Toyota Tech forgets to put oil in a 14 T4R for 20k service!

[trex9K]

750K sounds like an outlyer even with excellent preventative maintenance.

 

[02SE]

750K sounds like an outlyer even with excellent preventative maintenance.

Maybe, maybe not. And that is really the point.

No one can say definitively, without trying to duplicate his experience.

The engine in his 4Runner, is also a different design than the engine in the 5th gen 4Runner, and may or may not be more reliable.

There are just too many variables.

I'll say this: Take care of your 4Runner, and it should last a long time.

 

[trex9K]

Their must be an average engine lifetime figure out there. Maybe Toyota has one. If the dealer and customer can agree on that number then a warranty deal might be structured around it.

 

[jasonochs25]

If you really want to set them up , go to another Toyota dealer and tell them it was accidentally ran out of oil and now you hear weird sounds , let them listen to the normal 4.0 knocks and ticks. They will find a million things wrong when they think you have to pay and will be very happy to take your money and possibly void you warranty. Then let Toyota fight it out. Your just the innocent customer , let there people fight it out internally.

That actually sounds halfway doable and logical! Because if after all is said and done, that it is determined that the motor is fine, then the 'second opinion' dealership should be questioned on the repairs they state it may need

 

[05Rrunner]

That actually sounds halfway doable and logical! Because if after all is said and done, that it is determined that the motor is fine, then the 'second opinion' dealership should be questioned on the repairs they state it may need

My thinking is it's a No lose situation if you take it to another dealer. If they find no problem great then you have that documented if something was to pop up later , you as a customer did due diligence by reporting it. If they do find something wrong you're of cource covered that way also. Win , Win. .

 

[pjbrownva]

Question I have is, does anyone here have any insight into if any damage would be done to the engine with the truck being driven from the bay to the lot, and me starting it and idling it for a few minutes? Was far less than one mile, probably around 5 minutes, and the RPMS shouldn't have gone far past idling RPM. Engine sounds and drives fine, just like before.

Also should I accept their free service for this f up or should I go to higher management at the dealership or corporate?

Any comments advice are appreciated.

1)
I would pay to have an oil analysis done. I'm not certain that it would show any problems, but if it DOES show a problem, then you have a good reason to pursue a strong remedy, and good data to support your request. My thinking is this, if there were heavy metal wear, it's likely to show up in the oil that's in your engine now. An analysis might detect that.

2)
I would have the full codes pulled from the OBD-II port. It may show a history of codes, and time since the last code... what I mean, is you might be able to tell when the engine detected low oil, and how long the engine was run before the situation was corrected. I'm not a mechanic, so I could be off on this one.
I do know that there is more info stored than meets the eye. I WOULDN'T have this done at the dealership, simply because I wouldn't trust them to be truthful.

3)
I would determine my goal with the truck... probably based on past habits.
Do you intend to keep the truck for 15 years and see if you can get 300K miles out of it?
Are you the kind of person who wants and gets a new car every five years or so?

Your intentions should determine your actions. If you don't intend to keep the truck "forever", then have the oil tested, if you don't see signs of wear, push for an extended Toyota factory warranty, and move on.

If your intentions were to keep the truck for a very long time, then do some home work on line (try true car, try consumer reports, look for other sources... sometimes credit unions have the NADA guide and will let members see it. Ask at a local used lot if they will let you look up your truck in the NADA guide. Either be straight with them, or tell them a fib... it's your call)...

But the point is, try to get a handle on the approximate retail for your truck used. (well... your truck WITHOUT the no oil situation), and also try to get data on the wholesale cost of the truck... if you can.

Depending on what you find, this could position you to ask for a new truck, and have the dealer buy back the old one, and have you pay a small fee, or maybe no fee for the exchange. The idea is to present it to the dealer like this:

1) I would like to keep my 4Runner for many, many years -- far beyond the standard warranty. I bought it new because of it's reputation for QDR (that Toyota jargon for Quality, Dependability & Reliability).

2) I have reason to questions it's long term reliability because it was run without oil.

3) I'm looking for a fair solution that everyone can live with.

4) Based, on that, I propose the following:



a) I want to work with you to purchase a replacement truck of my choice from the Mannheim auction and pay your direct cost. No markup.
(This is the main used car clearing house on the East Coast... and the auctions are available to dealers online).

b) You buy my truck back for $XX,XXX dollars.
That's close to the full retail asking price based on these ads for similar trucks...
(and show three or four ads from your area. Do a search on cars.com for example).

Or... another option could be...

I don't trust this car anymore. I would like to work with you to select
a suitable replacement that you buy for me at auction.

Buy me out of my truck for what I owe, and I'll buy the auction truck from
you for a TOTAL OUT THE DOOR cost of what I owe (Tax, tags, fees, included).

Thus, you are swapping your truck for a similar one that (to the best of your knowledge) hasn't been run without oil.

Those are my thoughts.


Regarding those who say to sue...

In a lawsuit, in general you are entitled to "be made whole". Thus, you need to show damages, and then you can be compensated for those damages.
I don't believe that, in general, your situation would qualify for punitive damages or other types of compensation. Realistically, the dealer meant to service your truck. They screwed up. You noticed. They put oil back in it. To the extent that you were damaged, they would have to "make you whole", but they wouldn't be required to pay your legal bill, and the burden would be on you to prove the economic impact of your damages, if any. That's a tough road to travel.

So suing isn't the best bet... it's time consuming, frustrating, costly, and you may not end up with an outcome that you like.

That's my $0.02.

Sorry for the bad experience.

 

[jasonochs25]

If the dealer buys back the 4runner, they are most likely going to sell it on their lot with a warranty long enough to be in the clear if there IS damage or...auction it off and let someone else deal with it.

That being said, I dont see you having a problem for quite some time, but nobody can say when that time will be...20k, 50k, even 100k from now? My 97 has 225k on it, but I really doubt it would make half that if it had been through what yours has.

As stated before...good luck with everything and truly sorry this has happened, but " to err is human"

 

[Lester Lugnut]

A few yrs. ago one of my neighbors ran a 4 cyl. Camry w/o oil for about 3 mins during an oil change. Engine was idling - never pushed beyond that rpm.

Guess he mistakenly did what you read about in these car forums.

He's since put about 15K on the engine and the car runs good. No oil consumption/etc.

As stated in a previous comment - the only way to know what damage has been done is to tear down the engine.