Timely review, 4Runner Trail v. Jeep GC

[Jed]

And if you had 2 problems...then the LR owner has 4...if you had 4, then the LR has 8, etc.. Hmm, does not seem insignificant to me.

And remember, LR / Toyota is over 2. So, we're UNDERestimating LR issues. Good try JED, but i don't think so.

But I didn't have two problems. I had one problem. Lets deal in reality and not make assumptions here. So like I said, I had one problem in 7 years of owning my 4Runner. If the Land Rover is only half as reliable as my 4Runner, I can expect two problems in 7 years of ownership. Even if the Land Rover is only 1/3 as reliable as my 4Runner, I would still only expect three problems in 7 years of ownership.

Thai, this is simple math and simple logic. There's no way to deny it. You can say that I'd have more problems, but facts are facts. And you seem to be forgetting that I could have had 20 problems with my 4Runner over a 7 year period and ZERO problems with a Land Rover over the same 7 year period. It's absolutely possible and you can't deny that!

 

[Jed]

It is not extrapolating...it is trending.

Call it whatever you want...that's semantics for you. But I know you're smart enough to know that you can't possibly think that 1.04 problems in the first 3 months of ownership equals 12.48 problems in the first 3 years of ownership. You understand statistics, right?

 

[Thai]

But I didn't have two problems. I had one problem. Lets deal in reality and not make assumptions here. So like I said, I had one problem in 7 years of owning my 4Runner. If the Land Rover is only half as reliable as my 4Runner, I can expect two problems in 7 years of ownership. Even if the Land Rover is only 1/3 as reliable as my 4Runner, I would still only expect three problems in 7 years of ownership.

Thai, this is simple math and simple logic. There's no way to deny it. You can say that I'd have more problems, but facts are facts. And you seem to be forgetting that I could have had 20 problems with my 4Runner over a 7 year period and ZERO problems with a Land Rover over the same 7 year period. It's absolutely possible and you can't deny that!

And yet, somehow, you always think that this is about you?? When did this discussion turn about YOUR 4runner issues?? Simple logic dictates that this is not about you. It is about how more likely one to encounter problems with other brands.

Call it whatever you want...that's semantics for you. But I know you're smart enough to know that you can't possibly think that 1.04 problems in the first 3 months of ownership equals 12.48 problems in the first 3 years of ownership. You understand statistics, right?

Statistics...sure, you seem to be fixated on YOUR own statistics when the rest of us do not care about your statistics. Fair enough?

 

[Jed]

And yet, somehow, you always think that this is about you?? When did this discussion turn about YOUR 4runner issues?? Simple logic dictates that this is not about you. It is about how more likely one to encounter problems with other brands.



Statistics...sure, you seem to be fixated on YOUR own statistics when the rest of us do not care about your statistics. Fair enough?

This isn't about me, Thai. How could you even say that? I'm simply giving you ONE real world scenario....one that I know quite well because it is true in my own experience.

It's funny that you seem to question me, when you are guilty yourself of trying to sway the discussion. For example, this all started out as a 4Runner vs. Grand Cherokee thread. But then when the discussion turned towards reliability, you basically abandoned the Grand Cherokee and focused on the Land Rover, knowing full well that it was a less reliable vehicle and to further promote your own agenda.

You can say that you don't care about MY statistics, but the ironic thing is that I don't own any statistics. I'm just a small part of the overall statistics as a 4Runner owner. So by saying that you don't care about MY statistics just shows me that you don't care about ANY statistics. Numbers are numbers.....they don't lie. And if you look at the numbers, you simply can't deny what I've said so far. I've had one problem in 7 years of owning my 4Runner. I'm quite sure there are lots of people who can say the same thing. It's really not unusual....so why can't you admit that I'd have maybe two problems with a vehicle that is 1/2 as reliable as my 4Runner, all else equal?

 

[Koz]

:snacker:

Koz

 

[Thai]

Jed, where are you getting your stats from? Where can i find out about 4runner owners having just one problem since YOUR stats are apparently the norm?? Maybe i need to go over to the PROBLEMS section of this forum to create a poll.

Actually, you are the one that brought up Land Rover...not me.

 

[Jed]

Jed, where are you getting your stats from? Where can i find out about 4runner owners having just one problem since YOUR stats are apparently the norm?? Maybe i need to go over to the PROBLEMS section of this forum to create a poll.

Actually, you are the one that brought up Land Rover...not me.

Look up the numbers yourself....they are out there for anyone to see. In fact, it was you who posted two links to reliability websites, so I'm quite sure you know how to find the information you have requested. But like I said, my information is based upon my own real world experiences. I never said they were the "norm"....I never even suggested that. Do you think I'm lying when I say that I've had only one issue with my 4Runner in the seven years I've owned it? Is that somehow unbelievable to you?

And yes, I mentioned Land Rover....but you're the one who continually focuses on Land Rover to try and prove your points. That's okay, I don't mind....because even though Land Rover has a lower reliability rating than Jeep, it's still easy to see that even Land Rovers aren't the big POS that you're making them out to be.... Again, on paper versus real world can be very different things.

 

[Thai]

Look up the numbers yourself....they are out there for anyone to see.

But like I said, my information is based upon my own real world experiences. I never said they were the "norm"....I never even suggested that.

Blah, blah..."they are out there"...ok...thanks for that amazing insight. :redbrick:

I've had one problem in 7 years of owning my 4Runner. I'm quite sure there are lots of people who can say the same thing. It's really not unusual....

Hmm, interpretation varies i guess from what you wrote.

Anyhow, thanks for the discussion...it was not particularly insightful, but thanks anyways.

 

[Jed]

Thai,

I think this debate has run it's course.....I'm not trying to beat up on you, but like I said, numbers are numbers. I think you're in denial. Either that, or you're just blind to the facts.

Just remember what I said earlier:

If the doc tells me that I have a 0.8% chance of dying from a heart attack and a 0.4% chance of dying from a stroke, obviously my risk is twice as bad that I'll die from a heart attack than a stroke. But both risks are so small that they are not worth worrying about. And to put it into perspective, the Grand Cherokee is a heart attack and the 4Runner is a stroke. So yeah, there may be twice the risk buying the Grand Cherokee over the 4Runner, but the risk is so small that it's nothing to worry about.

Okay, I'm done.

 

[FourEyedWilly]

So I can give a V8 to V8 comparison as I have both. 06 TR4 V8 and a 2011 GC Laredo V.8 5.7.

Simple really,

• 4Runner is more zippy, GC is more grunt.
• 4Runner is more "in touch with the road", GC is smooth as silk
• The GC has far less cargo area, much more leg room in the seats
• GC roof is higher, even with the huge sunroof
• GC is FAR more pimp, TR4 is much more "me"
• Butt dyno tells me the 4Runner is faster, but the GC takes off much faster.

I LOVE them both, the GC is my wifeys. It's gets worse mileage than my 4Runner 13.8 to 12.8.

Jeep did a fantastic job I have to say. we'll see if it holds up.

Oh, they are both 4x4.

 

[Koz]

I guess you haven’t heard about the problems with 335i’s engine! Let’s see, BMW is on their 4th redesigned HPFP (High pressure fuel pump). They are experiencing an approx 34% failure rate and a 20% failure rate for a replacement pump. Also from what I'm being told by friends that own these engines, the injectors are failing at an even higher rate. Two of my friends have thrown in the towel and cut their loses and got rid of them. They refused to be driving around with a vehicle that can go into limp mode at any time (And have).

It is just amazing that the 3.0 TT BMW engine is still being awarded/recognized as one of the "International Engine of the Year", with all the problems and failures it has experienced. Also the fact that BMW itself is fazing it out because they can not fix it.

Koz

This is FUNNY!

Have A BMW With An N54? See Why These Guys Are Pissed - AutoSpies Auto News

Koz

 

[10majfar]

Done with motor trend

This comparison of the JGC vs 4runner had me thinking; something's not kosher here. Yes, they admitted the 4runner was better off-road, but they downplayed it so much that by the end of the review the average guy would think it's madness to own a 4runner as a DD.

Now, in their latest November issue, they are literally comparing apples to oranges; the 604 lb-ft Corvette Zr1 v8, to the 480 lb-ft flat six 911 Turbo. The sad part--the 911 still beats the 'vette in almost every spec. But at the end of the review, guess which car comes out on top?

Not only do they spend two pages trying to justify the comparison, the reviewer at some point decides to stop being impartial altogether. All their reviews become sales pitches at one point or another.

If I'm ever in the market for an (American) automobile, I won't hesitate to subscribe again.

Read the article for yourself, tell me what you think.

 

[CookieRoe]

CONSUMER REPORTS has JGC over T4R

Well, now Consumer Reports have the new Grand Cherokee beating the 4Runner. Blasphemous, right? Well, I don't doubt that the Jeep is more comfortable, able, yadda yadda yadda. What these magazines DON'T mention is the durability of these machines and almost ALL OF US KNOW that the Jeep will start to fall apart relatively early (they have consistently done so for decades, damn the fact that this from another manufacture). I've had friends who have had previous generation MLs and swear that they were absolute garbage. I don't know alot about the current ML, but no doubt its no reliability darling. The 4Runner will prove to be the "winner" as wear and tear/years wear on. Who likes an SUV that needs constant attention? Not me, that's for sure.

AUTOBLOG.COM (Jeep vs. Toyota)

 

[ronp8]

Well, now Consumer Reports have the new Grand Cherokee beating the 4Runner. Blasphemous, right? Well, I don't doubt that the Jeep is more comfortable, able, yadda yadda yadda. What these magazines DON'T mention is the durability of these machines and almost ALL OF US KNOW that the Jeep will start to fall apart relatively early (they have consistently done so for decades, damn the fact that this from another manufacture). I've had friends who have had previous generation MLs and swear that they were absolute garbage. I don't know alot about the current ML, but no doubt its no reliability darling. The 4Runner will prove to be the "winner" as wear and tear/years wear on. Who likes an SUV that needs constant attention? Not me, that's for sure.

AUTOBLOG.COM (Jeep vs. Toyota)

Honestly I agree with CR when they compare the two interiors. I think the jeep wins hands down on this comparison of interiors for the price range of these vehicles. The 4runner interior is cheap in my book at this price level and I cannot comment on the jeeps future durability. Some are not giving the jeeps a chance due to past performance. We did the same with Ford and GM and we see them now catching up to the japanese in quality. Maybe this is Chryslers turn but not sure. However, I will admit all my vehicles were and are toyotas and I will honestly say toyota cut major corners on the new 4runner in this price range. So only time will tell if Chrysler/Jeep has finally got their quality issues under control and I look forward to the competition which will make toyota get off their A#$. We all must admit that Toyota got somewhat arrogant and settled on the fact that people will buy there vehicles for the quality not the extra features. Well I want both at a reasonable price- lol.

 

[Thai]

Uh-oh: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/gener...replace-3-6l-v6-engines-yes-jgc-included.html