Trading my '14 KDSS for a '14 non-KDSS: Opinions?

[Throwback]

My truck:
2014 Classic Silver Trail Edition; 38k miles; KDSS

Dealer Certified Pre-Owned truck:
2014 Magnetic Gray Trail Edition; 23k miles; Non-KDSS


I've getting very concerned with the lack of service knowledge of the KDSS system and the lean bothers me; but bottom line is I'm concerned about keeping a truck for 15 years with this system that seems to be a mystery to most Toyota service people.

My rig currently is at max spec for KDSS lean so they refuse to address it. If I decide later on to lift it obviously non-KDSS is the way to go, but also it seems in ten years the non-KDSS would be preferred for overall simplicity and less fail points.

KBB lists the values at $1k higher for the Non-KDSS, assuming favor for the lower mileage. I had the dealer lob me a number for trade and they started at $3k. Logic tells me $1.5k is fair for the value difference, then $500 for fees and such.

Also my driving style keeps me in the Eco zone mostly and getting 20+ avg mpg so I don't think the non-KDSS would be limiting or dangerous for me on the road.

Thoughts?

 

[CbatEngineer1371]

I got non kdss for the simple fact that it's easier to work on (sliders lift skids remove the sway bar) I didn't really know about the kdss lean until after I made the purchase but aperently it is a very common issue. and the whole toyota techs not fully understanding is a good point, I had the same issue with my rx7 with rotary engine, most Mazda dealers wouldn't touch it except the ones that had the certified techs for the rx8s even then they where iffy. but it is your rig to do with as you please.

I don't think either choice is bad, or wrong. Keep the one you got or get the non kdss

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[Kneesamo]

If the KDSS is going to worry you through the years and you don't see it complimenting you and your driving style, then it's not beneficial to have.

I'd say trade it in for the non-KDSS.

 

[trailstandardoffroad]

Why not take off the kdss system and swap in regular swap bars?

 

[zcruiser]

Go for it.

 

[b407driver]

You touched on the KDSS lean issue bugging you, but I don't think you covered the characteristics of the KDSS drive. Not sure why you bought a KDSS vehicle in the first place, but if it's because you test drove both and preferred KDSS, might want to think a little on that.

If you are planning on upgrading suspension, you can mostly solve the lean issue by getting shocks that can be adjusted. Also, keep in mind that non-KDSS trucks can have a tendency to lean a bit to the opposite side, albeit without the fluctuations in lean (I presume).

Trading vehicles gets expensive, but if you have the disposable income and want to do it, go for it. Pretty convenient that they have the perfect vehicle for you.

 

[(none)]

I got non kdss for the simple fact that it's easier to work on (sliders lift skids remove the sway bar) I didn't really know about the kdss lean until after I made the purchase but aperently it is a very common issue. and the whole toyota techs not fully understanding is a good point, I had the same issue with my rx7 with rotary engine, most Mazda dealers wouldn't touch it except the ones that had the certified techs for the rx8s even then they where iffy. but it is your rig to do with as you please.

I don't think either choice is bad, or wrong. Keep the one you got or get the non kdss

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

I did the same as well. Figured if I found one with KDSS for the right price, I'd go for it, but I wasn't going to hunt one out specifically with it. I was able to procure one without.

Why not take off the kdss system and swap in regular swap bars?

Mounting points are different, I don't think it's that easy of a fix.



Have you driven the one without KDSS yet? I can see how it would be more planted while driving with the larger sway bars.

Another way to look at it is, with that $2k you are going to spend, couldn't you get the extended warranty on your current rig? Won't that cover KDSS issues for the next 100k miles? Or is that $2k enough to cover the KDSS issues themselves, should one (or both) of the pistons start leaking?

 

[LUVDA4RUNNER]

Keep the Kdss and save the money. If you have problems switch out the kdss and use the money you saved for a lift. The dealer is going to hose you on this.

 

[Throwback]

How would I get hosed? KBB values the non-KDSS $1k higher due to the lower mileage.

If I pay the $1k value difference and throw in a couple hundred to cover their paperwork and admin effort I don't see how that's getting hosed.

I told them they'd have to switch my KO2s over as well.

 

[nb rob]

I hope this doesn't sound rude, hear me out.

You need to get a grip.

The numbers you're describing, 3/8", 1/4" differences, -- ridiculous.
every single road surface or parking surface that you'll ever see will be sloped for drainage. If you didn't bring a tape measure out in the first place, you'd probably never know.

I already mentioned that subtle differences in tire pressure will affect the measurements as you're taking them. As will even a slight slope. I'm working on a retrofit to a stadium right now, and the slab is supposed to be flat. well, it's not. And nobody would ever know if we didn't survey the hell out of it. If you parked your 4runner on the concourse, it would lean.
I remember a short period in my career where I did drawings for roadwork. You wouldn't believe the crown that is incorporated in to roadwork. Or drainage for parking. The world isn't flat like Shaquille O'neil says.

Just go offroad already, enjoy the truck, and stop running around it with a tape measure. You're worrying about something that isn't a problem.
If you swap for another 4r, it might lean the other way. If you want a perfectly balanced vehicle for who-knows-why, maybe a 4x4 isn't for you.

If it's leaning 1" or so and very obvious, get a OME trim packer and call it a day.

This seems like a personal issue, and not a mechanical issue. I'm thinking your vehicle gives you tons of grief if you're worrying about arbitrary measurements based on how many gallons of fuel are left, etc.

I sincerely hope you're able to get over this, or you will never be satisfied with your 4runner.

good luck

 

[Throwback]

To clarify - I'm not considering trading to get rid of the lean. My issue is that the KDSS seems to be a strange system and I plan to keep this vehicle for many years and many miles. If it's weird and confuses service techs today what's it going to do in ten years?

The lower mileage is nice as well.

 

[nb rob]

To clarify - I'm not considering trading to get rid of the lean. My issue is that the KDSS seems to be a strange system and I plan to keep this vehicle for many years and many miles. If it's weird and confuses service techs today what's it going to do in ten years?

The lower mileage is nice as well.

my mistake - sorry.

The eventual repair of KDSS is on the back of my mind too...
but I'm more worried about nuclear war before that happens.

 

[LUVDA4RUNNER]

How would I get hosed? KBB values the non-KDSS $1k higher due to the lower mileage.

If I pay the $1k value difference and throw in a couple hundred to cover their paperwork and admin effort I don't see how that's getting hosed.

I told them they'd have to switch my KO2s over as well.

They will try to hide you, they only do these things to make money.
The other thing to think about is you are trading for anused vehicle, why did the other individual trade it in? I assume you bought your tail new. So to me you are taking on a risk at least you know your current vehicle

 

[TBBrewer]

Kdss?

When we bought the new 4R Trail in '16 I figured it had KDSS as the brochure said that all Canadian Trails had it. I was really pleased about the way it handled compared to the '15 Wrangler JKU we traded on it, taking the twisty highways like a sports car! Then I learned more about KDSS and crawle4d under the truck to see it, and by damn, our rig doesn't have it. And I don't miss it, just one less thing to go wrong. - Ted

 

[Throwback]

No, I bought mine last October as a Certified Pre Owned with 25k miles. I now have 37k miles.

Theirs is also Certified Pre Owned so it's covered under the original 3yr/36k warranty as well as the CPO 1yr/12k mile comprehensive (starts on date of current sell) and 7yr/100k powertrain (starts on date of original sale).

 

[1engineer]

To clarify - I'm not considering trading to get rid of the lean. My issue is that the KDSS seems to be a strange system and I plan to keep this vehicle for many years and many miles. If it's weird and confuses service techs today what's it going to do in ten years?

The lower mileage is nice as well.

You have stated you want to keep this truck for many years, yet you are willing to trade it for another one you will keep for many years?

My only advice is to test drive, extensively, before you buy. I have had both and much prefer my current KDSS equipped vehicle. I am not worried at all about the durability of the KDSS system. It's extremely simple design and few moving parts mean it will be as durable as anything else Toyota builds.

This forum has a way of "magnifying" obscure problems people have. Truth be known probably everyone who has had a problem with KDSS (right now I count 3 that have posted here) has posted here. My logic is that when most normal people have a problem they post it on the internet. This is the biggest 4Runner forum so they come here. Even though this is a popular forum, it is but a small microcosm of the general Toyota 4Runner population.

All in all, I wouldn't worry about KDSS and I don't. Neither do several other knowledgeable people here like [MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION] or [MENTION=96008]Engineer[/MENTION]. I guess what I am saying is don't get caught up in the hype lol. But hey, if you want to trade, go for it. Life's too short .

 

[Louise]

It sounds like you're asking the service techs to fix something they can't fix (lean), which makes them seem like they're unfamiliar with the system. I'm sure if your KDSS was actually broken, then they'd be able to actually do something about it.

 

[Throwback]

This is a very unique accidental situation I fell into because I was having the service center look at the lean and noticed they had that non-KDSS Trail on the lot.

It was even more accidental because I was semi joking when I asked the sales manager what I'd have to pay in trade for the non-KDSS trail. I figured they'd want significantly more money but once I realized I could into the non-KDSS rig with 15k less miles for a grand or two the wheels started turning.

If they happened to sell that one before I moved on it I'd let the whole thing go I believe.

I also have a dent in the roof that I posted about before and more interior wear than the non-KDSS rig. They didn't seem to notice any of that last night when this conversation took place.

Pics:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/229638-dent-my-roof-i-didnt-notice-when-i-bought.html

 

[Jetboy]

My suggestion is that KDSS is one of the least complicated systems on you car. Compared to something as common as the power steering system. The brakes. The engine. Transmission. - etc. I understand that some mechanics are not knowledgeable about it. It probably is somewhat expensive to replace components if they do fail. But so is power steering. So are power brakes. Would you swap to get rid of power steering because it's too complicated and expensive to fix?

Toyota sells around 5,000 4runners per year with it - but they also sell 25,000 GX460's and every one of them has KDSS. It's not something that Toyota will stop supporting or making parts available for. As vehicles age there should be more than enough supply of both new and used parts to repair anything that does fail. And failure rates are very low. I think there's one or two known examples that have ever been reported here of KDSS failures.

If you want something suspension wise you can't do with KDSS swapping is probably reasonable. Personally - I'd want at least $2000 more for your KDSS model than the non-KDSS version. I would not trade down without some cash in my pocket. In the late model used 4runner market a few thousand miles won't make a dime of difference in the dealer's pricing.

Also for me - if I didn't want KDSS - I would have bought a limited. Are you sure you want a trail edition?

 

[philsey]

[MENTION=147450]Throwback[/MENTION]

Honestly, this is just another "which oil/shocks/springs/tires/lift/wax/tint/audio/seat covers/shift knob/hid kit" ...... question. That is; there is no right answer, just opinions, and only very very rarely a consensus.

So:
1. you can afford the change,
2. the current setup bothers you,
3. you found a good deal,
4. get over it, grow a pair, and buy it before someone else does. Done and done.

:hug: