Tire Theory for the Limited Model

[mbezzlr]

Hi Guys,
Picking up a 2015 Limited in the next couple of weeks. Just waiting for it to show up. I found that the 20's aren't prevalent in stock size. I've read that I can go up to a 275 (more common), but I think that for the sake of convenience and future tire $$ savings I might just step down to the SR5 17" rims. This brings a couple of questions:
Will this look bad on the Limited? Overall, same vehicle, I know, but the limited has some extra trim pieces.
Will the resulting effect of having tires with a taller sidewall (more opportunity for bounce/roll) have a noticable impact on handling? I love the way the limited handles as-is.
Has anyone else done the same thing? Did it make a difference in ride/handling?
Is anyone interested in my 20" rims and tires if I go this route?
Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Mistaken]

Plenty of Limited owners have ditched the oem 20's and went with Trail or SR5 wheels and have good experiences. If you search a little you will see threads about it and their comments.

I think it looks good either way. The extra trim pieces dont affect the look by much. You can go up to 285's, they may require some trimming or molding of the fender liner, but are a popular size.

:rockon:

 

[Mistaken]

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/181948-some-desert-pictures-my-new-ko2s.html

One example.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

More pictures of the same 4runner listed above.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...ride-trying-warm-up-freezing-norhterners.html

 

[bimrunner]

I'd ask them to swap the TRD wheels on instead of the SR5. Prob have to put a couple bucks in, but they look better than the SR5. The other option is trail wheels. They are a little wider width than the LE and will give you more options if you want a meatier tire.

 

[IronManKansas]

I did the same thing a few days after We got our 4runner. The ride and handling has not seen any noticeable change. Also the 265/75s are a little wider and I like the stance better. Make sure if you switch them out that you get a spare that is the same size. I went with the 2013 FJ wheels and got 5 matching rims.

 

[knox4rner2014]

Here is my Limited

Figured I'd add mine as well.....

 

[dwm2112]

I dropped to 17" Method Standards on my wife's Limited and like the result. No issues with ride, if anything it is better with more tire sidewall.

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[Crushinator]

I just replaced my 2015 Trail Edition wheels and tires and been kicking around the idea of selling mine. They have about 600 miles on them and are like new. They have the sensors too. PM me if you're interested. I have no idea how much they're all worth. They would definitely look great on your limited.

 

[Jhalko]

I sold my 20's on CL with no trouble at all, got a good price as well. If the TRD wheels had been out I would have negotiated with the dealer to swap out, I ended up getting 10-13 SR5 wheels which are working perfect for me. No difference in ride or gas mileage with just that swap, with LT tires which have a stiffer sidewall anyway.

 

[rigtec]

"...Will the resulting effect of having tires with a taller sidewall (more opportunity for bounce/roll) have a noticable impact on handling? I love the way the limited handles as-is..."

Hi mbezzlr,

And congratulations on your 'soon to be' new truck, you must be excited! One of the reasons that the "Limited Edition" is utilizing 'low profile' wheels is because; Unlike it's off-roading counterpart, the "Trail Edition" It's designed to perform much greater on the open road; particularly at higher speeds and around curves and on corners. To facilitate that, the limited edition uses a Top Shelf 'High Performance', inter-connected, cross linked shock absorber system known as "XREAS" which means: Cross-linked (or X) Relative Absorber System. None of the other trim levels (SR5 and Trail) are available w/ this system; not even at the 'Premium' level. The reason that I'm saying this is because the lower profile tire/wheel are a part of the truck's superior On-road performance so by relinquishing the shorter sidewall/larger rim dia, you will compromise some of what the 'limited' is all about... Maneuvering!

OTOH however, the limited is not a great 'Off-road' vehicle; likely due to the relatively stiff hydraulic damping wrt wheel articulation and lack of body-roll freedom! Also in your post you mentioned that the 20" tire/rim size wasn't very "prevalent", referring to the availability of that size tire... I don't think you'll have any future trouble finding that tire size in BF Goodrich, GdYr, Dunlap, Michelin,...etc! The tire that I bought for my limited (Goodyear Eagle LS-2) is the Standard (stock) tire for the Escalade, suburban, Yukon, Tahoe and the Lincoln Navigator; which is the same size tire (275/55 R20) that I'm running, See link: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...n0FDDIHohgZFMB2qQ&sig2=7Q-Qnls_1ZSsql09wEkweA

Also, I wasn't sure if you were familiar w/ the X-REAS suspension system so I'm leaving a link here that explains just how it actually works... If you already know about this hydraulic damping system, I apologize; I don't mean to talk down to anyone, Here's that link: http://www.top4runners.com/ja/2007/lift/xreas.pdf

Rgds

 

[Deep Snow Commuter]

2014 Limited Edition with Trail Wheels

I spent months debating an Outback vs. a 4Runner vs. a Pilot, a 4Runner Trail edition vs the Limited, etc. The "tree hugger" ads repelled me from choosing the subie, the engine vibration issues steered me away from the Pilot, and the torsen diff in the Limited edition with its "always on" 4wd system was among the final factors that led me to choose a 2014 LIMITED EDITION 4Runner.

I live in southern Indiana and I work in Houghton, Michigan (home to Michigan Tech. Univ.). I commute back and forth 4 times a month, 750 miles each way. The drive is 13 hours across what can be 60 degree temps in Indiana (60 miles north of Kentucky) on the same day I cross a blizzard anywhere from Champaign, IL to Houghton. The UP of Michigan is permanently snowed in from Thanksgiving on, and it snows seemingly ceaselessly. When I arrive back in MI, it's Sunday night past 10pm, the road crews are gone, the sparsely-traveled highways are completely whited out, the elevation ranges from 760 feet to almost 1800 feet, the lake effect snow can be coming down heavily enough to cause whiteout conditions, and deer can pop out in front of you on these curvy two lane highways with no visible warning.

I needed a reliable, robust vehicle with enough creature comforts to keep me safe and happy for these 4 x 13 hour commutes I drive each month. I do essentially no off road driving.

So the LE's torsen and its ground clearance could get me out of a 30" snow drift ON A PAVED SURFACE even with all season tires. But it's about so much more than that, than STARTING to move and driving 10 mph for 3 blocks.

There is powdery snow, frozen caked snow, melted then refrozen snow, sandy snow, slushy snow, there is snow on gravel, snow on asphalt, snow on soil, snow on ice, snow on grooved concrete, etc. These debates about "are skinny or fat tires better on snow?" are worthless b/c they fail to cross reference all these other variables.

All season tires are clearly inferior on most varieties of snow when it comes to STOPPING and TURNING. So I really wanted better than the 5 or so tire options for the 7" wide rim on the LE.

I chose a set of the 7 spoke 17x7.5 wheels, actually off an FJ Cruiser, and donned a set of Goodyear Wrangler AT Adventure with Kevlar tires in 265/70 R17. I have only the trip up here to Houghton to speak of so far, but (1) they're quiet on dry highway, (2) they did not hydroplane at 68 mph in the light rain across Wisconsin, (3) the mpg for the 750 mile trip up here was 21.2 (winter 10% ethanol), (4) they HANDLE very nicely on dry surfaces; cornering is distinctly more stable with less roll, (5) they STOP and TURN in the snow up here [our base is over 20" now] MUCH better than the Continental Cross Contacts they replaced (see comments below), (6) unlike a Blizzak, etc, they have a 60,000 mile treadlife warranty.

I could go on forever but I'll close this entry with some photos if I can technically do this (this is my FIRST entry on the forum). I am very much sold on this tire / wheel combination.

THE PHOTOS: (1) and (2): The finished product and a closeup of the wheel / tire. (3): An intermediate stage shot from last summer with my 275/55 R20 Continental Cross Contact LE 20's. (4): A shot "just left the dealership" with the running boards still attached and before I put on mudflaps and the Cross Contacts. (5): Then a shot of my 20" LE wheels with the Continentals sitting in the back of my awesome Sierra.
By the way, these photos were taken back in southern Indiana where there is no snow as of Christmas Eve.

Happy Holidays from "Deep Snow Commuter"
Houghton, Michigan -- where we know about snow and hills
Christmas Eve, 2014

 

[Deep Snow Commuter]

Tire sizes/choices for LE Wheel

The entry above mine was excellent. A great description of the X-REAS system available only on the Limited edition. This On-Road capability of the LE is among those factors which led me to choose my LE over a Trail or the SR5. And the Bose stereo is better than the home stereo I had when I was in college, the rich bass even at quieter volumes, etc. These are the comfort factors I wanted to make my 13 hour, 4 times a month commute more pleasant.

But let me add something about tire choices on the stock 20x7" rim of the LE. "Blonde vs brunette?" Yeah, yeah, here we go again, it's been covered hundreds of times on the forum, but I'll upload some photos to try to contribute something NEW in the way of some VISUAL evidence about the rim size.

I went through the whole "...what tires CAN I stick on this rim?" debate last summer. First, there were many debates about the TRUE dimensions of the LE rim, fueled by an official Toyota PDF somewhere out there which listed the 2014 LE rim dimension as "20 x 7.5 inches". That is NOT ACCURATE!!

My reply: SEE ATTACHED PHOTOS. My 2014 LE rims, measuring 7.0 inches.

As far as whether to mount 275/55 R20s on a 7" rim, the Continental Cross Contact LE20 with Eco-plus tech tires in 111 load rating WERE approved for 7.0 inch wheels (both on the Continental Tires website and echoed on Tire Rack; the higher load rated tires -- 117S -- had a minimum rim width of 7.5 inches; BUT now their lawyers must have sent out TPS reports or something because the parrots at Tire Rack have CHANGED the minimum rim width for the 111 load rated tires to 7.5 while not even listing the 117S tires anymore -- don't you love consistency; I'm convinced the reviews at Tire Rack are at least 50% written by professional shills and this further erodes my faith in their legitimacy, BUT I DIGRESS...). Go to tire rack, enter your tire choice, plug in "275/55 20" or whatever you want, and hit "specs". Look at the minimum approved rim width.

Then choose for yourself. Lots of people mount tires approved for 7.5 + inch rims on the 7.0 inch LE rims. You can decide. But MY driving situation is radical enough for me not to have wanted to screw around with "off label" use. It's not just about lawyers, it's not just about safety. It's about me getting the best possible performance out of my tires that I can.

Best wishes, Deep Snow Commuter

 

[Deep Snow Commuter]

Consider Wheel / Tire Weights

mbezzlr,

Another thing to consider with respect to the handling of your 4Runner is the weight of the wheel / tire combination.

Rotational inertia affects braking a small amount but it can have a noticeable impact on acceleration, both from zero and from whatever to whatever. Likewise, a heavier tire / wheel set acts like a heavier GYROSCOPE as you drive down the road. A heavier tire / wheel set will RESIST your turning / steering inputs and will seem to fight against you more than will a lighter set, with more of an effect as you drive faster.

Then there's Vertical inertia -- while it's mostly theoretical, the "unsprung" weight of the tire / wheel combo can impact the way the suspension copes with undulating surface conditions such as speed bumps.

Here's some data:

The OEM 20 rims on the LE have been described as weighing 39 lbs on the forum. My new 7 spoke Trail Premium (identical to FJ Cruiser wheels) weigh 29.2 lbs. I don't know what the "flat head screwdriver" -type six spoke SR5 wheels weigh, but it's probably closer to what the Trail wheels weigh, and if anything I'd guess they're even less than the 29.2.

The OEM 245/60 R20 Duellers weigh 35 lbs. The OEM Geolanders weigh 36 lbs. The 275/55 R20 Cross Contacts weigh 40 lbs. My Wrangler Kevlars weigh 42 lbs. In 265/70 R17 (which are still available according to Tire Rack et al), the BF Goodrich A/T TA KOs weigh 45 lbs., and if you get the higher load rated KOs those monsters weigh 55 lbs each (and be aware that the BFG KOs have NO treadlife warranty).

So I lost 10 lbs per wheel with my new rims and added 7 lbs per wheel (I had the Duellers) for a net loss of 3 lbs per wheel.

For most drivers 3 lbs per wheel variation would probably not be noticeable, but the weight is something to consider when someone starts looking at Godzilla wheels with King Kong tires.

Merry Christmas.

 

[Bilbo]

All good advice above, but let me add one more thing. Treat yourself to some high performance driving classes. No one is born knowing how to drive.

Here is one:Attended: Bridgestone Winter Driving School

Merry Christmas!

 

[LBI Fluke Drifter]

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I have a 2012 Limited 4Runner and I swapped out the 20” limited stock rims for 17” rims that are stock on the SR5. The off-roading that I do is on the beach surf fishing so a tire with more rubber that I can air down to get a wider profile is better suited for my needs. I am intrigued by Rigtec’s comments implying that I might not be getting the most out of my limited 4Runner running on 17” rims and 265/70/r17 tires. I had Dunlop brand tires that are pictured but last week I just switched to Michelin LTX MS2 tires. I have been happy with the ride and handling of the vehicle with these rims and tire size. My perception is that I am seeing a trend with more vehicles outfitted with more wheel and less tire which appeals to some people from an aesthetics standpoint but might be giving up something in terms of comfort and functionality. I think that the limited 4Runner looks fine with 17” rims, I’ve been thinking about at some point upgrading to a different rim but I like how the metallic look of the rims matches the metallic appearance on the door handles. I’ll let you guys be the judge.

 

[gringo]

Went with black 17"'s and never looked back:nod:

More sidewall, more tire options, and better look in my opinion.

Sold my 20"'s on craigslist within a week of posting.

 

[Deep Snow Commuter]

Driving lessons

Excellent advice.

I have to mention that I got my first drivers license in 1975 driving rear wheel drive vehicles in central Iowa. I've driven 2WD pickups in blizzards on super slick roads between Marshalltown and Des Moines where the back end slid out 45 degrees to the direction of travel at 50 mph and I never left the lane. I could moonlight as a professional drifter.

Antilock braking? What is that? (Tongue in cheek.)

To this day I'm convinced I could handle a vehicle without ALB better than with it.

Are the VSC and ALB technologies a good thing? Of course they are - for the masses. I know it sounds "cocky" but those things are really for "the masses". Given the conditions in which I learned to drive, I wish I had the OPTION is disabling antilock brakes.

I also know that overconfidence on the road will kill you, and that sometimes the best driving technique is to never leave the house, but when the pager goes off at 4am for a stat C-section in a blizzard with 3 foot snow drifts out there, I'll take great tires, good ground clearance, and my winter driving experience over what a seminar full of paralegals has to say.

 

[Deep Snow Commuter]

LBI Fluke Drifter,

Those look great, and I agree about the smooth metallic wheel spoke appearance near the gray of the vehicle.

I went with the 7-spoke wheels of the Trail Premium variety, and compared to 7000 miles of mostly-highway driving with the 20" Limited Edition wheels, I have not felt any decline in maneuverability or ride comfort. MPG is subject to so many factors, but I haven't noticed a decline in fuel economy, either, making me question the often said line that Toyota chose those Conestoga Wagon wheels for the LE in the first place to offset the impact of the full time 4WD / torsen system on fuel economy.

 

[markuspreppus]

speedometer change?

Does changing the wheels out have an effect on the speedometer showing the correct speed?