Tires for an Overland Setup

[ade678]

Hi Everyone,

I’m going to revisit the (very) familiar forum topic of tires with the hope of getting some advice about what might work best for an “overland setup”. (Note: This is sort of a continuation of a discussion towards the end of this post, but I figured a separate thread might be useful).

I've already spent a while digging through the forum archives, and have turned up several great posts and opinions (esp. here, here, here, and here), but I’d like to ask a few questions that I don’t think have been answered yet (apologies in advance if they have).

Briefly, this summer I dragged wife, newborn, large dog, and a small off-road teardrop from Pennsylvania through the Utah desert, up to the Yukon arctic, back east through the maritime provinces, and then up into Newfoundland and Labrador (again, see here for a few pics). Altogether we did ~17k miles (16,992 to be exact) in 105 days, of which ~1,500 was definitely high clearance 4WD (especially since the winter snow pack was unusually high and the road graders didn’t start work until late in the summer), another ~1,500 was cushy gravel and sand, and the remaining 14,000 was highway (I’m surprised more people don’t rave about how rock solid the 4Runner is at 80 mph).

Anyhow, I figured I’d make the OEM Dunlops last as long as I could (I had two sets including spares and the wheels on the trailer, which are the same as on the truck and can be swapped in when necessary)… Three (3!) irreparable punctures later I began to realize the necessity of C or E rated tires when fully loaded AND towing in the backcountry.

I’ve narrowed my choice down to the Cooper AT/3’s and the BFG KO2’s (pretty common I think), but don’t know which load rating to go with.

A few questions:
— Is C enough? Or should I bump up to E?
— Any ideas about the difference for highway ride quality?
— Just how important is sidewall construction (AT/3 isn’t 3 ply)?
— I’d almost just go with the AT/3’s based on 1engineers’s post and the general consensus that the Coopers are better on wet pavement, but I don’t know if this all changes in a C or E.
— Any opinions about aesthetics? I’m not too keen on the white lettering on the AT3. I know it can be swapped to the inside, but I suspect this might look weird. Some pics I’ve seen show tires all black lettering, but I can’t find these for sale…perhaps an older model?
— Did anyone catch the Expedition Portal review? (Another vote for Cooper AT/3, but no KO2 for comparison) Thoughts?
— Finally (and here I really don't mean to open a whole new can of worms), and brands you think I've missed altogether?

Thoughts?

Many thanks in advance!

ade678

 

[Jhalko]

You've done a massive amount of research without getting to a conclusive answer. Sounds like you should try the AT3's and if those aren't enough then go to a KO2.

I've done a ton of miles, including both coasts on all kinds of terrain with my duratracs, C load and they have worked, the AT3's probably would have done just as well.

 

[(none)]

c-rated are just fine, actually (IMO) they are about ideal. Extra strength without all of the extra weight.

From my own personal experience, i run Cooper Maxx ST in 255/75. Just a touch taller than stock and still able to achieve 20-21mpg on the highway, which is key to me.

 

[1engineer]

Hi Everyone,

I’m going to revisit the (very) familiar forum topic of tires with the hope of getting some advice about what might work best for an “overland setup”. (Note: This is sort of a continuation of a discussion towards the end of this post, but I figured a separate thread might be useful).

I've already spent a while digging through the forum archives, and have turned up several great posts and opinions (esp. here, here, here, and here), but I’d like to ask a few questions that I don’t think have been answered yet (apologies in advance if they have).

Briefly, this summer I dragged wife, newborn, large dog, and a small off-road teardrop from Pennsylvania through the Utah desert, up to the Yukon arctic, back east through the maritime provinces, and then up into Newfoundland and Labrador (again, see here for a few pics). Altogether we did ~17k miles (16,992 to be exact) in 105 days, of which ~1,500 was definitely high clearance 4WD (especially since the winter snow pack was unusually high and the road graders didn’t start work until late in the summer), another ~1,500 was cushy gravel and sand, and the remaining 14,000 was highway (I’m surprised more people don’t rave about how rock solid the 4Runner is at 80 mph).

Anyhow, I figured I’d make the OEM Dunlops last as long as I could (I had two sets including spares and the wheels on the trailer, which are the same as on the truck and can be swapped in when necessary)… Three (3!) irreparable punctures later I began to realize the necessity of C or E rated tires when fully loaded AND towing in the backcountry.

I’ve narrowed my choice down to the Cooper AT/3’s and the BFG KO2’s (pretty common I think), but don’t know which load rating to go with.

A few questions:
— Is C enough? Or should I bump up to E?
— Any ideas about the difference for highway ride quality?
— Just how important is sidewall construction (AT/3 isn’t 3 ply)?
— I’d almost just go with the AT/3’s based on 1engineers’s post and the general consensus that the Coopers are better on wet pavement, but I don’t know if this all changes in a C or E.
— Any opinions about aesthetics? I’m not too keen on the white lettering on the AT3. I know it can be swapped to the inside, but I suspect this might look weird. Some pics I’ve seen show tires all black lettering, but I can’t find these for sale…perhaps an older model?
— Did anyone catch the Expedition Portal review? (Another vote for Cooper AT/3, but no KO2 for comparison) Thoughts?
— Finally (and here I really don't mean to open a whole new can of worms), and brands you think I've missed altogether?

Thoughts?

Many thanks in advance!

ade678

You did excellent research except for two points:
There are no "plys" in tires anymore. So 3 ply is a misnomer. Just different carcass thickness as the rating goes up.

Second point: You went 17K miles. How much for fuel? If you went from "P" (or SL as they are now known) to "E" then you will lose 1-2 mpg for having to accelerate the additional unsprung mass of "E" tires. "C" will probably only cost you a few tenths.

Either choice would be fine and as far as having white letters turned in, they don't look funny at all. Why? Because after a few miles in the dirt the white letters become the same color as the tire, unless you are so anal you wash the inside of your tires.

Good job with the research!

 

[TheDozer]

My input:

A few questions:
— Is C enough? Or should I bump up to E?
I had C's then ditched them 5 months later for E's. For overland you might need the extra sidewall help.
— Any ideas about the difference for highway ride quality?
E isn't really that bad, not too much of a difference in my opinion. I think E's are a little more stable and tighter. The C's are a little too bouncy and spongy for my taste.
— Just how important is sidewall construction (AT/3 isn’t 3 ply)?
I went BFG KO2 275/70/17 E... more walls the better if you're in middle of no where. Don't want a rock shredding your side wall and walking 10 miles for cell service.
— I’d almost just go with the AT/3’s based on 1engineers’s post and the general consensus that the Coopers are better on wet pavement, but I don’t know if this all changes in a C or E.
Only change will be more weight on the tire could result in a little more grip. Personally I'm a huge fan of the BFG's as they've got me out of some hairy spots.
— Any opinions about aesthetics? I’m not too keen on the white lettering on the AT3. I know it can be swapped to the inside, but I suspect this might look weird. Some pics I’ve seen show tires all black lettering, but I can’t find these for sale…perhaps an older model?
Same thing for the BFG's. I put the white letters on the inside and I'm completely anal and I never gave it any additional thought about it. Besides unless you keep the white letters super clean they dirty pretty quick and will disappear after a few thousand miles being on the inside.
— Did anyone catch the Expedition Portal review? (Another vote for Cooper AT/3, but no KO2 for comparison) Thoughts?
Nope, sorry.
— Finally (and here I really don't mean to open a whole new can of worms), and brands you think I've missed altogether?
Cooper and BFG are solid brands with proven designs. Not sure your size but also there is Nitto and General worth throwing into the hat but if you're already set, no need to muddy the waters.

 

[Decipher]

Sounds like you got your answer on load ratings. I agree. As for tire choice, I would go with the Coopers for your needs and the amount of highway driving you're doing. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the KO2s but since you're looking to strike a balance and the more mild esthetic look of the Coopers doesn't bother you, that's absolutely the way I'd go. I think the KO2s are too aggresssive for the amount of miles you're looking to pile on.


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[The Waco Kid]

I'd go C if the choice is readily available. When I bought my ATPs, they were not available in C load, so I went with E. I haven't noticed much, if any hit to fuel mileage (even with the lift) but I suspect that my rim choice offset much of that, and I've made an effort to change my driving habits.l, coupled with much of my mileage being highway (95% hwy - 5% city). That said, if a rim change isn't in the books, I'd try to keep the unsprung weight down as much as possible, on a daily basis it won't really be noticeable, but long term it might add up.

As for tire brand and model... It's really a matter of preference. I've never been a KO or KO2 fan, but people swear by them and they last quiet a while. My ATPs are great in the wet, and I've never had an issue with slippage on gravel or pavement, it self cleans well too. (The ATP is a cousin to the AT3... Made for discount tire shops. Very similar tread pattern with a more aggressive shoulder). They're pretty quiet, but I only have 10k on them at the moment, with one replaced due to puncture (nail close to sidewall). See, even Es aren't impervious. Cs will treat you fine if not the same.

 

[ade678]

Hi All,

Thanks as always for the super feedback! I'm more convinced that the lighter C is the better choice, but still not sure. A bit of followup:

If you went from "P" (or SL as they are now known) to "E" then you will lose 1-2 mpg for having to accelerate the additional unsprung mass of "E" tires. "C" will probably only cost you a few tenths.

Wow! E will really cost me that much? If I may ask a kind of naive question: What kind of driving requires that kind of sacrifice? (Or, more specifically, do you think a fully loaded 4Runner with a small trailer -- say, 300 lbs of tongue weight -- bouncing through the backcountry qualifies? )

I had C's then ditched them 5 months later for E's. For overland you might need the extra sidewall help.

Why did you ditch for E? How was C inadequate? Did you also find a noticeable difference in mpg?

Anyone else have to make this choice?

 

[LawnDart]

I'd go E all day, errrr'day.

All the BFGs are kind of garbage tires in regards to a crappy sidewall. Every BFG tire in baja blew or had a stick in flat. The E's aren't as soft, but I've never had a flat in my E rated Nittos.

 

[Trixx]

So - you shared your experience for your recent family trip. However - what's in your future? Another similar trip? Hard off roading, etc?

I'd say the 1-2 mpg loss for a heavier E-range tire is accurate. More-so at higher speeds.

I have the Toyo RT (E-range) and am in the midst of a similar trip (currently 5,000 miles in, in Jasper Alberta). I'm towing a loaded up M416 trailer (around 2000 lbs) and have the 4runner completely loaded down.

My best tank towing the trailer so far has been about 18 mpg going 50-60 through mountains.

Interstate at 80+ mph is usually 13-14.

Empty is around 17-18 interstate, crappy around town, but I bet I could hit 20 on highways of cruising 50-60. I'd say down 1-2 from stock is accurate (including my 3" lift, sliders, and slimline bumper)

Just some further info on a heavier tire that is between an AT and MT.

Personally - I am very happy with my tire choice. I have had top notch experiences with Toyo in the past and wanted to stick with them.

They are probably heavier and stronger than most people need, however if I'm out hundreds of miles from the next town, I don't mine deciding to err on the side of caution.

 

[NrthRnr]

I just want to throw this out there as I've done an excessive amount of research on tires before settling on what we have.

I did two months of research (online forums and speaking with others) about tires for my needs which were similar to yours but less miles at once. Most of our driving is mixture of pavement, chewed up backroads, dirt roads and occasional secondary/tertiary access roads, and ultimately we wanted something not as heavy as an E load, decent wearing, relatively quiet, and an A/T design. Cooper ST MAXX C load 255/75 had it all. I've had them on since April and they have been amazing and quieter than my winters and slightly better MPG (could be the difference in temp between seasons though).

AT3 was second in line with BFG KO2s following behind but there were enough reports from others on the BFG KO2s about poor wet weather performance (design does not allow as effective channelling) and softer sidewall (also reflected in the 7lbs difference (45lbs) of the tire compared to ST MAXX at 52lbs for same essentially same size) that I bumped it down the list despite many others having very positive experiences with them. Wasn't worth the risk to me. If we were to drive our 4Runner more (either daily driver or long dedicated highway miles) I would have probably opted for AT3 (C load) due to its outstanding wet weather performance and slightly better MPG due to less aggressive tread. Ultimately I wanted a more robust tire for the non-paved roads/trails we drive on when loaded down with gear and the kids and the ST MAXX with Armor-tek was the insurance I felt was appropriate for our application. Granted, at times I think the tread looks overkill (and awesome!) but I still don't regret the purchase one bit. I am still floored at how quiet these chompers are on pavement.

 

[ade678]

So - you shared your experience for your recent family trip. However - what's in your future? Another similar trip? Hard off roading, etc?

I'd say the 1-2 mpg loss for a heavier E-range tire is accurate. More-so at higher speeds.

I have the Toyo RT (E-range) and am in the midst of a similar trip (currently 5,000 miles in, in Jasper Alberta). I'm towing a loaded up M416 trailer (around 2000 lbs) and have the 4runner completely loaded down.

My best tank towing the trailer so far has been about 18 mpg going 50-60 through mountains.

Interstate at 80+ mph is usually 13-14.

Empty is around 17-18 interstate, crappy around town, but I bet I could hit 20 on highways of cruising 50-60. I'd say down 1-2 from stock is accurate (including my 3" lift, sliders, and slimline bumper)

Just some further info on a heavier tire that is between an AT and MT.

Personally - I am very happy with my tire choice. I have had top notch experiences with Toyo in the past and wanted to stick with them.

They are probably heavier and stronger than most people need, however if I'm out hundreds of miles from the next town, I don't mine deciding to err on the side of caution.

Hey [MENTION=164485]Trixx[/MENTION], Thanks for the detailed response! Yes, I plan on similar adventures in summers to come (wife and child willing!) I've played rock crawling a bit and it just isn't my style.

A quick followup: Do you tun the mpg drop was due more to the tires or lift? Thanks

 

[ade678]

I just want to throw this out there as I've done an excessive amount of research on tires before settling on what we have.

I did two months of research (online forums and speaking with others) about tires for my needs which were similar to yours but less miles at once. Most of our driving is mixture of pavement, chewed up backroads, dirt roads and occasional secondary/tertiary access roads, and ultimately we wanted something not as heavy as an E load, decent wearing, relatively quiet, and an A/T design. Cooper ST MAXX C load 255/75 had it all. I've had them on since April and they have been amazing and quieter than my winters and slightly better MPG (could be the difference in temp between seasons though).

AT3 was second in line with BFG KO2s following behind but there were enough reports from others on the BFG KO2s about poor wet weather performance (design does not allow as effective channelling) and softer sidewall (likely reflected in the weight of the tire compared to ST MAXX) that I bumped it down the list despite many others having very positive experiences with them. Wasn't worth the risk to me. If we were to drive our 4Runner more (either daily driver or long dedicated highway miles) I would have probably opted for AT3 (E load) due to its outstanding wet weather performance and slightly better MPG due to less aggressive tread. Ultimately I wanted a more robust tire for the non-paved roads/trails we drive on when loaded down with gear and the kids and the ST MAXX with Armor-tek was the insurance I felt was appropriate for our application. Granted, at times I think the tread looks overkill (and awesome!) but I still don't regret the purchase one bit. I am still floored at how quiet these chompers are on pavement.

Thanks for the detailed reply! Did you have a chance to tow off road with your C rated tires? Do you think they'd be good for the job?

 

[Swede71]

Have run my KO2 E rated tires in mud/rain/snow here in the mountains and am very happy with them on how they perform and stand up when going over sharp rocks in the back country.

 

[1engineer]

I just want to throw this out there as I've done an excessive amount of research on tires before settling on what we have.

I did two months of research (online forums and speaking with others) about tires for my needs which were similar to yours but less miles at once. Most of our driving is mixture of pavement, chewed up backroads, dirt roads and occasional secondary/tertiary access roads, and ultimately we wanted something not as heavy as an E load, decent wearing, relatively quiet, and an A/T design. Cooper ST MAXX C load 255/75 had it all. I've had them on since April and they have been amazing and quieter than my winters and slightly better MPG (could be the difference in temp between seasons though).

AT3 was second in line with BFG KO2s following behind but there were enough reports from others on the BFG KO2s about poor wet weather performance (design does not allow as effective channelling) that I bumped it down the list despite many others having very positive experiences with them. Wasn't worth the risk to me. If we were to drive our 4Runner more (either daily driver or long dedicated highway miles) I would have probably opted for AT3 (E load) due to its outstanding wet weather performance and slightly better MPG due to less aggressive tread. Ultimately I wanted a more robust tire for the non-paved roads/trails we drive on when loaded down with gear and the kids and the ST MAXX with Armor-tek was the insurance I felt was appropriate for our application. Granted, at times I think the tread looks overkill (and awesome!) but I still don't regret the purchase one bit. I am still floored at how quiet these chompers are on pavement.

I did not base my research on the internet only. I actually talk to people who own different tires. In addition, just with the 5th gen 4Runners I have had and put a total of over 150K miles on them, I ran four sets of tires and three unique sets. IEM, Cooper AT3 and the Nittos. I have a nice comparison post somewhere on the two. I have also purchased many sets of tires for other vehicles in my driving career. Over 30 sets easy. So, when I post something about tires, it's not the internet speaking only.

 

[Trixx]

Hey [MENTION=164485]Trixx[/MENTION], Thanks for the detailed response! Yes, I plan on similar adventures in summers to come (wife and child willing!) I've played rock crawling a bit and it just isn't my style.

A quick followup: Do you tun the mpg drop was due more to the tires or lift? Thanks

Definitely the tires. I installed them about a month or so before the lift.

I'd say my mpg drop was due 1/3 lift and 2/3 tires.

I'm with you on the hard off road stuff for the most part. I typically plan to travel solo I.e. Wife and dog, and don't want to push it too far alone.

 

[Matters]

Another vote for E rated tires. They just come with that extra confidence. I would consider some other brands if I were you. I personally am a huge fan of Nitto. Despite the weight ratings of my Exo Grapplers (which don't really make sense compared to the 285's) I'm still averaging 19 mpg combined. Yes, new lighter wheels will help as well. Have you looked into the Falken A/T3W's?

 

[ade678]

... I have a nice comparison post somewhere on the two...

I know! I read the entire thread...it's excellent! Do you think E is worth the tradeoff for my rig, or will C be sufficient?

Thanks!

 

[NrthRnr]

I did not base my research on the internet only. I actually talk to people who own different tires. In addition, just with the 5th gen 4Runners I have had and put a total of over 150K miles on them, I ran four sets of tires and three unique sets. IEM, Cooper AT3 and the Nittos. I have a nice comparison post somewhere on the two. I have also purchased many sets of tires for other vehicles in my driving career. Over 30 sets easy. So, when I post something about tires, it's not the internet speaking only.

1engineer, did I miss something?...as in not supposed to post because I did an exhaustive internet research on tires?

Indeed the majority of my research was internet based, based on other people's experiences on other forums (e.g. Expo) and sites with reviews etc for what it's worth...always careful to sift out any BS as much as I could. That's all I had to work with at the time and it was a big investment as well. Other than that I did speak with others in person and would approach others to get their opinion on their experience. From all of my internet research, I've been simply very happy with my decision on ST MAXX and it's worked out great so far. Anyway, all good. OP hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[ade678]

1engineer, did I miss something?...as in not supposed to post because I did an exhaustive internet research on tires?

Indeed the majority of my research was internet based, based on other people's experiences on other forums (e.g. Expo) and sites with reviews etc for what it's worth...always careful to sift out any BS as much as I could. That's all I had to work with at the time and it was a big investment as well. Other than that I did speak with others in person and would approach others to get their opinion on their experience. From all of my internet research, I've been simply very happy with my decision on ST MAXX and it's worked out great so far. Anyway, all good. OP hope you find what you're looking for.

Hey NrthRnr, I can't see that anyone said anything offensive...probably just crossed signals, which is common on the internet. Thanks again for your post!