Top Overhaul or Rebuild...Really?

[hikinout]

Hey guys,

I have an 86' 4Runner. 5psd 22re. Had it about 6 months. Only has 122,000 miles on it and it runs pretty well, not rough or anything and decent pick up. Except that I'm EATING oil. About 1qt/150 miles. I can smell it and see it in the exhaust. There are no puddles on the ground.

So, I changed the valve cover gaskets, half moons, etc. and replaced the PCV hoses and valve, just trying to knock out the cheaper stuff I can do. Still burning through it. Also, I should mention there is a fair amount of blowback when you remove the oil cap.

I would love to go further, but I have no garage and pretty limited know-how. Also it's Fall in Chicago, which means it's cold and rainy and the shade-tree work sucks.

So, thoughts from the gallery? Top Overhaul? Rebuild? If the odometer is right and the guy who sold it wasn't a total scam artist (dealt with him several times and really don't think he is) then I feel like it's pretty early to need that level of work and it makes me nervous that I'd be throwing good money after bad.

Thanks guys.

 

[4runnpdx]

I had an '86 22re pick up with the same exact issue.
Truthfully, i'd just sell it.
But also I was getting annoyed of topping off my oil every 500 miles.
I started doing oil changes with 15w-40 diesel oil. It helped a ton with the oil consumption, but instead of every 500 miles of topping off, it turned out to be every 1500 miles. I did 7 months of that and just sold the p.o.s.

If your burning a quart every 150 miles you got bad rings man. If your attached to the rig i'd start looking for a wrecked 3rd gen and swap the drive train in it. you'll love the 3.4

 

[SV_Dude]

You said that you're replacing seals so are you leaking any oil or burning it? If you're leaking it then the solution is obvious, find and fix the leaks. If you're burning the oil you need to figure out why you're burning the oil. Do a compression test and see if you have any cylinders with real low compression. If you have a cylinder with little compression then there is a possibility that you're burning it through one cylinder. Your spark plugs may also tell you if you're burning oil... especially that much. You could also have bad valve stem seals and you may be burning oil through your valve stems. Also take a good look at your pcv valve hose. Is it soaked with oil on the inside? You replaced your pcv valve so that "shouldn't" be the issue. You have a passage in your valve cover that vents the pressure to your pcv valve. If that passage is clogged then you will have excess crank case pressure and you will get blowback through your piston rings and cause an excess crank case pressure. That pressure has to go somewhere and it usually ends up with oil in your cylinders through your piston rings.

Step 1: do a compression check and see if you have some worn rings. That's the easiest test. Look at your spark plugs to see if one is fouled or covered in a bunch of junk.

Step 2: A leakdown test will tell you if your cylinders are holding pressure. If they're not holding pressure and you have good compression from the compression test then you may have a valve issue.

Step 3: check out your valve cover and see if that passage is clear and free flowing.

Step 4: report back here and get more wtf information.

Good luck!

 

[SV_Dude]

I had an '86 22re pick up with the same exact issue.
Truthfully, i'd just sell it.
But also I was getting annoyed of topping off my oil every 500 miles.
I started doing oil changes with 15w-40 diesel oil. It helped a ton with the oil consumption, but instead of every 500 miles of topping off, it turned out to be every 1500 miles. I did 7 months of that and just sold the p.o.s.

If your burning a quart every 150 miles you got bad rings man. If your attached to the rig i'd start looking for a wrecked 3rd gen and swap the drive train in it. you'll love the 3.4

Horrible advice! You cannot own a 20+ year old vehicle and not expect to maintain it. If you want something to drive and ignore then go buy something new that you can neglect.

 

[nevada]

1 quart per 150 miles? that's crazy!

do a compression, and leakdown test and go from there.

 

[4runnpdx]

Horrible advice! You cannot own a 20+ year old vehicle and not expect to maintain it. If you want something to drive and ignore then go buy something new that you can neglect.

just my opinion. you got yours and i got mine. CHILL! :whipping2

 

[SV_Dude]

just my opinion. you got yours and i got mine. CHILL! :whipping2

No one's getting their panties in a bunch. I'm just stating the obvious.

 

[hikinout]

Thanks guys.

Both ideas had crossed my mind, so thanks for representing and hashing out my conflicting opinions.

I'll do the tests and get back.

 

[crash813]

Honestly I wouldn't even bother with the compression check. If its putting that much pressure into the crankcase you already have a problem. Its more than likely blowby from the rings. Your choice is sell it...cheap rebuild/replacement or high dollar rebuild/replacement. It just depends on how much you like the car. Like mentioned before....these guys are too old to expect to drive with minimum upkeep.

 

[nevada]

Hey guys,

I have an 86' 4Runner. 5psd 22re. Had it about 6 months. Only has 122,000 miles on it and it runs pretty well, not rough or anything and decent pick up. Except that I'm EATING oil. About 1qt/150 miles. I can smell it and see it in the exhaust. There are no puddles on the ground.

So, I changed the valve cover gaskets, half moons, etc. and replaced the PCV hoses and valve, just trying to knock out the cheaper stuff I can do. Still burning through it. Also, I should mention there is a fair amount of blowback when you remove the oil cap.

I would love to go further, but I have no garage and pretty limited know-how. Also it's Fall in Chicago, which means it's cold and rainy and the shade-tree work sucks.

So, thoughts from the gallery? Top Overhaul? Rebuild? If the odometer is right and the guy who sold it wasn't a total scam artist (dealt with him several times and really don't think he is) then I feel like it's pretty early to need that level of work and it makes me nervous that I'd be throwing good money after bad.

Thanks guys.

that is normal for the 22r, even on a new healthy engine.

drive for a while with the cap off, and you'll toast the engine, as it will blow most of the oil out.

 

[KidVermicious]

I've had three 22REs now and each one has used a little oil, but a quart every 150 miles is crazy.

If the mileage of 122k is accurate, that motor sat. For a while. Doing nothing. Motors hate that, and that's probably why it's got trouble now. But assuming that the body and interior is in good shape, or at least easily fixable, I'd a) go ahead with the engine work, or b) pick up a long block and swap it out. One will be cheaper, the other will be quicker and easier, up to you. But either is worth it, assuming the rest of the truck is in good shape.

Wrenching outside in the winter sucks, but an easy-up wrapped in a tarp will keep the wind and the snow off you. Or, keep on pouring oil in it until spring, you won't hurt anything as long as you keep it topped off.

 

[hikinout]

drive for a while with the cap off, and you'll toast the engine, as it will blow most of the oil out.

Ha, I'm not driving it with the cap off! Just ran it parked for a minute to check it out.

I've had three 22REs now and each one has used a little oil, but a quart every 150 miles is crazy.

If the mileage of 122k is accurate, that motor sat. For a while. Doing nothing. Motors hate that, and that's probably why it's got trouble now. But assuming that the body and interior is in good shape, or at least easily fixable, I'd a) go ahead with the engine work, or b) pick up a long block and swap it out. One will be cheaper, the other will be quicker and easier, up to you. But either is worth it, assuming the rest of the truck is in good shape.

Wrenching outside in the winter sucks, but an easy-up wrapped in a tarp will keep the wind and the snow off you. Or, keep on pouring oil in it until spring, you won't hurt anything as long as you keep it topped off.

It did sit for a while, doing nothing. The interior is perfect and the body is pretty decent. Typical rusty rear wheel quarters and some rust on the frame, but nothing close to eating through and there are still some areas where there is paint. Unfortunately, up in the Midwest, that counts as pretty decent. I need to replace the rear door, but other than that...I'll probably go ahead with the engine work. Maybe time to buy a tarp...

 

[hikinout]

Well, the numbers are in and they're not great.

1 - 150
2 - 120
3 - 90
4 - 90

Also...

1) Adding oil to the cylinder through spark plug holes doesn't seem to improve compression and...

2) Ran it for a while and noticed that the smoke lessens somewhat after running for a while and doesn't pick up on throttle, so...

I'm thinking valves and gaskets are the source of my woes. I'm open to opinions from wiser men / women.

 

[KidVermicious]

Just to be clear (because I've made the same mistake) - you took those measurements on a warm engine, took all the spark plugs out, and held the throttle wide open while you were cranking, right?

I'm not a mechanic, but I'm struggling to see how bad valves or a blown gasket = oil consumption. I think if the rings are bad enough (and 90 PSI is pretty bad), all the oil in the world won't bring that number up. I think you're still looking at a complete rebuild.

 

[SV_Dude]

So you're smoking at first then the smoke goes away? That's usually a sign of bad valve seals but they won't leak to the point to where you're burning that much oil. If you're really burning that much oil you have bigger issues that valve seals I think. You may have a few issues that's all adding up. I'm with kidv, you're probably better off tearing her down completely and rebuilding it. You can get a good rebuild kit from engnbldr.com and rebuild the engine yourself for less than 500 bucks as long as there is nothing major broken. In your case, it seems like your engine is just old and tired so you can probably get away with rebuilding it for not a lot of money.

 

[brifri01]

I had to rebuild my engine in my 86. Went with engbuilder basic kit, but made few mistakes. Had the block decked tanked and honed. Also had the head done. If doing this you must deck the timing cover also. Head gasket interferes with the top causing it to leak.
Also not having it bored caused oil blow by and piston slap.
Got almost 30k on it in this condition wish I would have done it right after spending about a grand between new crank and rebuild and machine work. Also had bought a donor motor trans and tcase(mainly for 5speed swap and gear case).

 

[hikinout]

Thanks guys.

Took it to a recommended mechanic that rents out space in a machine shop. He checked it out and has recommended rebuilding the cylinder head.

total cost for them to do it - $650

I have made no decisions about anything. I must be Belgian, because I am waffling.

 

[hikinout]

Just to be clear (because I've made the same mistake) - you took those measurements on a warm engine, took all the spark plugs out, and held the throttle wide open while you were cranking, right?

Those were the conditions, yeah. So I guess I'm trying to decide between cylinder head rebuild/new from enginebldr, or going the full rebuild. One is cheaper and may get it done, and the other will most certainly get it done, but take more time and money, so...I'll spend the next few days thinking it over. Really appreciate the help, folks.

 

[RiFF RaFF]

Those were the conditions, yeah. So I guess I'm trying to decide between cylinder head rebuild/new from enginebldr, or going the full rebuild. One is cheaper and may get it done, and the other will most certainly get it done, but take more time and money, so...I'll spend the next few days thinking it over. Really appreciate the help, folks.

My personal opinion is this ...

If the rest of your 4Runner is in good/great shape, and you want to keep/run it for many years and trails to come. AND if you have the money (that's the biggy right?) - I'd do a complete rebuild top to bottom. If done right it will run (with the proper maintenance) for 100,000s of miles.

op2:

 

[SV_Dude]

If all you need is a rebuild on the head, you can get a gasket kit and head from engnbldr.com for a few hundred bucks and do it yourself for half the cost.