or mud tire, for either functionality or just looks, C,D,E is what your going to get. Dura's just recently came out in P rate. Goodyear was very smart in realizing a lot of people want an aggresive looking tire with the cushy road manners of P! Bravo Goodyear, now make that 285/70/17 Dura in P!

Btw if you put any P tire next to an LT tire, you will notice the LT is slightly more aggresive and has more rubber.

I personally don't think the cooper at3 is really an AT tire, sure it's more aggressive than a Michelin MS2, but place it up against the bigger AT tires and it doesn't stand a chance. Also you will see tons of great reviews on it, because it is a good entry level AT style and it has a great price, so all the cool kids are going to get it for their first set a cool tires!

A C,D,E is going to be tougher than a P no doubt, sidewall, tread, every aspect of it.
[MENTION=93434]gshadow325[/MENTION] is really in denial that Cooper won't let him roll with AT3's!!

Another good comparison with your tire ply dilema, P's and AT3's are like spacer lifts, they do what you want and reach the goal in a cheap way! Or you can step up and do it right with fancy coil overs and lifts with great components.

I am a half cheap half nice, just because of the Dura deal I ran into!

I'll hush now!

To each their own on the definition of an A/T Tire, Cooper At3 not withstanding, but some people don't need something as aggressive as a Duratrac or a KO2. I'm probably in the minority on this forum, but I'm stock ride height, do not want something as beefy as the latter 2 tires and would have no problem sticking any of the less aggressive A/T tires on my rig. Mine is a DD so 98% of it's life is on the pavement which I have no problem admitting, so I have different priorities for my tires which doesn't align with the general consensus here. Seems most are hell bent on sticking something on their rigs for sidewall looks and often it becomes a KO2/Duratrac or bust debate.

The cool kids around my location are ALL running Duratrac/BFGKO2/Toyo MT on their SUV/Trucks. I don't think people are choosing the AT3's for looks alone. I could name 5+ other AT tires I'd rather have if it was based on appearance.

 

[AKmoney]

To each their own on the definition of an A/T Tire, Cooper At3 not withstanding, but some people don't need something as aggressive as a Duratrac or a KO2. I'm probably in the minority on this forum, but I'm stock ride height, do not want something as beefy as the latter 2 tires and would have no problem sticking any of the less aggressive A/T tires on my rig. Mine is a DD so 98% of it's life is on the pavement which I have no problem admitting, so I have different priorities for my tires which doesn't align with the general consensus here. Seems most are hell bent on sticking something on their rigs for sidewall looks and often it becomes a KO2/Duratrac or bust debate.

This is why I went with the Bridgestone Revo 2. They're far from the most aggressive looking A/T tire out there but like you, 98%+ of my miles are on pavement so having nice road manners is important... and after having them on my truck for ~15K miles or so I can confirm that they do in fact have nice road manners. As stated earlier, they're the lightest E-load tire out there in 265/70/17 (46 lbs) which is a big reason why I chose them. They're also $20/apiece cheaper than BFGs.

[MENTION=2798]JB.[/MENTION] must be out wheeling right now. He's really the best one to comment on the Revo vs. KO2 argument.

 

[07V8]

Have KO2's in E. They are unbelievable, miles better than the original KO I replaced. I will never run a different tire on my car.

100% DD street use.

 

[NinjaOne]

Was personally leaning towards Duratracs in 255/75, but heard a couple complaints about weak sidewalls. Anybody else have an issue with the Duratrac


I was going to get the BFG KO2, but not offered in the size I wanted

 

[Dbart82]

Ill jump in on this one. I have some E Rated Goodyear Armortracs on my Runner and I can say that they have great traction for what I have put them through and are silent on the road. I haven't really heard of anyone having these but I believe that they were put out to compete with Cooper's ATP and Hankooks ATM. The main reason why I got these was that I got them for $125 a tire, I found a site that had them for that price with free shipping and I got Discount to price match and even take off some of the installation cost because I could get them to my house without tax.

The only thing that I have noticed with these tires is that the treads have chipped a little but they have gotten my open diff Runner up some rocks that I thought I wouldn't be able to do.