Toyota Techs please try to diagnose.

[4RunnERD]

I know have already posted two other times about this, but the more time passes and the more variables change I really don't think it is piston slap. WI Finally broke 80 degrees today and not only did the 4Runner make a noise like a washing machine on spin cycle, but the Maintenance light flashed at me three or four times before going off. Only owned for a few months, but here is what I know, all fluid levels that can easily be checked are fine, Oil is barely a thousand miles old and still appears clean. The supposed piston slap that used to come and go now happens religously every moring even in 80 plus degree weather. Starts out as a loud non-metallic knonking that last longer than most piston slap cases and then slowly turns into a dronning noise. Maybe the Maintenance light flashing is something new and completely unrelated or maybe this noise/slash problem finally got loud enough to warrant the computrer to say WTF like have been the last couple months.

 

[TechWrench]

I know have already posted two other times about this, but the more time passes and the more variables change I really don't think it is piston slap. WI Finally broke 80 degrees today and not only did the 4Runner make a noise like a washing machine on spin cycle, but the Maintenance light flashed at me three or four times before going off. Only owned for a few months, but here is what I know, all fluid levels that can easily be checked are fine, Oil is barely a thousand miles old and still appears clean. The supposed piston slap that used to come and go now happens religously every moring even in 80 plus degree weather. Starts out as a loud non-metallic knonking that last longer than most piston slap cases and then slowly turns into a dronning noise. Maybe the Maintenance light flashing is something new and completely unrelated or maybe this noise/slash problem finally got loud enough to warrant the computrer to say WTF like have been the last couple months.

The maintenance light has nothing to do with the engine noise you are hearing. It is only to remind you when scheduled maintenance (oil change) is due, and it is triggered by miles driven since it was last reset. If you recently had the oil changed, the maintenance light function wasn't reset at that time. Look in your owners manual, or do a search here on the maintenance light (numerous threads on this subject) to find the procedure to reset the light.

As for the engine noise, not sure. It is hard to diagnose without actually hearing the noise. Without more info, it will be hard to give you an accurate diagnosis.

 

[4RunnERD]

Thanks. Yeah I figured out the Maintenance light thing. I think the dealer I bought it from, a Ford delear, did the mandatory oil change when they took it in on trade even though it probably wasn't needed timeline wise yet from when the previous owner last reset it. There are only a 1,000 miles on it since the oil change so the light probably wasn't on and probably not reset at the Ford dealer.

In terms of noise what other specifics do you need to diagnose it...

-does every morning now (up from only on cold days) was 82 today.
-deep knocking eventually turning into a droning noise.
-if left to idle still makes noises once fully warm 10 minutes plus
-only goes away after driving
-putting it in and out of gear and thus putting a slight strain on the engine will make the noise come and go briefly, but noise reappears and remains until driving for a while.
- really starts out as a knock and then the drone that comes sounds like something rolling around or rattling in the engine or engine bay, then knock comes back for a few seconds, then back to drone, and back and forth until driving for a while.

EDIT: I am using the word knock, because it doesn't sound like a other more metallic or pingy or disiel sounding piston slaps videos that I have seening on you tube.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Are you sure its the Maintenance Required light and not the MIL (Check Engine Light/Malfunction Indicator Lamp) Because if it is the MIL you need to turn the vehicle off when that is flashing, it indicates a severe misfire that will cause damage to the catalytic converter and engine..

EDIT- NVM wrote the post while you wrote the second one...

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Here's an interesting nugget I came accross a bit ago, didn't get a chance to test it but maybe its worth a shot.

By the way, how many miles on your engine?

 

[4RunnERD]

40,000... what was your interesting nugget? Did I miss it?

 

[jow]

Questions: Please excuse any questions that might seem small. Missing your initial posts is probably where I missed some of your diagnostic info. I’m new to T4Rs but not to general engine diagnostic work.

1. Year, Make, Model?

2. Have you gotten the opinion of at least two Toyota Certified Mechanics?

3. Is the Ford Dealer’s mechanics helping you with this matter?

4. Are you or they 100% sure it’s an internal engine noise or is it possible it’s external?

5. Have any belts been removed to eliminate exterior engine items?

6. Was it Certified or has any warranty?

7. Have you listen to the noise through a stethoscope (to try and pin point the location and type)?

8. Have you tried to capture the noise in the sound mode on a camera to post or show a link?

9. Do you have any previous history and is this a problem that started when.

10. Some previous owners have shared some history and maintenance info that was very helpful.

I hope I can pull something out that will help lead to the problem.

Good Luck! jow

 

[4RunnERD]

Questions: Please excuse any questions that might seem small. Missing your initial posts is probably where I missed some of your diagnostic info. I’m new to T4Rs but not to general engine diagnostic work.

1. Year, Make, Model?

2006, Toyota, 4Runner V8 4x4

2. Have you gotten the opinion of at least two Toyota Certified Mechanics?

Was hoping to rule it out here as something before paying multiple places mulitple diagnostic charges, but after it knocking at 82 degrees the time has come for that cost. It's scheduled for Wednesday morning and I'm dropping it off the night before so they will have a cold start to listen to.

3. Is the Ford Dealer’s mechanics helping you with this matter?

Negative. I live in WI traveled 6 hours to get this in Michigan, No extened warranty, and any warranty that came with the purchase of this used vehicle has since run out. Didn't act sooner becasue I was convinced it was piston slap after some research and we have had a cold spring with mornings being in the low to mid 40's. However when it did it today at 82 degrees I can't imagine anyone would consider that cold.

4. Are you or they 100% sure it’s an internal engine noise or is it possible it’s external?

I am not 100% sure. It will do in park with no other drivetrain components moving, but will do it when I put it in gear also: drive and reverse. It is possible that it is external and I hope it is because I imagine the would be cheaper and actually fixable.

5. Have any belts been removed to eliminate exterior engine items?

No, not yet. That is great idea though and one of the reasons I post here, for helpful suggestions like this one. Is this simple for me to do in my driveway with basic tools? If so I will give it a try tommorow morning.

6. Was it Certified or has any warranty?

Not Certified, just the gerenal used car inspection when it was taking in on trade, I forget exactly but they said something like a 75 point inspection. Even took it to a Toyota Dealer in Michigan for my own inspection before driving it home to WI. They didn't open the engine up or anything, but said everything looked okay to them.

7. Have you listen to the noise through a stethoscope (to try and pin point the location and type)?

Was told to try a long srcew driver. The problem is it is hard to even gauge where I should stick it to listen. Don't currently have access to a floor jack or stands so its really hard for me to get under the vehicle and listen. Tried the other day and I almost burnt my cheek on the exhuast.

8. Have you tried to capture the noise in the sound mode on a camera to post or show a link?

This is a good idea. I don't know that the mic (if there even is one) on my digital camera will pick it up. Can best be heard inside the vehicle. The second you role down the window or pop the hood the noise is overpowered by the roaring of the fan.

9. Do you have any previous history and is this a problem that started when.

No previous history other than a clean carfax. The dealership said that the person who traded it in didn't hand in any service records and even if they had they couldn't share it with me because too much personal information would be attached to it: name, address, credit card number, etc. The noise was not there the day I picked it up. It was warmer that day 55 degrees and it is possible the dealer had it warmed up before I got there. Didn't notice it right away and at first it was only on cooler days 40 degrees or lower so it didn't do it every morning. That's why I was chalking it up to piston slap at first. I thought that once the warmer weather came along the noise would go away. The noise has become more consistent as in every day now, not just cold days, and as the knocking settles down it is replaced with a drone noise. Best analogy I have to date is to find some hard plastic or wood in your house and knock on it as if you were knocking on a door. That's my sound. Not a diesel engine noise. Then as the engine warms it will alternate the knocking noise with what sounds like a drone, similar to what a cement mixer would sound like with the cement sloshing around at the bottom of a rotating barrel.

10. Some previous owners have shared some history and maintenance info that was very helpful.

I wish that was the case here, but know knowledge as to who that was.

I hope I can pull something out that will help lead to the problem.

I hope so too. No question is too small if it leads to a possible solution.

Good Luck! jow

Thanks and thank you.

 

[4RunnERD]

Before anyone flames me. I just wanted to apologize for beating a dead horse. I guess for me, the horse isn't dead yet. It is still a new vehicle to me and after spending $20,000 plus on what is supposed to be a high quality vehicle I am just disappoitned. I am 100% sure this is still a solid vehicle in all other regards and will last many years. Just wish I had a definitive answer here. Those who have experienced this or something similar can feel my pain. It is truly embarassing to have people in your vehicle upon start up and have it sound like someone is knocking on the front door of your house. If the dealer deems it piston slap than I guess I'll have to get over it, but I know that will take time, or move the AZ where the temps are more than 82 degrees so I don't have to put up with this nonsense anymore.

 

[jow]

Thanks for your reply. I feel you have not been involved with basic automotive repairs vs having your work done. With this in mind, we have to hope for some honest opinions and estimated from the pros. Did they quote you an estimate for the diagnostic work? If so, I hope it’s reasonable. At 40,000 mi you would not expect any major needs or piston slap vs a lifter acting up. If for some reason, it is something major, I hope Toyota will step up relater to the matter.

I feel your pain! I just purchased an 07 T4R V-6 with 43,000 mi after a 4 month search. So far I’m Mad But Pleased. Mad that they ran a game on me financially but pleased that I found a good deal according to my 4 mo of research. All of my mechanical inspections (as some of yours +++++ and Certifications up-grades were in order or upgraded when requested).

Good luck And I Wish You The Best! jow

 

[jow]

Any Engine, Transmission or Rear-end work should still be covered under the 7 yr 75,000 mi Factory Drive-Train Warranty. It’s hard to believe the value on the used T4R. I needed it for the Handyman/Volunteering /Cargo and solid rear axle for hauling firewood inside (in a truck’s shell and towing/fishing, behind). After 15 yrs in a 1993 Ford Explorer with no plans to trade with 116,000 mi, avg 3,000 mi a yr since 03 retirement (an ignition switch fire brought on the needed upgrade). I barely know how to drive it, LOL. jow

 

[4RunnERD]

Jow, any advice on how to get the belt off? I might try that tomorrow morning to try and eliminate some options for the source of the noise.

 

[jow]

Yep! I w/n advise pulling the belt if you have no idea or diagram as to how it is threaded or works. I h/n pulled mine but most will come off by relieving the pressure on an idle arm pulley. Removing the belt would eliminate the masking noises as radiator fan, water pump, power steering, alternator, AC's and idler arm pulley (from a glance on the V-6). I would suggest at a minimum of using a broom's handle screwed from the broom (a shorter rod would work better), touch items and listen while pressing your ear lobe to the rod the items the belt is turning “ being very careful not to get into the fan. I’ll expect to hear a progress story tomorrow vs a disaster.

Be safe and let any Toyota dealer look at the matter under the Power Train Warranty. jow

 

[4RunnERD]

Can some confirm which one of these is the pulley tensioner for 2006 V8. Looks like two different versions and I'm not sure which is right. Did a search and found a ton on V6, but this is all have for the V8. Option two is a picture of a 2003 V8, not sure if that is different than an 2006 V8 or not.

Option one:

2006 Toyota 4Runner 4.7L Engine Exploded View | Exploded View Diagram

Option two:

 

[jow]

I am feeling some hesitation related to you going to the Toyota Dealer. I know that feeling also. It’s not always bad!! They should be the most experienced and your problem w/n be the first time they have seen it in most cases. The Bottom Line! At 40,000 it should be covered if it’s major or very simple and possibly fixed free to maintain their reputation. Do not give them a reason to not cover the needed work by causing a larger problem or etc..

Saving time usually will cause me to do some of their small jobs. My 100.00 deductible bumper –bumper warranty is free where I purchased but 100.00 at any other Toyota Dealer. BUT! Drive Train Matters should be free up to 75,000 at any Toyota Dealer. Dealer’s quality of work will very. We have had Camrys to go over the 100.000 mi warr at our closest Dealer. No luck in finding a T4R there 7 mi out of traffic vs 30 mi in Major Major Traffic. It will be a hard decision to go back there but the 100.00 will influence the 1 hr ride vs 10 minutes. Go With Your Best Gut Feeling Or Experience Of Others???

 

[stanleybb50]

Before anyone flames me. I just wanted to apologize for beating a dead horse. I guess for me, the horse isn't dead yet. It is still a new vehicle to me and after spending $20,000 plus on what is supposed to be a high quality vehicle I am just disappoitned. I am 100% sure this is still a solid vehicle in all other regards and will last many years. Just wish I had a definitive answer here. Those who have experienced this or something similar can feel my pain. It is truly embarassing to have people in your vehicle upon start up and have it sound like someone is knocking on the front door of your house. If the dealer deems it piston slap than I guess I'll have to get over it, but I know that will take time, or move the AZ where the temps are more than 82 degrees so I don't have to put up with this nonsense anymore.

I just wanted to add my $0.02 to your message here. I, for one, can fully relate to your fears relating to your new purchase.

I wish I could accurate summarize a similar experience I had when I bought by former Honda Accord. I had a knocking noise that was only when it was fully heated up that would appear around like 2,700 rpms only and only under light load. I had bought that thing with 92k miles on it, and drove it for like 42,000 miles until I traded it in at 134,000 miles when I bought my T4R in April.

I had dropped it off to the dealer I bought it from (not Honda) and replicated the sound with them in the car, to which they decided to have a Honda opinion. They dropped it off with Honda, who proceeded to say it was "normal". I then continued the posting everywhere, and even made a youtube clip about it: YouTube - ‪Honda Accord Engine Slight Knock‬‏

The point of bringing this up was that I posted all over the place to the point of obsession... lol. I never did figure out what the noise was, and the noise never changed. It did burn a quart every 600-700 miles, but Honda's are prone to that anyway. I'm not looking for anyone here to diagnose my noise or anything, especially because I don't even have the car anymore. But just letting you know, from experience, "I feel your pain" because you just got a new ride and just want it to be "right" so you can feel confident to drive it for years to come. (Also, I don't think our noises were similar in fashion at all).

So, bottom line and the whole point of my thread is to tell you that I'm pulling for you to figure it out because I know it can be stressful!!!! Good luck!

I also recommend making a youtube video and giving us the link. Also, the broomstick method, or something shorter.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Answers.com - How would you know if its piston slap
There's the link that did not stick on the last post.

40k puts you under the factory warranty, see if a dealer will cover you on that. Still wracking my brain on the sound. Honestly if it is piston slap you should hear it pretty well in and outside the car.

 

[4RunnERD]

Can some confirm which one of these is the pulley tensioner for 2006 V8. Looks like two different versions and I'm not sure which is right. Did a search and found a ton on V6, but this is all have for the V8. Option two is a picture of a 2003 V8, not sure if that is different than an 2006 V8 or not.

Option one:

2006 Toyota 4Runner 4.7L Engine Exploded View | Exploded View Diagram

Option two:

My bad, option one is clearly the timing belt... it was a long and stressful day yesterday and late in the morning when I posted that.

 

[4RunnERD]

Answers.com - How would you know if its piston slap
There's the link that did not stick on the last post.

40k puts you under the factory warranty, see if a dealer will cover you on that. Still wracking my brain on the sound. Honestly if it is piston slap you should hear it pretty well in and outside the car.

Thanks for the idea. I'm dropping her off tonight. If Toyota doesn't have a answer or says it piston slap, then I might try this just for piece of mind or to verify. Don't want to screw anything else up before I take it in.

 

[4RunnERD]

I just wanted to add my $0.02 to your message here. I, for one, can fully relate to your fears relating to your new purchase.

I wish I could accurate summarize a similar experience I had when I bought by former Honda Accord. I had a knocking noise that was only when it was fully heated up that would appear around like 2,700 rpms only and only under light load. I had bought that thing with 92k miles on it, and drove it for like 42,000 miles until I traded it in at 134,000 miles when I bought my T4R in April.

I had dropped it off to the dealer I bought it from (not Honda) and replicated the sound with them in the car, to which they decided to have a Honda opinion. They dropped it off with Honda, who proceeded to say it was "normal". I then continued the posting everywhere, and even made a youtube clip about it: YouTube - ‪Honda Accord Engine Slight Knock‬‏

The point of bringing this up was that I posted all over the place to the point of obsession... lol. I never did figure out what the noise was, and the noise never changed. It did burn a quart every 600-700 miles, but Honda's are prone to that anyway. I'm not looking for anyone here to diagnose my noise or anything, especially because I don't even have the car anymore. But just letting you know, from experience, "I feel your pain" because you just got a new ride and just want it to be "right" so you can feel confident to drive it for years to come. (Also, I don't think our noises were similar in fashion at all).

So, bottom line and the whole point of my thread is to tell you that I'm pulling for you to figure it out because I know it can be stressful!!!! Good luck!

I also recommend making a youtube video and giving us the link. Also, the broomstick method, or something shorter.

Thank you for understanding. Other people have said they have just learned to live with it and I may infact have to do that, but I haven't roled over in defeat yet. It is just hard to comprehend that the 1999 Nissan Maxima I traded in with 170,000 miles made less noise then a 2006 T4R with 40,000 miles. Sorry to hear you went through a similarly frustrating situation, but it sounds like you are happy now with your T4R.