my92t4r
New member
where's the rest of the story?
Tint tickets = Utah
- Thread starter moto
- Start date
where's the rest of the story?
WanderingCoyote
New member
windshield tint?????
willbgood
New member
That is the end of the story...They, were pissed, but decided not arrest me or pursue it any farther...get cameras mounted. A Data logger is also worthwhile, really a must.
The cops knew it was a presumptive stop, they knew they held me longer than the law allows, for no real reasonable suspicion that gave them probable cause.
The police can only hold you for as long as it takes to write a ticket, unless they have reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed. Refusing to allow them to violate the 4th amendment is not reasonable suspicion, neither is nervousness.
They new it, they new I new it, and it pissed them off...like some children who do not get their way, he threw a silent temper tantrum and threw my license on the ground, rather then acting like an adult.
Today, whenever I get stopped in the car, or on the bike, and they ask me any questions, (and if you look at my picture, you can well imagine I get stopped often for my looks, but almost never where I live,) I politely refuse to answer on camera. I make it clear I am filming.
It goes like this:
Good afternoon, do you know why I pulled you over?
no (but I know its because of my bike or lifted vehicle, or just the fact that I have long hair, a beard and big dark sunglasses,(which are required for me to go out in the sun. By the way, for almost my entire life I wore really short hair and beard...cops hate beards, I think it is in the manual..."beards equal outlaws")
Well I saw you AbC or XYZ. License and registration and insurance please.(now, in my state you do not have to give them to him, or her, you just have to show them, I tried this tack, don't do it, they go crazy, and they escalate, and then you get charged with resisting because you are covering you head as he/she kick shit out you. Always think de-escalation, he/she has a gun and various instruments of torture and he/she will use them for fun, some of live for this, trust me I know.)
ok, oh by the way for your protection and mine I am filming this stop
Oh
Where are you headed?
do you have a reasonable suspicion to ask that question, am I being detained because of probable cause?
Are you an attorney?
no, am I free to go?
Why are you nervous, do you have anything in the car I need to be concerned about? (I always want to say yeah, me your a public servant and my rights should be your utmost concern, not your freak'in biker hassled today quota. But I hold my tongue, because that can be twisted into a reasonable suspicion and my whole point is to avoid having my rights violated any further by this state sponsored highwayman)
At this point they often engage you in conversation trying to get you say anything they can twist on paper to give them something that will give them a reasonable suspicion...I say nothing. They might also give what they consider a lawful order, I comply, even if it is unlawful...its always better to settle in court yourself than to have you widow and kids get a bigger settlement.
nothing, am I free to go?
At this point, they either let me go and or say I need to check out your papers...well not really, usually they say something more inane like let me just go check your license and registration and see if you have any warrants or problems we need to clear up. ( "we" I always want to say your my only problem at the moment, but again, I am trying to live a life of non-aggression and I want to deescalate as much as my conscious allows.)
am I under arrest (he knows I know the law so he is going to either say have a nice day or go run check, at which time he is going to know I have not always been a fine upstanding citizen. He than will make a judgment call and either write me ticket, give me a warning and let me go. More often than not, he is going to let me go, but occasionally I get one that wants to punish me for past digressions. In some jurisdiction, he already knows based upon running my tags on his onboard computer, and it is really the reason he stopped me.)
The cop who sees himself as the kingdoms punisher will usually come back and ask me to get out of the car, and step over here. He is trying to get away form the cameras. I comply and I tell him and I am going to record the interview on the phone for his and my protection. He might say no, and make me empty my pockets on the car for his protection...I always have the phone recoding when I put it down.
am I under arrest?
no, but I ran your license and it indicates you were convicted of abc-xyz. If you just let me search your car to make sure there is nothing wrong, (out of order, illegal, that we need to handle, or could harm you or me,) I will et you get on you way. He is almost always buttery nice at this point.
no, am I free to go
Have you been drinking?
no
are you doing drugs?
no, am I free to go?
what are you afraid of, what are hiding?
Am I free to go, am I being detained, or am I under arrest? (at no time to I appear aggressive, nor do I show my frustration...remember your body language, it can be louder than words).
why don't you want me to search your car?
because just like you I swore an oath, and I not an oath breaker. I swore to uphold the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. If I allow you to search my car I violate the 4th amendment of the constitution and I become your co-conspirator in this villainous act unconstitutional act
In three years, every time I am stopped, I am released, about half the time without a ticket. Only once I fully complied and would have done anything and answered any question, it was two female cops, in Vegas. They immediately made me get off the bike and handcuffed me. I am sure they would have killed me for the slightest provocation. When they pulled me over in Vegas, I pulled into a location with lots of witnesses, and I did exactly what they said...they did not care about witnesses, I think they were on steroids. There reasonable suspicion was I kept twisting to the side and listening to my engine, and they thought my bike might be unsafe...I shit you not, that is what they said.
Occasionally it continues, and I continue in the same manner, I answer no questions unless they are directly related to the stop, and I answer every question with am I free to go.
I have not been searched, and if I am searched, they will find in my vehicle a suspicious locked box. They will force me to open it, or force it open themselves. (better have a torch or the fire department). Inside the box is a copy of the constitution and the bill of rights.
Doing this just a few years ago was impossible, but with the advent of cameras, and the fact, that there is new case law in our favor, and organizations that are fighting the highway men, we can protest in this manner and we can force the police to behave, and in fact, we have the chance, with the camera and the internet to turn back the hoard.
PS: I was once part of the hoard...
my92t4r
New member
willbgood
New member
I repented, as in change the direction of my life, and became a defender of liberty, based upon non aggression. That's really the main theme of all of this.
willbgood
New member
I repented, as in change the direction of my life, and became a defender of liberty, based upon non aggression.
Alexis de Toqville stated in the early 19th century, "that the problem with the American experiment is the government will convince the American people that recreation is liberty and the people will recreate themselves into slavery".
He was pretty much right, and anyone paying attention knows that is the situation today...we even watch the alphabet soup of media outlets as if it is entertainment. Even out evening talk show use for product in their standup routines.
Fredrick Bastiat stated in the law "A Fatal Tendency of Mankind"
Self-preservation and self-development are common aspirations among all people. And if everyone enjoyed the unrestricted use of his faculties and the free disposition of the fruits of his labor, social progress would be ceaseless, uninterrupted, and unfailing.
But there is also another tendency that is common among people. When they can, they wish to live and prosper at the expense of others. This is no rash accusation. Nor does it come from a gloomy and uncharitable spirit. The annals of history bear witness to the truth of it: the incessant wars, mass migrations, religious persecutions, universal slavery, dishonesty in commerce, and monopolies. This fatal desire has its origin in the very nature of man — in that primitive, universal, and insuppressible instinct that impels him to satisfy his desires with the least possible pain.
http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html
That's really the main theme of all of this...who knew window tinting could be so politically intriguing.
Some of you are in lucky states - Ohio is 50% on the front windows. There are still some shops that will tint below that - but you don't get a receipt and you pay cash.
All of my cars end up getting 20% on the side and back windows. I was pulled over once in downtown Cleveland - back in 2003. They metered my windows and gave me a ticket. I simply went to my doctor and he wrote me a prescription for tinted windows because of migraines i get from the bright sunlight where sunglasses don't always help. I went into court and they dismissed the ticket but said the prescription would not stop them from pulling me over again.
I have never been pulled over since (knock on wood) and i just got the 4runner tinted with 20% up front.
All of my cars end up getting 20% on the side and back windows. I was pulled over once in downtown Cleveland - back in 2003. They metered my windows and gave me a ticket. I simply went to my doctor and he wrote me a prescription for tinted windows because of migraines i get from the bright sunlight where sunglasses don't always help. I went into court and they dismissed the ticket but said the prescription would not stop them from pulling me over again.
I have never been pulled over since (knock on wood) and i just got the 4runner tinted with 20% up front.
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my92t4r
New member
thanks, good story.
ralatkins
Member
Hmm, thinking how to respond here...... First, I am a cop. So let me get that out of the way.
At least here in NC, REASONABLE SUSPICION is what's needed to initiate a traffic stop. PROBABLE CAUSE is needed to search a person or vehicle without consent. You being a total dick isn't probable cause. Realize that there are a good number of officers that aren't angry or in this line of work merely because they got beat up in junior high. Some of us actually give a damn about enforcing the law and serving the public.
Will I initiate a stop for illegal tint? Maybe.... but it would only be a contributing factor not my sole reason for the stop. Would I write for illegal tint?? Yep, if I ran into resistance from some angry person when I haven't done anything to deserve the rash of shit that they are handing out.
KidVermicious
New member
Thanks for doing what you do. I know you don't hear that enough.
The kind of officers that willbgood is describing are all too common though, and I know you know this. The profession draws elitist powertripping jerks as much as it draws the goodhearted men and women looking to protect and serve, and the powertrippers are the ones that get all the attention and give the rest of you a bad name. Sorry, that's how it is.
It's a fact that public safety departments are getting more aggressive in their attempt to prevent/minimize crime, and a lot more indiscriminate in what they'll take action on. The us vs. them mentality (I pulled him over, ergo he's a dirtbag) is becoming more and more prevalent. I hang out with a couple officers from different departments, and I see it in their shop talk. They're good guys that would give you the shirt off their backs, but once they've got a uniform on they sometimes lose sight of why they signed up in the first place.
I don't pretend to be wise enough to know if willbgood is fighting his fight the right way, but at least he's fighting against the loss of his liberties. That's more than can be said for most of us.
ralatkins
Member
It is a fact that departments are getting hyper aggressive, yes. But I would like to point out that criminals are as well. In the 7 years that I've been in law enforcement, the attitudes of people have almost pulled a 180. Thanks to the media and others pointing out ONLY the bad, now it seems like average citizen has zero respect for a LEO. I had NEVER arrested anyone for Resist, Obstruct and Delay as a solo charge until early last year. Most of us (cops) and I do mean most, are honest hard working people doing a job. A job that pays very little and comes under the highest of scrutiny. A job that asks us to place our lives on the line every time we answer a call or initiate a stop, yet then allows the entire world to Monday Morning Quarterback our decisions when they haven't seen EXACTLY what we've seen. These same people damning us for our actions wouldn't do my job for three times my pay.
That being said, yes Law Enforcement draws a lot of people who think that they are untouchable. People who think that they can walk around with there ass of their shoulders and act like a total douchebag. But in ALL actuality, this is a truly small percentage of us.
All I ask in this is for you not to treat all cops the same. Because we are not all the same. Just like not everyone from any group is the same. Go do a ride along with a local department. Walk a mile in my (or any other decent officer's) shoes before you damn the entire profession. Much like all Vietnam Vets weren't all baby killers, we aren't all racists who merely wish to victimize the public that we've sworn to protect.
ShooterMcGavin
New member
Just to update from my previous post... I had the windows on my car metered. They are at 5% all around (not windshield). I added tint to the front windows of the 4Runner at about 25%.
willbgood, I commend you for your struggle to maintain your rights when faced with those who would ignore them.
willbgood, I commend you for your struggle to maintain your rights when faced with those who would ignore them.
jgue467
Senior Member
Is it politics or merely the same drive all earth animals have within?
willbgood
New member
Some of my closet and dearest friends are good cops. In fact, two young men are good cops because I was.
At one time bad cops were a minority and good cops tried to either weed them out, or keep them in line...times have changed, and good cops are out numbered by bad cops...in some jurisdictions the good cops are praying they can make their 30 years, or 20 until retirement and get the hell out.
Nothing in my post was meant to disparage good cops...its the bad ones I hate. The good cops, are basically good men, and men who believe in liberty, they are peace officers, not enforcers. I often end up talking with them further on the very same topic because of how I handle presumptive stops...in fact, I know of one who has changed entirely the way he handles stops.
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willbgood
New member
I wish that was clearer in my post, I do not treat all cops the same, and I know some very fine cops, and indeed, I am talking about dealing with bad cops, in a manner that is not rude and is non-aggressive.
my92t4r
New member
I agree, but abusive/bad cops are not given, they learned from inside out and somewhere in between and they have a sense of confidence that it is OK to behave like a THUG. Criminals are always going to be criminals, so it's the cops job to be the mature enough and find other alternatives to apprehend them instead of acting out the "ego trip" and stop bring family problems to work.
