Toyota Suspension Gurus: Help, Please...

[Flesh Eater]

I’m sorry to be such a nuisance about this, but I’m starting to question if I installed the right coil overs. Meaning, I think the 4WD shop might have given me coilovers intended for a bigger build. Don’t know.

I’m down to 3 weeks and this 4Runner has to drive a long way, wheel a whole week, and make it back. I’m stressing here on decisions.

Before the Icon Stage 1 kit, my hub to fender measurement was 18 3/16”. I’m at 23 3/8” now.

This is my caster from the first alignment: front left: 0.74 degrees and front right: 0.61 degrees.

I’m pretty sure this will handle like garbage on the interstate.

My plan of action is to drop the front of this 4Runner 1”. Then have it aligned again. But do you guys think 1” is enough? Should I drop it 1.5”? I have no winch/winch bumper up front. All the weight will be in the rear all the time.

Thoughts?

I need to get this to at least 1-1.5 degrees of caster. I don’t have time to order anything special, like JBA upper arms. Lowering seems to be the best bet. It should have a rake anyways.

 

[Syr4RinNC]

Yea that doesn’t sound right to me. At max you should be getting 3.5 inches of lift. Why do you have do much more- either it wasn’t installed correctly or something else is up

Usually you can get away with 2 inches of lift or so with stock uca, at 3 or more you’re really pushing it and I imagine you’d really struggle to maintain good caster and camber of the wheels

The truck will take a few days / 100 miles to “settle”

Any pics of the set up? How do the cv axles look?

 

[Flesh Eater]

Yea that doesn’t sound right to me. At max you should be getting 3.5 inches of lift. Why do you have do much more- either it wasn’t installed correctly or something else is up

Usually you can get away with 2 inches of lift or so with stock uca, at 3 or more you’re really pushing it and I imagine you’d really struggle to maintain good caster and camber of the wheels

The truck will take a few days / 100 miles to “settle”

Any pics of the set up? How do the cv axles look?

I personally installed this and literally rebuilt the whole front end. So if I need to stay around 2” I need to drop the front 1.5”. I am 100% fine with dropping this. The angles are extreme and I’m running 265/75R17’s. No need for max lift.

I bombed this thing down some dirt roads and flexed it out on the boulders in my yard to quickly settle it. It’s not dropping any at all.

Not sure how to get pics on here as I don’t do other hosting sites. I don’t see a mobile upload option.

 

[Flesh Eater]

My gut is telling me to drop this front end ASAP. The guys at the 4WD shop excitedly asked me how it handled after the ICON install and I said like absolute shit.

My stock set up was so much better with 116k on it and blown rear shocks.

 

[Syr4RinNC]

What exactly is your goal with the lift? More clearance? I’d probably shoot for 2 inches of lift unless you’re planning bigger tires soon. That’s about aggressive as I’d get if you’re trying to get everything buttoned up and working quickly.

I’m still confused how you got so much lift out of the front coil overs when they say 3.5 inches Max

Did you mean 255/75/17 tires? Otherwise where did you find 265 75 17 (a size I wish was made)

 

[Syr4RinNC]

Oh when you post if you click the attach paper clip you should be able to upload pics from your phone or computer

 

[Flesh Eater]

What exactly is your goal with the lift? More clearance? I’d probably shoot for 2 inches of lift unless you’re planning bigger tires soon. That’s about aggressive as I’d get if you’re trying to get everything buttoned up and working quickly.

I’m still confused how you got so much lift out of the front coil overs when they say 3.5 inches Max

Did you mean 255/75/17 tires? Otherwise where did you find 265 75 17 (a size I wish was made)

All I wanted was 2”. I wanted a mild lift for a little more clearance when running the Telluride/Ouray/Silverton area. Nothing extreme.

Also confused about the lift man.

Maybe they’re 265/70R17’s. I maintain 4 vehicles and two of them are now modified. Hard to remember everything.

What would you like a pic of? Axle angle?

 

[Flesh Eater]

This was before I did all new control arms.

 

[Flesh Eater]

Another pic before doing the control arms

 

[Flesh Eater]

CV’s don’t look terrible.

 

[Flesh Eater]

About 1 1/4” showing.

 

[Flesh Eater]

Went out and measured the rear. It came out to an exact 2” lift.

Tomorrow I’m going to do my best to set the camber to zero on the jack stands. I’ll drop it, drive it around and see if it comes down at all. I’m going to base my factory stock height at 19” (quick research says that’s what some had, mine might have sagged). For an even 2” lift I need my front around 21” or 21.5” would be acceptable.

I highly doubt this is going to drop a 1/4” on each side with perfect camber. I set it pretty close before I buttoned everything up. What a nightmare this front end is turning into.

 

[Flesh Eater]

Wife just reminded me we’re 2.5 weeks out.

These coilovers are going to 0” of lift (factory measurement around 19” from center of hub) and I’m putting the rear stock coils back in. No time to dick with this anymore.

Definitely not happy with this. Pretty sure I’m the first customer the local 4WD didn’t have slobbering all over these coilovers. Apparently people just dig their stuff handling like garbage. I don’t know.

 

[montijo505]

Did you ever lower the front any to see if it made a difference? That’s the whole purpose of coil overs is to be able to adjust the height. Also with that old suspension it was def sagging that’s why you netted so much lift.


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[Flesh Eater]

Did you ever lower the front any to see if it made a difference? That’s the whole purpose of coil overs is to be able to adjust the height. Also with that old suspension it was def sagging that’s why you netted so much lift.


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Thing is I have to get it aligned before that, drop it, then align it again. If the shops can get me in QUICKLY I can see the results. Then if the caster doesn’t improve enough I have to drop it completely and align it again.

See the predicament?

Really worried about death wobble with this trash caster.

 

[MAST4R]

It is a predicament indeed.

Bear in mind that Icon IFP rear shocks have a very long body. On 1" rear lift, they rubbed on the emergency brake cables (through the cover and to the steel). On the positive side, they gave me 1" extra travel on 1" lift spring (not true of other rear shocks). That extra travel was most welcome on Black Bear Pass last year. This year I had my 8100 series Bilstein for the trip. They have even more travel on the same spring plus many other virtues.

Stay safe in the San Juans. We just came back. Mineral Creek is the rockiest trail (P gulch aside, the one that I have not driven), Black Bear is the most dangerous, Imogene is easier than both but is a real 4x4 drive with some tippy spots and some rocks and Yankee Boy is easier than Imogene and is not exposed. The trails with extended very narrow sections are Black Bear, Imogene, Porphyry Gulch, Kendal Mountain, Red Mountain 3, McMillan Peak (also lots of backing up switchbacks on this one). Several other trails have shorter exposed and narrow sections, of course.

Suspension wise, for San Juans, I set my rear shocks at near max soft compression and above average rebound to maximize stability. I cannot adjust the front but I would do the same there if I could.

I surely would rather have less lift and more wheel travel for the San Juans than big lift with less travel. But above all, I would want a rig that is 100% and that will give me no surprises. So I fully agree with your efforts to get the rig to a predictable and drivable, safer state.

Hope you have a great and safe vacation regardless of these annoying troubles!

 

[Flesh Eater]

It is a predicament indeed.

Bear in mind that Icon IFP rear shocks have a very long body. On 1" rear lift, they rubbed on the emergency brake cables (through the cover and to the steel). On the positive side, they gave me 1" extra travel on 1" lift spring (not true of other rear shocks). That extra travel was most welcome on Black Bear Pass last year. This year I had my 8100 series Bilstein for the trip. They have even more travel on the same spring plus many other virtues.

Stay safe in the San Juans. We just came back. Mineral Creek is the rockiest trail (P gulch aside, the one that I have not driven), Black Bear is the most dangerous, Imogene is easier than both but is a real 4x4 drive with some tippy spots and some rocks and Yankee Boy is easier than Imogene and is not exposed. The trails with extended very narrow sections are Black Bear, Imogene, Porphyry Gulch, Kendal Mountain, Red Mountain 3, McMillan Peak (also lots of backing up switchbacks on this one). Several other trails have shorter exposed and narrow sections, of course.

Suspension wise, for San Juans, I set my rear shocks at near max soft compression and above average rebound to maximize stability. I cannot adjust the front but I would do the same there if I could.

I surely would rather have less lift and more wheel travel for the San Juans than big lift with less travel. But above all, I would want a rig that is 100% and that will give me no surprises. So I fully agree with your efforts to get the rig to a predictable and drivable, safer state.

Hope you have a great and safe vacation regardless of these annoying troubles!

Thanks for the info. We will NOT be doing Black Bear pass and I’m still on the fence with Imogene. Once I get comfortable out there I will decide on Imogene.

I might see if the local alignment shop will work with me and let me get a twofer deal. I need the alignment first to settle my camber and toe issue and get a truer measurement. After that I need to drop the suspension to 21” or 21.5” measurement, then re-align it.

I really don’t want to go out there with stock height, but I also don’t want my Runner handling like pure garbage for 3,000 miles of non-stop interstate driving.

Ugh. This was supposed to be simple. Screw Murphy and his law.

 

[MAST4R]

Thanks for the info. We will NOT be doing Black Bear pass and I’m still on the fence with Imogene. Once I get comfortable out there I will decide on Imogene.

I might see if the local alignment shop will work with me and let me get a twofer deal. I need the alignment first to settle my camber and toe issue and get a truer measurement. After that I need to drop the suspension to 21” or 21.5” measurement, then re-align it.

I really don’t want to go out there with stock height, but I also don’t want my Runner handling like pure garbage for 3,000 miles of non-stop interstate driving.

Ugh. This was supposed to be simple. Screw Murphy and his law.

On the one hand, Imogene's first mile from Ouray, rated difficult by Wells, is straightforward IMO as is the final climb to the top (from Ouray), also rated difficult.

On the other hand, there are tippy spots in the middle between those two segments and before you get above tree line. The entire trail requires max attention but be especially careful there, as the 4R that followed us (random person) had some minor trouble with 2. On one, they were not coming so I went to spot them through. On another, I cringed as they hit the brakes right in the middle of the tippy spot. It is not that bad of a spot so nothing happened but that kind of thing may result in trouble if the suspension does something unexpected (or is not tuned well).

The Telluride side is very narrow but smoother. It is very narrow for very long so if driving it towards Telluride, watch from far away for traffic to avoid having to back up for long distances.

Mineral Creek has two spots that I found more tippy than anything on Imogene. Plus it combines rocks with narrow sections whereas on Imogene the rocky sections are not that narrow while the narrow sections are not that rocky.

 

[Flesh Eater]

On the one hand, Imogene's first mile from Ouray, rated difficult by Wells, is straightforward IMO as is the final climb to the top (from Ouray), also rated difficult.

On the other hand, there are tippy spots in the middle between those two segments and before you get above tree line. The entire trail requires max attention but be especially careful there, as the 4R that followed us (random person) had some minor trouble with 2. On one, they were not coming so I went to spot them through. On another, I cringed as they hit the brakes right in the middle of the tippy spot. It is not that bad of a spot so nothing happened but that kind of thing may result in trouble if the suspension does something unexpected (or is not tuned well).

The Telluride side is very narrow but smoother. It is very narrow for very long so if driving it towards Telluride, watch from far away for traffic to avoid having to back up for long distances.

Mineral Creek has two spots that I found more tippy than anything on Imogene. Plus it combines rocks with narrow sections whereas on Imogene the rocky sections are not that narrow while the narrow sections are not that rocky.

I had this thing flexed out on some boulders in my back yard. It takes A LOT to tip it.

Kind of like running the SXS on the trails we hit down in WV. Once you get the front wheel off the ground a few times it gets easier. Stopping is NEVER good idea in those situations. Haha!

 

[MAST4R]

I had this thing flexed out on some boulders in my back yard. It takes A LOT to tip it.

Kind of like running the SXS on the trails we hit down in WV. Once you get the front wheel off the ground a few times it gets easier. Stopping is NEVER good idea in those situations. Haha!

Yeah, it would be great to have a solid grasp of what you can and cannot take.

I was a bit worried that with last-minute suspension changes, surprises may happen.