Toyota dealership put to much oil in, what do you think?

[EddieV4runnin]

I'm with you, Jetboy, but it seems the dark forces of voodoo, superstition, and OCD are swamping our pathetic attempts to convey reason and common sense.

Folks, a reading of a millimeter or two outside the dipstick markings doesn't mean your engine is going to blow its seals or suck oil through the intake or spontaneously combust. The amount of oil in the crankcase is simply not a Space-Shuttle critical measure. The dipstick markings are just a rough guide. The engine will work fine on any amount of oil between so little that the pickup sucks air, and so much that the crankshaft whips it into a froth -- and that's a very wide range indeed.

I wholeheartedly support any member on this forum who would like to take part in that experiment. Let’s all ballpark our fluid levels and then share our experiences. I can already see the amount of threads that would magically appear on this forum related to that buffoonery. After that maybe we can file a class action lawsuit against Toyota for engineering motors with restricted oil passages. :naughty:

 

[1jzgte]

Checking cold before starting first thing in the morning is the only way to get a somewhat accurate reading on the stick...

i bubble level front back side to side the vehicle before i take a reading...

 

[J.F. Sebastian]

i bubble level front back side to side the vehicle before i take a reading...

Well that's an interesting point. Should we check oil on level ground, with the frame level or both and what do you do if you have a stock rig that's raked?

 

[Deep_palancar]

A voice of reason here.

I'm with you, Jetboy, but it seems the dark forces of voodoo, superstition, and OCD are swamping our pathetic attempts to convey reason and common sense.

Folks, a reading of a millimeter or two outside the dipstick markings doesn't mean your engine is going to blow its seals or suck oil through the intake or spontaneously combust. The amount of oil in the crankcase is simply not a Space-Shuttle critical measure. The dipstick markings are just a rough guide. The engine will work fine on any amount of oil between so little that the pickup sucks air, and so much that the crankshaft whips it into a froth -- and that's a very wide range indeed.

If even a 2-3 inch high oil level was some detrimental mechanical concern a vehicle could never be operated on an incline. A moderate overfill will not create a higher oil pressure so blowing seals is not a realistic concern.
There is some level at which drain down from the heads could flood the cam shaft. Running the crankshaft submerged would probably be noticed by noise and performance long before the oil could frothed to the point of being un-pumpable.
Back when the FJ Cruiser came out there were many, many oil overfill events with this same 1GR engine. The oil pan drain is hidden behind the skid plate, the transmission drain is visible nearby. Dozens if not hundreds of them got the trans pan drained and another 6 quarts of engine oil added. Many of these drove like this for 5 thousand miles with no ill effects. I'm sure this dump the trans and add 6 more quarts of engine oil still happens all the time.

 

[Lester Lugnut]

As mentioned already, the lube tech used all 7 qts. Owners manual calls for 6.6 qts. with a filter change.

Also - see post #24 in this thread:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/262481-oil-level-reading-2.html

 

[Jetboy]

For a little more tech to help ease some anxiety if this has happened, more oil in the pan will never increase oil pressure. The crank case is not pressurized. The problem only exists if the oil is deep enough to hit the crank shaft. It will cause a hurricane of oil inside the crank case and froth the oil which could possibly leading to less oil pressure, but that would be a really extreme scenario where all of the oil is frothed so badly that the bottom of the sump is not picking up liquid oil. The pump is designed for non-compressible oil, it will then displace far less than enough aerated oil and pressure will go down. You're dash will light up. It will also create a lot of heat internally as the crank "blends" the oil. Typically overheating is a common an indicator. The same way a blendtec can make hot soup. You're oil will be a very hot latte. It's probably most likely that the first indicator would be a lot of oil through the PCV circuit and the engine will burn some oil. For whatever reason people seem to do this a lot more often in motorcycles and small engines. What I don't understand is why the heck any manufacturer would design an engine not to use a standard volume of oil. Either make it 6 quarts or 7. My Honda motorcycle takes 1.5. So I always end up throwing away half a quart or storing it for a year and then usually throw it away anyway to put a new bottle in. It's wasteful if nothing else.

It looks like this:

This is what a typical 1GR oil pan looks like inside. The 4x4 truck version has a significantly deeper oil pan than the one used on a 2GR in a highlander or Lexus models. It should accommodate higher angles and also more over-fill. The one on the left is a truck version, the right is from a 2GR non truck version.

This one is flipped 4x4 right, car version left:

 

[rmbertoldi]

Very Hot Latte...future name for Toyota-owners band?

 

[TEujunga]

FYI: More oil in the pan will never increase oil pressure. The crank case is not pressurized. The problem only exists if the oil is deep enough to hit the crank shaft. It will cause a hurricane of oil inside the crank case and froth the oil leading to less oil pressure. The pump is designed for non-compressible oil, it will then displace far less than enough aerated oil and pressure will go down. You're dash will light up. It will also create a lot of heat internally as the crank "blends" the oil. Typically overheating is also an indicator. The same way a blendtec can make hot soup. You're oil will be a very hot latte. For whatever reason people seem to do this a lot more often in motorcycles and small engines. What I don't understand is why the heck any manufacturer would design an engine not to use a standard volume of oil. Either make it 6 quarts or 7. My Honda motorcycle takes 1.5. So I always end up throwing away half a quart or storing it for a year and then usually throw it away anyway to put a new bottle in. It's wasteful if nothing else.

It looks like this:

This is what a typical 1GR oil pan looks like inside. The 4x4 truck version has a significantly deeper oil pan than the one used on a 2GR in a highlander or Lexus models. It should accommodate higher angles and also more over-fill. The one on the left is a truck version, the right is from a 2GR non truck version.

Are you sure those are the photos you meant to attach? They appear to show examples of the "chocolate frappé" that results when oil and coolant mix.

Don't overfill your crankcase by even one molecule of oil, or this could happen to you!!!

And go away with your so-called "facts" and "reason." "Reality" is what I say it is, and my reality is that if the dipstick reading isn't within one micron of the marking, dire and catastrophic engine damage will immediately result!!!

 

[Crusifix]

I agree. That is the sign of a head gasket leak in most cases. Coolant mixing with oil.

 

[Jetboy]

Are you sure those are the photos you meant to attach? They appear to show examples of the "chocolate frappé" that results when oil and coolant mix.

Don't overfill your crankcase by even one molecule of oil, or this could happen to you!!!

And go away with your so-called "facts" and "reason." "Reality" is what I say it is, and my reality is that if the dipstick reading isn't within one micron of the marking, dire and catastrophic engine damage will immediately result!!!

You might be right about the pictures. Those were taken from other threads from people who claim that it was the result of over-fill. I've never personally done it overfilling. I've read a fair amount about it being an issue with race cars where they intentionally overfill to manage the oil slosh problem in corners without a dry sump pan. Apparently the MR2 guys are making some custom oil pans for the 1GR that are dry sump. Those I think you would absolutely not want to over-fill. I have had issues with my old 22r at extreme angles where i'd get a bunch of foam through the PCV and end up with an air filter full of oil. Probably a combination of this and some blow by. The ones I seem to see most are motorcycles.

Oil foaming tests tend to look more like this type of foam:

I think we need to do some destructive testing to find out. Add one quart at at time until something catastrophic happens.

 

[Crusifix]

The problem you will most likely see with an overfill is excess windage, and thus a reduction in performance. Almost all oil has an anti-foaming additive now and will not foam even in severe circumstances.

 

[TEujunga]

You might be right about the pictures. Those were taken from other threads from people who claim that it was the result of over-fill. I've never personally done it overfilling. I've read a fair amount about it being an issue with race cars where they intentionally overfill to manage the oil slosh problem in corners without a dry sump pan. Apparently the MR2 guys are making some custom oil pans for the 1GR that are dry sump. Those I think you would absolutely not want to over-fill. I have had issues with my old 22r at extreme angles where i'd get a bunch of foam through the PCV and end up with an air filter full of oil. Probably a combination of this and some blow by. The ones I seem to see most are motorcycles.

But your caption suggests you meant to show pictures of a "typical 1 GR oil pan." That's not what's depicted, and I for one would actually be interested in seeing what the inside of the oil pan looks like.

 

[Jetboy]

But your caption suggests you meant to show pictures of a "typical 1 GR oil pan." That's not what's depicted, and I for one would actually be interested in seeing what the inside of the oil pan looks like.

I believe those are two GR oil pans. They are a two part pan with a metal pan on the lower part, but the aluminum pan is also part of the oil pan. Toyota calls it "upper pan" Specifically that is Toyota part number 12101-31071 for the 1st gen 1GR.

The current model upper pan has a baffle in it. So it looks like this

And I believe this is the same pan without the baffle.

Visually the two are nearly identical other than casing area on the dual VVTI 1GR where the high pressure oil filter assembly is attached on the front. This is one of many reasons I am confused by Toyota calling our 1GR the same engine code as the old 1GR. The two are similar of course, they share the same displacement and bore spacing - but otherwise have almost zero part interchange. The only part interchange I know of is that they share the same crank bearings.

The lower pan that you see underneath is this part:

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

The problem you will most likely see with an overfill is excess windage, and thus a reduction in performance. Almost all oil has an anti-foaming additive now and will not foam even in severe circumstances.

"Overfilling engine oil can raise the level of oil in the pan to the point where the crankshaft starts to make significant contact with the reservoir. Since it moves so fast, it can turn the oil from a liquid into a froth that the pump is no longer able to siphon and distribute. At that point, the engine can starve from lubricant to the degree that serious damage is often the end result."

Overfilling Engine Oil: What to Do

 

[nb rob]

I read a great tip on this forum: Take the dipstick out and let it sit for 5-10 min. Then insert and test the level. I get a nice clean line.

this was the best tidbit I've gotten from this site in a long time too. It actually works like a charm. Prior to that it was one big guessing game for me.

 

[Hans Moleman]

I'm due for my 1st oil change soon. I'm still on the fence if I should let the dealer do it or not. It's free under Toyotacare but is it worth it for them to damage or dirty up my car?

I've always done my own oil changes on all of my other cars because I don't trust lube techs to it right.

 

[Crusifix]

"Overfilling engine oil can raise the level of oil in the pan to the point where the crankshaft starts to make significant contact with the reservoir. Since it moves so fast, it can turn the oil from a liquid into a froth that the pump is no longer able to siphon and distribute. At that point, the engine can starve from lubricant to the degree that serious damage is often the end result."

Overfilling Engine Oil: What to Do

Yes. That is called windage.

 

[jrandom]

I'm due for my 1st oil change soon. I'm still on the fence if I should let the dealer do it or not. It's free under Toyotacare but is it worth it for them to damage or dirty up my car?

I've always done my own oil changes on all of my other cars because I don't trust lube techs to it right.

Instead of retyping what I just wrote:

Well two things:

First, if you plan to keep the truck for ~10 years, and appreciate things done right, do everything yourself. No one cares more about your stuff than you do (with the exception of your kids, if you have any )

Second, get a Fumoto drain valve.

I'll tell you one thing I know for a fact (2 different dealers before fed up), in my particular case, it has cost me more to fix sh!t they broke or screwed up while "fixing" that if I would have just done it myself. So fed up with the kiss your @ss niceness and doing a 1/4 @ss job.

Give your truck the best care when it is new it will last you far further into the future.

 

[aroslv]

Same experience as another poster, that is what mine looks like after 6.5 quarts. I have done 4 oil changes on it now.

 

[Ghostrider]

My dealer story happened to my Accord. Took it in since I was moving and oil change stuff was packed. First try is half quart high. I point it out and they take it back. Comes back 1 1/2 quarts high. Genius under the car only knows that accord takes 4.5 quarts and never changes - even when he doesn't remove filter. Third try finally gets it right. The real scary part is they never seem to bother with looking at the dipstick or would have noticed.