Toyota left a tool under the hood...

[mikebontoft]

If it had caused damage, they would be liable. ever heard of a rag left in an oil pan? that's still a tool.

People make mistakes. Sucks when it happens, but that's life.

Some people are *******s, others are understanding . Pick which one you wanna be.

I choose to be an ass. It has the fringe benefits of an ******* but without all the ****.

 

[Dawg4Runner]

Why stop there? why not hire a lawyer and try to get the tech on the hook for criminal negligence. Try to get a pay day out of this simple simple mistake.

Maybe you can respond with a post that is more in the realm of reality.

The OP stated that he notified the dealer and they were more or less indifferent to the fact that they left a tool in his engine compartment. Not only that but they expected him to take time out of his schedule, go out of his way and return it to their shop on his dime. I bet if the OP had been treated differently during his contact with the dealership that we wouldn't even be talking about this now. Obviously this is a failure on the part of the person who answered the phone but they represent the dealership so the dealership takes the hit. It's called customer service, they're there to serve him when he's paid for it, not the other way around. They exist only because of the customer. Anything else and it will be the tail wagging the dog.

I stand by my suggestion to the OP:
"If they want it, they can respond at a time and place of your choosing to pick it up." That seems very reasonable. Or do you disagree?

It's obvious that our standards and expectations of workmanship and customer service are different, and that's ok. It was, as you stated, "a simple simple mistake" with no apparent damage done. No harm no foul right? Over 30 years ago I got certified as an Airframe & Powerplant Technician as a hobby. Simple mistakes like leaving tools inside aircraft cowling were not tolerated. If a mechanic left a tool, part or even a bolt on the tarmac where it can be ingested by an aircraft, I can assure you that the results won't be "simple."

Looking forward to your response of, "why stop there? Lets call out the RCMP and start a criminal investigation!":lmao:

 

[monkeyskeeper]

take the high road and return the tool. nothing worse than losing anything with a snap-on logo, that comes out of my pocket, not the bosses. and as a paying customer the service dept should offer you something for the money you spent, only to be concerned.

 

[mikebontoft]

It's pretty simple. the guy you called is a ****. He doesn't care. The tech that lost his tool has no idea where it is or you'd have a message from him.

Trying to go at the dealer as some have suggested isn't gonna work. they don't care, they just want your money.

"replaced the axle boot because the cv boots were worn" for $1800... we can't judge accurately on that cause who knows what the hell that is... no offense intended.

I hate people that say "you could have done it yourself for $30..." ok maybe I don't hate the person, just the mindset. MAYBE not everyone has the time, the skill, the confidence, the patience etc to do the job on their own. I don't know what your job is (whoever this applies too), but how would you like it if you were told anyone could do it for a fraction of the cost?

 

[97BlackAckCL]

Nothing says sloppy work like leaving your tools in the customers car.

^This

 

[aha2988]

"replaced the axle boot because the cv boots were worn" for $1800... we can't judge accurately on that cause who knows what the hell that is... no offense intended.

I hate people that say "you could have done it yourself for $30..." ok maybe I don't hate the person, just the mindset. MAYBE not everyone has the time, the skill, the confidence, the patience etc to do the job on their own. I don't know what your job is (whoever this applies too), but how would you like it if you were told anyone could do it for a fraction of the cost?

well you have the ability to learn what a CV boot is and how its not that expensive. Let me google that for you

People Like me that say things such as "you could have done it yourself for $30) are only trying to help fellow members and allow them to understand that they do have the opportunity to save some money and learn to repair something on there own at the same time.

If you don't have a shop or space to work and tools to work with, you have the ability to make a friend or meet someone who has that ability. I've had a few members talk to me about mechanical repairs and or modifications to there trucks and I was more than happy to provide links to the parts at there cheapest as well as bring there truck in to my shop and save them hundreds of dollars. If your comfortable having other people you don't know work on your truck and are happy handing them gobs of money to do the work for you then by all means have at it. However Don't complain if/when you get ripped off.

Generally speaking there's always a cheaper way to accomplish the same goal. specially with my job there's always a new employee with base pay ready to do the same job as me for a fraction of the cost. I stay employed by continuing to preform my abilities faster, more efficient, as well as continuously adding value to my work. Its all about perspective..

 

[TRDCal]

It was, as you stated, "a simple simple mistake" with no apparent damage done. No harm no foul right? Over 30 years ago I got certified as an Airframe & Powerplant Technician as a hobby. Simple mistakes like leaving tools inside aircraft cowling were not tolerated. If a mechanic left a tool, part or even a bolt on the tarmac where it can be ingested by an aircraft, I can assure you that the results won't be "simple."

I'm currently working as an aircraft technician and while I agree with the importance of FOD prevention and not leaving tools behinds. A 4runner is not an airplane and a forgotten tool isn't going to kill 300 people.

No need to make a mountain out of a mole hill. I'm sure it was an honest mistake and the most effective way for that tech to "learn his lesson" is for the issue to be brought to his attention. If you don't say anything he might never realize he forgot anything and may not learn the importance of inventorying his tools after a job. If you confront him and he's a little ******* about the subject then keep it but if he's genuinely sorry then I'd return it, it's good karma.

Having said that, I wouldn't make a special trip, I'd just leave the tool in my truck and the next time I went in for maintenance or happen to pass by the dealership, no need to make a special trip or expense claim the gas

 

[Red]

Maybe you can respond with a post that is more in the realm of reality.

The OP stated that he notified the dealer and they were more or less indifferent to the fact that they left a tool in his engine compartment. Not only that but they expected him to take time out of his schedule, go out of his way and return it to their shop on his dime. I bet if the OP had been treated differently during his contact with the dealership that we wouldn't even be talking about this now. Obviously this is a failure on the part of the person who answered the phone but they represent the dealership so the dealership takes the hit. It's called customer service, they're there to serve him when he's paid for it, not the other way around. They exist only because of the customer. Anything else and it will be the tail wagging the dog.

I stand by my suggestion to the OP:
"If they want it, they can respond at a time and place of your choosing to pick it up." That seems very reasonable. Or do you disagree?

It's obvious that our standards and expectations of workmanship and customer service are different, and that's ok. It was, as you stated, "a simple simple mistake" with no apparent damage done. No harm no foul right? Over 30 years ago I got certified as an Airframe & Powerplant Technician as a hobby. Simple mistakes like leaving tools inside aircraft cowling were not tolerated. If a mechanic left a tool, part or even a bolt on the tarmac where it can be ingested by an aircraft, I can assure you that the results won't be "simple."

Looking forward to your response of, "why stop there? Lets call out the RCMP and start a criminal investigation!":lmao:

Why wait for an investigation? let's all get our pitchforks and torches and string this guy up, yeeehaw!

Not sure you can compare a wrench under the hood of a car with a tool left on a runway at at airport but since we're all being completely unrealistic, why not.

Like others have said, you can be a **** in a situation like this, or you can be a decent person. There is nothing to argue about.

and yes I agree that he shouldnt go out of his way to return it, but I would still return it at some point by whatever means is convenient.

 

[mikebontoft]

Thanks aha2988. I think my rant was misplaced in your direction. I had a bit of an argument with my parents yesterday before posting. oops.

I like to help people with doing their own stuff, on forums anyway. I can't believe the cost I saw in the OP for some things. My parents refuse to allow me to do anything to their car "because it's under warranty" meaning that air filter I could have done for them was probably $60. My point being some people are stubborn and don't want to deal with something as simple as that.

And don't worry, I know what a CV boot is. I have a whole shop to do any kind of work in. I don't rip anyone off either... proof is with the customers.

 

[Dawg4Runner]

It's obvious that our standards and expectations of workmanship and customer service are different, and that's ok.

A 4runner is not an airplane and a forgotten tool isn't going to kill 300 people.

Where did I compare a 4Runner to an airplane. I was comparing my standards and expectations of workmanship and customer service to Red's. My statement regarding thoroughness as an A&P Tech was in reference to workmanship and attention to detail. There was no mention of 4runner. You're the one who injected the 4runner in there, not me. But since you decided to weigh in, it seems that your position, as it appears from your post is that it's ok to have lower quality of work on a 4runner since "a forgotten tool isn't going to kill 300 people." IMO, being thorough applies to any skilled profession not just mechanics.

Why wait for an investigation? let's all get our pitchforks and torches and string this guy up, yeeehaw!

LMAO! As expected :lmao:

Not sure you can compare a wrench under the hood of a car with a tool left on a runway at at airport but since we're all being completely unrealistic, why not.

I never compared the two. My comparison is that my standards and expectations of workmanship and customer service are different from yours (quoted above if you care to read it again). I believe that care and attention to detail should be the same regardless of what is being serviced. To minimize it because it isn't going to cause 300 deaths is up to you. I view any damage or injury due to a careless mistake as unacceptable. But that's just me. You don't have to agree with me and obviously you don't. That's ok.

Like others have said, you can be a **** in a situation like this, or you can be a decent person.

The OP was trying to be a decent person by calling them up and telling them what he found. I would have done the same thing whether it was a screwdriver or an impact wrench. But met with the response that he got I would have just told them "have the mechanic call me and set up a time when he can come pick it up." They should have apologized and kissed his @ss but they chose not to. Telling a customer to "bring it back" without an apology, thank you or something for his troubles is poor business, plain and simple.

and yes I agree that he shouldnt go out of his way to return it, but I would still return it at some point by whatever means is convenient.

Agreed :iagree:

 

[mikebontoft]

I don't think the whole idea of plane vs 4runner was the point... it was more the comparison of consequences of leaving a tool in each.

I imagine you need to make a log of every tool you touch, correct? It's a smart practice (absolutely necessary in your line of work) but not required for us. We just better check that every got put back where it should be.

 

[NJshadow93]

So the techs buy their own tools for work? Or does the dealer supply them but hold the techs responsible if they get lost? Just asking, this is news to me.

 

[mikebontoft]

Techs have to fully supply their own tools. They are their own personal tools. It sucks to lose your own tools. But it happens.

There are some things that the dealership will own (special service tools SSTs) that may be used by everyone. There's also some equipment that the manufacturer requires the dealer to purchase.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

So the techs buy their own tools for work? Or does the dealer supply them but hold the techs responsible if they get lost? Just asking, this is news to me.

Techs have to fully supply their own tools. They are their own personal tools. It sucks to lose your own tools. But it happens.

There are some things that the dealership will own (special service tools SSTs) that may be used by everyone. There's also some equipment that the manufacturer requires the dealer to purchase.

The large majority of Dealers & Independant Shops require the technicians to provide their own tools. Dealers will often supply factory SST (Special Service Tools) and diagnostic equipment such as Factory Scantools and accounts with AllData, ect.

There is a dealer in our area that actually provides the tools to the technicians and they are responsible for losses and/or damage. My friend also worked for EBMUD (East Bay Municipal Utilities District) and they provide all their fleet technicians with all their tools.

 

[2big4arunner]

I am gonna chime in on this by generalizing a little. And I dont care who is right or wrong but this is what my opinion is.

Taking the tool - I wouldn't lower my morals of keeping something that isn't mine. Return it, do a good deed or ask if someone (mechanic) could meet up with me to pick it up if I wasn't heading in that direction.

Cost of the work done - Hey, that is a lot of money to spend on those jobs and I would ask them why it is so much money before forking it out. I would then phone another Toyota dealership with the quote and ask them if its normal and correct. I have seen a lot of mechanics do what my boss called hour stacking and its a horrible way to gouge the customer. Let me explain what I mean by this.

In the books they do a breakdown of how long it takes to do each job and that is what they charge the customer. I will make an example with rounded full numbers to make it easier to explain.
We are going to do a brake service on your 4runner. While inspecting the brakes we found that the calipers need replacement. In the book the calipers take 2 hours to replace, the brake rotors take 1 hour, and a half hour for adjustment (disc e-brake adjustment)
What you see in this is 3.5 hours charged to the customer even though when you pull the calipers the rotors will pull off and the adjustment can be made in a couple minutes. They should have charged the 2 hours and add maybe another 20 minutes for the adjustment BUT they dont make money like this. I hope this helps with how SOME shops charge so much more then others. Sometimes honesty is the easiest way to get clientele to return.

In the OP's case regarding the boots they would charge you for the full axle replacement even though the boots were all that was wrong and they would try and add jobs that include work they are doing already. Toyota only parts which we know are way more expensive but always suggested as they normally fit better and last longer. (BTW. 43430-60060 - OEM Toyota SHAFT ASSY, FR DRIVE)
I am betting that both front axles were replaced and not just the boots.

I live in BC and my local parts/service is 50/50 but the one in the next town over is WAY better. I do all the work myself so I am lucky that I Dont have to pay a shop labor cost ontop of my expensive parts. If you need a second opinion about any invoices feel free to copy them in and let us see the quotes.

 

[bluemarlin04]

Where did I compare a 4Runner to an airplane. I was comparing my standards and expectations of workmanship and customer service to Red's. My statement regarding thoroughness as an A&P Tech was in reference to workmanship and attention to detail. There was no mention of 4runner. You're the one who injected the 4runner in there, not me. But since you decided to weigh in, it seems that your position, as it appears from your post is that it's ok to have lower quality of work on a 4runner since "a forgotten tool isn't going to kill 300 people." IMO, being thorough applies to any skilled profession not just mechanics.

LMAO! As expected :lmao:



I never compared the two. My comparison is that my standards and expectations of workmanship and customer service are different from yours (quoted above if you care to read it again). I believe that care and attention to detail should be the same regardless of what is being serviced. To minimize it because it isn't going to cause 300 deaths is up to you. I view any damage or injury due to a careless mistake as unacceptable. But that's just me. You don't have to agree with me and obviously you don't. That's ok.



The OP was trying to be a decent person by calling them up and telling them what he found. I would have done the same thing whether it was a screwdriver or an impact wrench. But met with the response that he got I would have just told them "have the mechanic call me and set up a time when he can come pick it up." They should have apologized and kissed his @ss but they chose not to. Telling a customer to "bring it back" without an apology, thank you or something for his troubles is poor business, plain and simple.


Agreed :iagree:

I'm going assume you've never made a mistake in your entire working life. Is that correct?

Quit making a mound out of a mole hill. There's a huge difference in workmanship for an aircraft and a 30K 4runner. The tech made a simple mistake.

And if you think aircraft techs don't screw up like this, you obviously don't have much experience working on them. They do, but there is procedures in place to catch the tool before take off so something extreme doesn't happen.

 

[Red]

Quality of craftsmenship and attention to detail should be equally important to both aircraft mechanics and auto mechanics. The difference is, one has much higher consequences for mistakes and one doesnt so there is no reason to make such a big deal over it in this case.

I've got my pitchfork and torch out though if anyone is interested, the apocalypse is a couple days away so why not? YOLO!

 

[Sungod]

There appears to be several lost tools on this thread.

 

[mikebontoft]

There appears to be several lost tools on this thread.

bahaha... where's the like button? Must have left it under the hood.

 

[Dawg4Runner]

and yes I agree that he shouldnt go out of his way to return it, but I would still return it at some point by whatever means is convenient.

Quality of craftsmenship and attention to detail should be equally important to both aircraft mechanics and auto mechanics.

I've got my pitchfork and torch out though if anyone is interested, the apocalypse is a couple days away so why not? YOLO!

Agreed on both points. And that is what I simply stated to begin with. Not sure of where the lawyers, pitchforks, torches and apocalypse have any relevance in this discussion but thanks for the laughs.:thanks:

Have a Merry Christmas!eace: