I would definitely be talking to corporate. Who says the guy didn't start the engine while he was finishing up his paperwork. Could have been anywhere from 5 minutes or more of running the engine. I ran a turbine at work during commissioning for 30 seconds without the full oil flow and partially wiped the journal bearings. Main lubeoil pump was installed backwards and didn't feed the turbine. The bearings have been damaged.
Toyota Tech forgets to put oil in a 14 T4R for 20k service!
- Thread starter GeneGrit
- Start date
I would rather do my own modifications, oil changes and more to my vehicle, but unfortunately sometimes we can't physically. Things happen, and I would protect yourself. Good example is what happened to me by a traiined professional, Sh@t happens, simple as that.
Protect yourself is all you can do, I personally always go around my vehicle and pull the dip stick and check visually the best I can with the service rep. Yet to personally have any issues, plus I always got documentation for the 'what if cases'...
Just to bring up another question, just how did they "add oil" to it? By starting it and driving it back to the bay? Or did Wilfred actually come to the customer pick up and pour several quarts of oil in there?
deverlow
New member
Whatever happens, don't get pissed and be a d!ck. That makes absolutely nothing better. This sounds like an honest mistake a kid made while learning a trade and he'll keep this lesson with him forever.
Take the free service and be understanding and they'll be much more likely to take care of you later on. Pay it forward, be respectful, step back and take a breather for a second. Your truck being a 2014 means it's well under warranty and you have little to worry about.
Hope everything works out well for you.
Take the free service and be understanding and they'll be much more likely to take care of you later on. Pay it forward, be respectful, step back and take a breather for a second. Your truck being a 2014 means it's well under warranty and you have little to worry about.
Hope everything works out well for you.
shahsmerdis
New member
they got it on camera great.
Sounds like the guy lied to you, he it just needs a little more oil so... no there was no oil. Unless they just handed the car to you from the oil station. They definitely drove the car out the pit/bay, to a temp storage area, then pulled up the car for you. that is at least a minute without oil. I would not be able to live with that car knowing the engine could be compromised. unless they can give you free repairs for life on the engine... You really should get defense fast.
It was honest mistake on the kid yes. so there is no reason to get angry. like everyone said that doesn't help the situation. But just so take anything they say "oh its okay, don't worry about it etc" They are a mechanic, not an engineer to be qualified to say anything in that nature.
At the very least you should be walking away with extended warranty.
Edit: Thought about it more. This is your investment, your 40k on the line here. I dont think anyone in that service dept is qualified to say if its okay or not. If they tell you so, ask them for their credentials. toyota engineer needs to clear your vehicle for proper operation. Not to undermined or doubt people here. we can give you our opinion, but unless someone here knows exactly the safety checks this vehicle has, know the tolerances it can stand without oil, and is a toyota engineer, then please bring it up the food chain with toyota, no reason to be shy about protecting your investment.
edit im pretty sure any court will rule in your favor here if they don't sufficiently provide you with sufficient testing of your vehicle for proper operation.
Sounds like the guy lied to you, he it just needs a little more oil so... no there was no oil. Unless they just handed the car to you from the oil station. They definitely drove the car out the pit/bay, to a temp storage area, then pulled up the car for you. that is at least a minute without oil. I would not be able to live with that car knowing the engine could be compromised. unless they can give you free repairs for life on the engine... You really should get defense fast.
It was honest mistake on the kid yes. so there is no reason to get angry. like everyone said that doesn't help the situation. But just so take anything they say "oh its okay, don't worry about it etc" They are a mechanic, not an engineer to be qualified to say anything in that nature.
At the very least you should be walking away with extended warranty.
Edit: Thought about it more. This is your investment, your 40k on the line here. I dont think anyone in that service dept is qualified to say if its okay or not. If they tell you so, ask them for their credentials. toyota engineer needs to clear your vehicle for proper operation. Not to undermined or doubt people here. we can give you our opinion, but unless someone here knows exactly the safety checks this vehicle has, know the tolerances it can stand without oil, and is a toyota engineer, then please bring it up the food chain with toyota, no reason to be shy about protecting your investment.
edit im pretty sure any court will rule in your favor here if they don't sufficiently provide you with sufficient testing of your vehicle for proper operation.
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If you really want to set them up , go to another Toyota dealer and tell them it was accidentally ran out of oil and now you hear weird sounds , let them listen to the normal 4.0 knocks and ticks. They will find a million things wrong when they think you have to pay and will be very happy to take your money and possibly void you warranty. Then let Toyota fight it out. Your just the innocent customer , let there people fight it out internally.
No one, including a "Toyota Engineer", can say whether abnormal wear occurred in this engine, without disassembling it completely and inspecting all bearing surfaces, and measuring all clearances to see if they are still within tolerance.
DKFTPNYC
New member
I like the way you think lol
This I like.
BumRunner
New member
1. "free repairs for life on the engine"
that is absurd... now a free extended powertrain warranty up to 100k or 125k is certainly what Toyota should...and will give you.
2. thinking that no one in whatever service department that happened in is not qualified is absurd. ive known a couple MDT's for toyota and each dealership usually has one, and they are more than capable of telling you after an inspection if there was any damage done. hate you tell you but this incident wont show its ugly head 100k miles down the road and 8 years later.
3. most big corporations when threatened with a law suit will cut off ties with you until any and all court hearings are completed and hate to tell everyone...but your lawyer isn't as good as the 5 that will be sitting on their side of court. if the dealership or corporate tried to make it right and offered an extended warranty then NO judge would likely rule against them. not a lawyer just using common sense. i did stay at a holiday inn express once
EDIT: I almost forgot.. unless that 4runner appreciated in value once it was driven off the lot....it isnt an investment, its actually the opposite. Not trying to be rude here just giving bad advise to this poor person in getting lawyered up if they dont get a free life time warranty just blows my mind.
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I actually have a similar issue I am trying to find advice from seasoned 4 Runner owners. I don't want to hijack your post, but since I'm new it won't let me post my own!
I have a 2015 4Runner Limited. I bring it in to my local dealership (60 miles away. That is in fact the closest to me!) for my 10,000 mile service. It takes an hour and a half for them to service the vehicle (3:30pm-5:00pm). I leave from there and take my daughter to ice cream. We sit for about 30 minutes and drive home. About 5 min from my house I notice a slight grinding noise so I slow down a little bit and turn the volume down on my radio but don't hear it again. I speed up and I hear it again, so once again I slow down. I get home (7:30pm), shut the vehicle off and immediately I smell burnt oil and black smoke is coming from my rear drivers side tire. I run inside and get my husband who comes out and checks the oil. The dipstick has no oil on it. He thinks (neither of us are mechanics) maybe we need to let it sit since it just ran. He goes out 5 minutes later and still nothing. He climbs under the truck and there is very visible and clear fresh oil splattered all the way to the spare tire. He calls the dealership who first says call back tomorrow. Once he realizes the oil is everywhere he calls back and demands to speak to someone. They push him through to the general manager who assured him they will call him first thing in the morning. 7:30 am we get a call from the service manager who says they're sending a tow truck and a rental. There's a whole lot of BS that happens in between - but the tow the truck to the dealership, we insist on being there when it's inspected. We have documented every person we've spoken to, taken video and photo of the vehicle at our residence and video and photographed the inspection.
The mechanic who changed our oil didn't sit the O-Ring properly. When they took the filter off there were about 6 drips of oil. When they took the pan off (is this right? I've never changed oil) there was enough oil to fill a 16oz water bottle left in my engine (this is what they used to drain it to see if there were any gold flecks?). They did another oil change on the car and tried to convince us to drive it home. We refused.
They offered us an extended warranty on the engine. We already bought the 120,00 bumper to bumper warranty when we purchased it 6 months ago. They offered to replace the engine. The owner, I kid you not, said a vehicle can run with no oil and do no damage to the engine. He knows this because he raced as a child and they would only use about a cup of oil. I drove 60 solid miles. The service tech explained when the truck heated up the O ring exploded and the oil left the engine at that point.
They said a new engine wouldn't show on a report nor would it affect the resale value of my vehicle. They then said they have everything documented so we are covered if we want to drive it home. We said if they wanted to sell our truck with a new engine or even the way it was, that was their discretion but we want a new vehicle with the exact same options, in the condition we brought ours in for an oil change. We don't want it for free, but we don't want to pay a penny more than what we owe on our 4Runner for it. We have zero faith in our engine and any other part connected to it that could be affected immediately or miles down the road.
We have involved Corporate in this, but because it happened on a Saturday it was a slow process to get started and we had an obligation we had to be at in our hometown at 4:00 pm.
The dealership has refused, at this point, to do anything except replace our engine. The technician who preformed the oil change was confronted and asked to stay to see if he can walk them through what went wrong and he clocked out and quit before both us and the truck arrived.
My questions: 1. Will a new engine in fact affect the resale of my brand new vehicle?
2. Has this happened to anyone else and what was the outcome?
I have a 2015 4Runner Limited. I bring it in to my local dealership (60 miles away. That is in fact the closest to me!) for my 10,000 mile service. It takes an hour and a half for them to service the vehicle (3:30pm-5:00pm). I leave from there and take my daughter to ice cream. We sit for about 30 minutes and drive home. About 5 min from my house I notice a slight grinding noise so I slow down a little bit and turn the volume down on my radio but don't hear it again. I speed up and I hear it again, so once again I slow down. I get home (7:30pm), shut the vehicle off and immediately I smell burnt oil and black smoke is coming from my rear drivers side tire. I run inside and get my husband who comes out and checks the oil. The dipstick has no oil on it. He thinks (neither of us are mechanics) maybe we need to let it sit since it just ran. He goes out 5 minutes later and still nothing. He climbs under the truck and there is very visible and clear fresh oil splattered all the way to the spare tire. He calls the dealership who first says call back tomorrow. Once he realizes the oil is everywhere he calls back and demands to speak to someone. They push him through to the general manager who assured him they will call him first thing in the morning. 7:30 am we get a call from the service manager who says they're sending a tow truck and a rental. There's a whole lot of BS that happens in between - but the tow the truck to the dealership, we insist on being there when it's inspected. We have documented every person we've spoken to, taken video and photo of the vehicle at our residence and video and photographed the inspection.
The mechanic who changed our oil didn't sit the O-Ring properly. When they took the filter off there were about 6 drips of oil. When they took the pan off (is this right? I've never changed oil) there was enough oil to fill a 16oz water bottle left in my engine (this is what they used to drain it to see if there were any gold flecks?). They did another oil change on the car and tried to convince us to drive it home. We refused.
They offered us an extended warranty on the engine. We already bought the 120,00 bumper to bumper warranty when we purchased it 6 months ago. They offered to replace the engine. The owner, I kid you not, said a vehicle can run with no oil and do no damage to the engine. He knows this because he raced as a child and they would only use about a cup of oil. I drove 60 solid miles. The service tech explained when the truck heated up the O ring exploded and the oil left the engine at that point.
They said a new engine wouldn't show on a report nor would it affect the resale value of my vehicle. They then said they have everything documented so we are covered if we want to drive it home. We said if they wanted to sell our truck with a new engine or even the way it was, that was their discretion but we want a new vehicle with the exact same options, in the condition we brought ours in for an oil change. We don't want it for free, but we don't want to pay a penny more than what we owe on our 4Runner for it. We have zero faith in our engine and any other part connected to it that could be affected immediately or miles down the road.
We have involved Corporate in this, but because it happened on a Saturday it was a slow process to get started and we had an obligation we had to be at in our hometown at 4:00 pm.
The dealership has refused, at this point, to do anything except replace our engine. The technician who preformed the oil change was confronted and asked to stay to see if he can walk them through what went wrong and he clocked out and quit before both us and the truck arrived.
My questions: 1. Will a new engine in fact affect the resale of my brand new vehicle?
2. Has this happened to anyone else and what was the outcome?
I would take a new engine in a heartbeat. I drive them till I get tired of them, my last truck was 16 years old. I wouldn't be too terribly worried about resale.
The OP should get a new engine as well. Hope it works out for you.
shahsmerdis
New member
Sorry let me clarify.
By lawyer up I meant if they decide to do nothing. I believe I mentioned that key part, I'll reread after I post. Of course he should leave that as a last option. Don't even mention a lawyer, until you see no resolution. Be respectable, and evaluate the options they offer, but know be a push over.. And what i meant by toyota engineer, I meant, maybe somewhere there is a spec that says, this engine can be ran for x amount of time without oil, with no ill effect etc etc. So after inspection if nothing is found, you can give answer with confidence that no damage was done. Maybe this is non existent. if i was in charge of the engine line, I'd make a spec for that. But that is just me...
my whole rant about not being qualified. I meant to say was, no one can say your engine is fine without actually looking. which they didn't seem to do for OP at the time of the first post. so I wouldn't be inclined to take an extended warranty without a full inspect of the car. Not sure about you, but I've heard pretty nasty stories around here on toyota service shops covering their own ass and lying out right to my dad. One case, it may have been a parking brake, the toyota rep shows him the old part to say the work was done. Since he did paid both sides, he said where is the other one. they said it was done and they didn't keep the part. He mentioned okay show me. They said they can't and the work was done. Dad was saying I don't believe you. etc etc etc... they finally backed up and saw the work wasn't done. One case, when my dad refused to pay for something that did not fix his problem, they essentially threatened him by putting two big guys behind him...No he didn't shout or scream, so it wasn't because he was acting up. He paid with his amex. then disputed it and won. So would I trust the toyota shop around here to saying my engine is okay after they forgot to put oil? Heck no. I'd like someone independent to verify it. I'm sure that is not the case in other areas.
In terms of investment. Yeah, I know it loses value, but to the owner, if he has to get another car or if he has to put money in a car at any point because of this, it is a loss of money. Never mind the value of the car.
my intent isn't to give bad advice, just to say, push for the option you want, and don't take the first option they throw at you (unless that is the one you want). Someone needs to clear the car and ensure there is no damage. not just offer you an extended warranty and get you out the door. Your fighting power decreases later on.
I hope this cleared up what I was trying to say.
In any case, OP have you gotten any updates?
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BumRunner
New member
ahh ok, yea he should for sure be pushy as far as making it sure it is/was looked at and be pushy about getting his extended warranty(which i agree he now needs). looking bad sorry about being rude, maybe i should have slept before being salty over the internet :sorry:
shahsmerdis
New member
not at all rude, I think I was a bit unclear, and I wrote my post at night too. so all this is better for OP
There are too many variables to say definitively. Most car owners neglect at least some preventive maintenance, which can lead to an earlier demise. How and where the vehicle is used, can also have an affect on vehicle longevity.
There is/was a member in the 3rd gen section that the last I heard, was around 750k miles, on his all original drivetrain '99. He stated he was a stickler for regular maintenance, and had all his service performed at his Toyota Dealer.
A knowledgeable owner could do their own maintenance, and if the vehicle were used in a similar manner, achieve the same thing.
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