TMT Front Bumper - BUYER BEWARE

[sn_85]

Any legitimate company would at least address the claims of you stealing another company's design but the fact that you guys don't even bother to address it says a lot about the company. Posting here must mean sales must not be doing well.

Judging by the response on the Group Buy page they don't seem to selling many (or any) at all lol

 

[Quebec]

Lessons so far I've learned in this thread.

1. It's OK to buy a knockoff as long as that knockoff is American-made.
2. It's OK to shit in MFRs group buy threads (not interested buyers, not previous existing customers providing feedback, just trolls).
3. Instead of focusing on improving their designs or reducing their costs to leave TMT (or anyone else) in the dust, relentless has chosen to poach TMT's GB thread.
4. Lots of loyalty to here to "muh hardworking american metalworker" on a forum dedicated to a truck entirely made and imported from Japan.

I don't want to see any b****ing talking about unbelievably long lead times or MFRs failing to improve their designs or ignoring enduser feedback (ex: Gobi vs Everyone - re: tube racks, Metal-tech vs Demello - re: sliders) due to lack of competition, because what you're seeing here is exactly how it happens. And yet there are still cheers.

I know many here can get very emotional about the brands they bolt to their trucks, this thread is great proof of it.

 

[wfo9]

Lessons so far I've learned in this thread.

1. It's OK to buy a knockoff as long as that knockoff is American-made.
2. It's OK to shit in MFRs group buy threads (not interested buyers, not previous existing customer, just trolls).
3. Instead of focusing on improving their designs or reducing their costs to leave TMT (or anyone else) in the dust, relentless has chosen to poach TMT's GB thread instead.
4. Lots of loyalty to here to "muh hardworking american metalworker" on a forum dedicated to a truck entirely made and imported from Japan.

I don't want to see any b****ing talking about unbelievably long lead times or MFRs failing to improve their designs or ignoring enduser feedback (ex: Gobi vs Everyone - re: tube racks, Metal-tech vs Demello - re: sliders) due to lack of competition, because what you're seeing here is exactly how it happens. And yet there are still cheers.

I know many here can get very emotional about the brands they bolt to their trucks, this thread is great proof of it.

Can't stand threads like this.

Agree 100%... it is a piece of metal that people feel thrilled about paying big $$s for as if it is some engineering and design marvel.... Shockingly most all look the same... How could that be LOL ... What's next.. someone copying floor mats or slider designs. The guys at shop X hired the guys from shop Y.. don't do business with them it's sleezy...


I respect the hard working folks who make this stuff (no matter where they are). It is difficult back breaking work.. but competition is a good thing for the consumer. Let the market decide and don't try to sway it with back channel BS.

This post is just as negative for Relentless in my mind and they may not even deserve it. If I was them I would want it deleted ASAP. But maybe that is just me and how I operate. We are all different... that is for sure. Let your results do the talking for you..

 

[flea1983]

Can't stand threads like this.

This post is just as negative for Relentless in my mind and they may not even deserve it. If I was them I would want it deleted ASAP. But maybe that is just me and how I operate. We are all different... that is for sure. Let your results do the talking for you..

Agree, especially taking into account the TMT group buy thread that relentless is posting in. Now I'd like to see relentless' bumper compared to Tmt and SSO to see how they stack up. IMO it sounds like a case of pot calling kettle black.

 

[JPOVS]

This stuff happens all the time in big business. Companies order competitors products to better learn about there competition.
When someone copies you, you shouldn't get bent out of shape, instead look at it as a compliment that you made something good and others want it.
I have no sympathy for anyone because they didn't file for a patent. I mean you have insurance on your workplace, why would'nt you get a patent (insurance for your design?
As a consumer I like it when this happens legally because it brings more competition to the market place and either brings prices down or makes the original designers go back to the drawing board and redesign it better. Win win for the consumer.
Just like the Molle rack, I feel we got a better product and better customer service with a different vendor in the game. The original designer eventually had to step it up in those catagories.

My occupation is being a mechanical designer.

 

[rayofsi]

waiting to see the backside of the Relentless. Theres only so much that can change. Mounting points will be about the same.

if TMT improved in every aspect. then its good for the customer. Asides from the big supporters of "pay more, buy american" .

 

[2barevo]

waiting to see the backside of the Relentless. Theres only so much that can change. Mounting points will be about the same.

if TMT improved in every aspect. then its good for the customer. Asides from the big supporters of "pay more, buy american" .

see the group buy thread. pics of the backside was posted there.

 

[Muzzle of Bees]

This stuff happens all the time in big business. Companies order competitors products to better learn about there competition.
When someone copies you, you shouldn't get bent out of shape, instead look at it as a compliment that you made something good and others want it.
I have no sympathy for anyone because they didn't file for a patent. I mean you have insurance on your workplace, why would'nt you get a patent (insurance for your design?
As a consumer I like it when this happens legally because it brings more competition to the market place and either brings prices down or makes the original designers go back to the drawing board and redesign it better. Win win for the consumer.
Just like the Molle rack, I feel we got a better product and better customer service with a different vendor in the game. The original designer eventually had to step it up in those catagories.

My occupation is being a mechanical designer.

Correct. But most people don't seem to that initiative or knowledge. I am currently working through that exact process for a product.
If you look at the design patent page and work through all that needs to be done to acquire a design patent it is very detailed and it can be very over whelming. Not an excuse, but more of a PSA for those not familiar with the process.

 

[rayofsi]

see the group buy thread. pics of the backside was posted there.

pics of the relentless.. i saw the pics of the TMT. relentless says its a copy. He could have atleast posted picture proof.

 

[lukeskywalker]

If these guys are from Venezuela give em a break! Their country is falling on really really hard times.

The world doesn't operate via the US handbook of standards.

 

[Jetboy]

For a product like this it's awfully hard to do anything innovative. There's only a few ways to design it, and it kinda has to have the same shape and size to fit the location.

It is pretty visually similar.

Personally, I like the SSO version better than any other one so far. They nailed the marketing on it - first to market, good product, and priced so well that no one else even tried to compete for years after the first one went on sale. I think it would be cool if someone would design some of these products and sell the DXF files for those of us with fab equipment and a license to build one model. That's fairly common in other industries, but I'm not sure how you'd really police the license in this kind of industry.

 

[e60ral]

i don't know that i will buy a steel bumper at all, but before this thread i didn't even know anything about TMT and now this is one of the few bumpers i would consider

 

[83Mule]

There are pics of the back of the TMT on the GB thread and it is well built.

 

[rayofsi]

does anyone have pictures of the backside of relentless?
I mean they said the back is a ripoff, but that post was 35 hours ago, and they haven't provided any pics of theirs.

Also the TMT roof rack is a full length, No drill rack. The prinsu is not full length no drill. It is actually innovative from the way it looks.

 

[flea1983]

does anyone have pictures of the backside of relentless?
I mean they said the back is a ripoff, but that post was 35 hours ago, and they haven't provided any pics of theirs.

Also the TMT roof rack is a full length, No drill rack. The prinsu is not full length no drill. It is actually innovative from the way it looks.

Hey buddy, you’re gonna have to take your facts and logic elsewhere!

 

[rayofsi]

Hey buddy, you’re gonna have to take your facts and logic elsewhere!

my bad, posted this on the wrong forum.

 

[wootalien]

Summary

OP is butthurt that TMT copied Relentless

Relentless copied SSO


Support the company you want.


/thread

 

[pixjohn]

I personally would be uncomrtable buying from a company with no US distribution.

 

[DeepSea]

This front bumper design has been designed by TMT as a direct reflection of the Relentless Fabrication Stingray Lo-Pro Winch bumper. They ordered and received a Stingray Lo-Pro from Relentless Fabrication a few months ago, and with a very similar design I can only imagine that the original was used as a template to base their design off of. Relentless Fabrication designed, tested and hand builds every bumper in Nevada and is not a large shop to begin with but manages to product some of the best armor on the market for our 4Runners.

I would urge you to buy from the company that put the time, sweat and blood to develop the products from scratch, and not from a company who takes a shortcut to produce an inferior product.

Relentless Fabrication Stingray Lo-Pro:

TMT version:

lots of similarities for sure. But you can tell they changed enough that they are not a direct knock off.
They probably bought bumpers from everyone making a slim/low bumper... For design reference..

Different in small ways, sure. The point is, they bought a product from another company to use as a template for theirs. They’re letting others put their time and money to develop products and then reaping the benefits, providing more competition on that product to the original company. It’s a shady way to do business, especially when the company who designed it in the first place is a small company of hard working people trying to design and produce the best products on the market.

I work in the off road industry and this happens all the time. It's nothing new. A lot of the stuff sold in the industry are re-branded stuff from the same manufacturers also. It sucks for sure but its the sad truth. R&D= rip off and develop . Also, looks like there isn't a way to buy that stuff in the US anyway so they aren't really stealing from the US market that Relentless is in.

most people here were fine with gobi racks being copied :shrug:


i actually like the bottom one better because you don't have to use the ugly bottom grill

Nothing new under the sun, especially in America where most things are invented, bought (or stolen) and replicated, sometimes made better than the original. Take Toyota for example. Who's to say they didn't just buy a Ford, took it to Japan, gutted it, made it better. In any case I'm glad they (Toyota) did because we all know which company out of the two produces a better quality vehicle. I personally know the owners of two of the most popular current fabrication companies and they both have said their product designs have been stolen and rebranded. I'm not justifying what TMT has evidently done just saying this is how most industries are. From cars to cameras, that is how competition and opportunity goes. Is it ethical or fair? Of course not but that is essentially what capitalism and a free market is. Just my .02

 

[e60ral]

the US has some of the best IP protections out there, however Relentless did not decide to file an ornamental design patent (although that might have been because prior art would have been iffy with the SSO bumper)