Tire Size (265 or 285s)

[Luciendar21]

Long story short, I'm wondering if I can fit 285/75R16s on my 4Runner. It is relatively stock, but I just installed a Daystar 2.5in leveling kit (strut spacers).

I have been running 265/75R16 General Grabber AT2s, but due to an alignment issue the fronts are completely warn down on the inside corners. Even though these Grabbers are less than 1k mi in, I'm not sure I'm comfortable replacing only the fronts due to the potential of damage to the multi-mode transmission in AWD mode (damage to the viscus coupling for the front axle).

The tires are on ~2000 Tundra OEM 16" alloy wheels. I also have a set of Double-Y ~1998 4Runner Limited OEM 16" alloy wheels that I recently purchased. The plan is to mount the new tires on these rims and to sell the Tundra wheels with the 2 good Grabbers as a bundle for $500. I also have a set of ~2000 4Runner OEM 16" steel wheels, the hope being I can buy a used tire for cheap and replace my nonexistent spare.

The plan is to get Elderado Mud Claw Extreme MTs from Town Fair Tire in Portsmouth. The question is, what size?

 

[Luciendar21]

I forgot to mention that I'm on a pretty tight budget at the moment, so wheel spacers are out of the question.

 

[JayRolla]

I forgot to mention that I'm on a pretty tight budget at the moment, so wheel spacers are out of the question.

So 285's are almost out of question.

Aggressive 285's will make it hard to run also.

The 285's will most likely rub right up against the stock UCA. They will rub pretty hard when turning without a lift to help. Will need to trim the front bumper.

 

[Dezert4Runner]

An alternative to the 285's are 255/85/16. These are a skinny 33" (10" wide) vs the 285 (11.2" wide). They will not interfere with the UCA's but will require a 2"+ lift and some trimming on the front bumper. The Daystar spacer kit should do just fine. I'm running the equivalent tire size on a 17" rim (255/80/17 KM2), but also running Spidertrax to widen the stance.

 

[rideexileex]

1k on new tires and you're worried??? You'll be fine with that on the rears. Replace just the fronts. You are way over thinking this. Even for a 50k tire, that's 2% of its life. Do one burn out on the new set and you'll match perfectly.

 

[Luciendar21]

An alternative to the 285's are 255/85/16. These are a skinny 33" (10" wide) vs the 285 (11.2" wide). They will not interfere with the UCA's but will require a 2"+ lift and some trimming on the front bumper. The Daystar spacer kit should do just fine. I'm running the equivalent tire size on a 17" rim (255/80/17 KM2), but also running Spidertrax to widen the stance.

This is right up my alley when it comes to tire preferences because the thinner profile would be fantastic for winter driving (less tread width equals higher ground pressure and better penetration through snow to the traction surface underneath). 255 is also not so much more narrow than stock that it would exaggerate steering behaviors (play in the linkage).

The down side is that 255/85R16 is a fairly rare (and in some cases new) size and is therefore expensive. I'll give this some hard consideration though. For anyone interested in this size, check out this thread I found that has some awesome images of various 255/85R16 options.

1k on new tires and you're worried??? You'll be fine with that on the rears. Replace just the fronts. You are way over thinking this. Even for a 50k tire, that's 2% of its life. Do one burn out on the new set and you'll match perfectly.

Took a depth gauge to them, it's about 1/32 of wear (out of 14/32 of usable tread) so about 7%. I'm also a bit underwhelmed by the Grabbers. I still feel they are superior to BFG A/T KO2s (specifically they have better hydroplaning resistance with just about all other qualities being equal).

I'd like to find a tire that has better wet handling/hydroplaning resistance (via longitudinal voids, my ideal tire would be a Goodyear Wrangler AT/S or SilentArmor, but I can't stand the cost of the brand name, Kumho AT51 has less void but a similar pattern and is a decent option. Eldorado Mud Claw Extreme MT has longitudinal voids with a much more aggressive pattern and greater void, and is cheap).

So 285's are almost out of question.

Aggressive 285's will make it hard to run also.

The 285's will most likely rub right up against the stock UCA. They will rub pretty hard when turning without a lift to help. Will need to trim the front bumper.

I don't get what you mean about "rub without a lift"... I am running Daystar leveling spacers for 2.5" of lift. The front has also been trimmed slightly by the previous owner to fit the 285s I bought it with. Of course none of that really helps with control arm rubbing which is more a function of backspace (wheel spacers) and section width.

 

[JayRolla]

This is right up my alley when it comes to tire preferences because the thinner profile would be fantastic for winter driving (less tread width equals higher ground pressure and better penetration through snow to the traction surface underneath). 255 is also not so much more narrow than stock that it would exaggerate steering behaviors (play in the linkage).

The down side is that 255/85R16 is a fairly rare (and in some cases new) size and is therefore expensive. I'll give this some hard consideration though. For anyone interested in this size, check out this thread I found that has some awesome images of various 255/85R16 options.

My 3" front lift, 4" rear, and 1.5" body I still rub offroad with my 285's. If you are not wheeling than you should be pretty good.

Took a depth gauge to them, it's about 1/32 of wear (out of 14/32 of usable tread) so about 7%. I'm also a bit underwhelmed by the Grabbers. I still feel they are superior to BFG A/T KO2s (specifically they have better hydroplaning resistance with just about all other qualities being equal).

I'd like to find a tire that has better wet handling/hydroplaning resistance (via longitudinal voids, my ideal tire would be a Goodyear Wrangler AT/S or SilentArmor, but I can't stand the cost of the brand name, Kumho AT51 has less void but a similar pattern and is a decent option. Eldorado Mud Claw Extreme MT has longitudinal voids with a much more aggressive pattern and greater void, and is cheap).



I don't get what you mean about "rub without a lift"... I am running Daystar leveling spacers for 2.5" of lift. The front has also been trimmed slightly by the previous owner to fit the 285s I bought it with. Of course none of that really helps with control arm rubbing which is more a function of backspace (wheel spacers) and section width.

I guess I meant without a real lift. I have total of 4.5" front lift and 5.5" rear lift. I still get lots of rubbing on the trail. The spacers push out the wheels so it makes for a little more rubbing. I had to trim front bumper. Hammer pinchweld, cut flares. The rear still hits the back bumper but I live with that.

If your on the street than just some wheel spacers should be good enough to get by.

 

[Dezert4Runner]

The down side is that 255/85R16 is a fairly rare (and in some cases new) size and is therefore expensive. I'll give this some hard consideration though. For anyone interested in this size, check out this thread I found that has some awesome images of various 255/85R16 options.

The thing that really limits these is the fact that there is no real A/T selection to speak of. The closest thing to an A/T is the Cooper Dicoverer ST Maxx and that's about it. If you're in the market for a M/T, this size is hard to ignore because most of the polular M/T's are made in this size. The BFG A/T, for example, is made in a 33x10.50x15 and a 34x10.5x17, but for some reason they left out the 255/85/16 and 255/80/17 :noidea:

 

[Roc Doc]

The thing that really limits these is the fact that there is no real A/T selection to speak of. The closest thing to an A/T is the Cooper Dicoverer ST Maxx and that's about it. If you're in the market for a M/T, this size is hard to ignore because most of the polular M/T's are made in this size. The BFG A/T, for example, is made in a 33x10.50x15 and a 34x10.5x17, but for some reason they left out the 255/85/16 and 255/80/17 :noidea:

Well at least the modern MT's don't howl like the older models did. I think the MFG's have done a good job of quieting down the tread design, and making MT's more usable in snow.

 

[Scramble]

The Goodyear Wrangler ATS is the worst tire I've ever owned & hydroplanes on little puddles at 30mph! If you want the best MT for the price get the Hankook Dynapro MT's. I hit deep puddles at 60mph & no hydroplaning...at 70mph not so good but you shouldn't be going that fast in the rain anyway.

 

[Luciendar21]

The Goodyear Wrangler ATS is the worst tire I've ever owned & hydroplanes on little puddles at 30mph! If you want the best MT for the price get the Hankook Dynapro MT's. I hit deep puddles at 60mph & no hydroplaning...at 70mph not so good but you shouldn't be going that fast in the rain anyway.

Not the experience I had on a 2002 F150, I wonder why we had differing experiences. I also wonder why the Dynapro MTs provide good hydroplaning resistance for you, they have no longitudinal void, so how do they get rid of the water... I wonder if the unbroken horizontal voids somehow clear water efficiently. Generally horizontal bars/lugs are bad for hydroplaning (which the Dynapro MTs are all horizontal bars) because they act like paddles and push the vehicle up to the surface of the water.

Admittedly the Wrangler AT/S tires' hydroplaning resistance and wet performance drops like a stone as the tires wear down, the longitudinal voids are tapered so at half life they have only 33% of that void remaining. We sold the truck before we ever got to that point. Still, it's like claiming that Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires are poor in the rain when for as long as the tires have W (for Wet) showing (2/3 of the tire's life) they are actually the best wet tires I've ever driven on... even if they aren't so great for the last 1/3 of their life in the wet.

 

[Dezert4Runner]

Well at least the modern MT's don't howl like the older models did. I think the MFG's have done a good job of quieting down the tread design, and making MT's more usable in snow.

I had the BFG KM1 M/T a long time ago, and they were loud as hell when brand new. I bought my current KM2 at 50% tread and they were not as loud as I expected them to be, and that's coming from DD an A/T tire for the last 10+ years. I haven't really had any snow experience with them here in SoCal, but these KM2's do well on the trail though, so I'll run them a bit lower and start to reevaluate my options since I want the K02's. My preference for an A/T is due to tread life and my local terrain, so not having much in an A/T in a skinny 33 blows. I'll probably end up with a 285/70/17 when the time comes.

 

[Luciendar21]

Well at least the modern MT's don't howl like the older models did. I think the MFG's have done a good job of quieting down the tread design, and making MT's more usable in snow.

In all honesty the howling doesn't bother me in the least bit. If I'm not mistaken, the fixes to sound actually come from rubber compound changes, not design changes in the tread pattern. Modern rubbers allow them to make a softer (absorbing vibration and thus sound) compound that is still resilient and long lasting.

My suspicion is that big tire companies like BFG and Goodyear realized their patents on the tread patterns of best selling mud terrain tires like BFG Mud-Terrain KM1 and Goodyear Wrangler MT/R were nearing expiration and that soon other no-name brands would be able to produce the same tires at significantly lower prices. So they created new, unique patterns like KM2 and MT/R (Asymmetrical), promoted the appearance of those patterns, and now people continue to buy them even though functionally the old designs do the same job (or better) for significantly less money through other manufacturers.

Admittedly, BFG, Goodyear, Pirelli, etc. have an edge in rubber compounds (due to their much higher budgets), but is it really worth paying twice the cost per tire? I'd much rather have a $120 knockoff of a BFG KM1 than a brand new $250 BFG KM2.

 

[111db]

I'd much rather have a $120 knockoff of a BFG KM1 than a brand new $250 BFG KM2.

There could be a time that you may feel differently, but there won't be anyone around to tell.

 

[JayRolla]

In all honesty the howling doesn't bother me in the least bit. If I'm not mistaken, the fixes to sound actually come from rubber compound changes, not design changes in the tread pattern. Modern rubbers allow them to make a softer (absorbing vibration and thus sound) compound that is still resilient and long lasting.

My suspicion is that big tire companies like BFG and Goodyear realized their patents on the tread patterns of best selling mud terrain tires like BFG Mud-Terrain KM1 and Goodyear Wrangler MT/R were nearing expiration and that soon other no-name brands would be able to produce the same tires at significantly lower prices. So they created new, unique patterns like KM2 and MT/R (Asymmetrical), promoted the appearance of those patterns, and now people continue to buy them even though functionally the old designs do the same job (or better) for significantly less money through other manufacturers.

Admittedly, BFG, Goodyear, Pirelli, etc. have an edge in rubber compounds (due to their much higher budgets), but is it really worth paying twice the cost per tire? I'd much rather have a $120 knockoff of a BFG KM1 than a brand new $250 BFG KM2.

I completely agree. I only buy knock offs or treadwrights. I have had the TW last as long as a BFG. THey may not always balance really easy and sometimes get a little cracking in side walls but they have always done me good. Never paid more than $650 shipped for my 33" muds or a/t.

 

[Luciendar21]

I completely agree. I only buy knock offs or treadwrights. I have had the TW last as long as a BFG. THey may not always balance really easy and sometimes get a little cracking in side walls but they have always done me good. Never paid more than $650 shipped for my 33" muds or a/t.

I run 235/85R16 Treadwright Crawlers on my 96' Ram 3500. I am quite pleased with their performance, especially Kedge Grip. Kedge Grip is the ultimate proof that good solutions don't always have to come at greater expense... mix some walnut crumbs and some glass shards into the the rubber compound for the tread and voila, continuous siping of the tires as they wear.

I highly recommend TreadWright tires, but there is a cost/benefit decision to be weighed when you include the shipping, mounting, balancing, and alignment part of the process. Town Fair Tire (my preferred tire shop) does all of those things quite inexpensively if you buy tires from them, and they have a wider selection of brands so that you can ultimately find something comparable. There is also the nasty look you'll get from the tire shops when you tell them you want to install retreads from TreadWright.

Note: Seems they are now doing free shipping and delivery for all tires, which is pretty awesome and definitely helps give them an advantage. It was $185 for 6 tires last time I ordered.

 

[JayRolla]

I run 235/85R16 Treadwright Crawlers on my 96' Ram 3500. I am quite pleased with their performance, especially Kedge Grip. Kedge Grip is the ultimate proof that good solutions don't always have to come at greater expense... mix some walnut crumbs and some glass shards into the the rubber compound for the tread and voila, continuous siping of the tires as they wear.

I highly recommend TreadWright tires, but there is a cost/benefit decision to be weighed when you include the shipping, mounting, balancing, and alignment part of the process. Town Fair Tire (my preferred tire shop) does all of those things quite inexpensively if you buy tires from them, and they have a wider selection of brands so that you can ultimately find something comparable. There is also the nasty look you'll get from the tire shops when you tell them you want to install retreads from TreadWright.

Note: Seems they are now doing free shipping and delivery for all tires, which is pretty awesome and definitely helps give them an advantage. It was $185 for 6 tires last time I ordered.

Ive never got free shipping, but was usually around $50 for all 4. I always wanted to try the kedge grips but on a daily driver didnt think it would the best idea. They do offer road hazard insurance now at $7 a tire which is pretty cool.

One thing I will say is my buddys have ordered 3 sets in the last year or so and they all had issues balancing. Took a lot of weights, but they all did balance.

 

[Roc Doc]

In all honesty the howling doesn't bother me in the least bit. If I'm not mistaken, the fixes to sound actually come from rubber compound changes, not design changes in the tread pattern. Modern rubbers allow them to make a softer (absorbing vibration and thus sound) compound that is still resilient and long lasting.

Well it's both, but if you look closely at modern tire treads they are asymmetrical, even if the tread blocks are nearly the same they are spaced differently. That is huge in not creating standing waves and for breaking up resonances.

 

[Luciendar21]

One thing I will say is my buddys have ordered 3 sets in the last year or so and they all had issues balancing. Took a lot of weights, but they all did balance.

They can take a bit of effort to balance, but I've never had an issue with a decent tire shop getting them balanced. Yes they do take a lot of weights, but once they're balanced they're just as good as any tire on the road.

Well it's both, but if you look closely at modern tire treads they are asymmetrical, even if the tread blocks are nearly the same they are spaced differently. That is huge in not creating standing waves and for breaking up resonances.

That's an interesting thought... I'd love to see some literature on it if you know of any documentation produced by the tire companies. I'm one of those people who is ridiculously interested in understanding everything about tires.

Asymmetry also allows for combination of tread patterns for behavior under different conditions, the perfect example being Continental ExtremeContact DWS (my favorite all-season performance tire):

Each section of the tread provides different benefits to the overall performance of the tire. For example, the longitudinal bars and voids provide excellent resistance to hydroplaning in forward motion, while the crosshatch pattern provides exceptional traction in the wet while cornering. These tires are amazing in the wet, the best I've ever experienced.

 

[Roc Doc]

That's an interesting thought... I'd love to see some literature on it if you know of any documentation produced by the tire companies. I'm one of those people who is ridiculously interested in understanding everything about tires.

Google is your friend, (and mine:nerd.

The Fight Against Tire Noise - Tire Review Magazine

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/may/12/autos/hy-wheels12

Performance - Noise and comfort | Michelin The tire digest

I'm sure there are more.


Ooooh, here's a white paper that might hold you down for a bit.

http://www.eng.auburn.edu/files/centers/ncat/reports/2004/rep04-02.pdf