tranny mileage - no transmission fluid change

[4RunnerSR52004]

I have almost 161,000 miles on mine, just purchased recently, not a bit of trouble out of the tranny & it shifts nice n smooth! I checked the dipstick & the fluid is a nice reddish color & not brown! I think I'm good for awhile & look fwd to hitting 200K!
:rockon:

 

[blackmax]

Okay, but how are they testing it?

ATF isn't as standardized as oil. WS is NOT Dexron VI, nor is Type IV. So how are they quantifying the results in a way that reflects how the fluid is designed to wear? You see what I am getting at?

When you send it in, you also indicate what kind of oil it is (eg, Redline 5W40, or ATF T-IV....etc.), miles and vehicle. The lab knows what the baselines and minimums are for that lubricant. Then, test it against those baselines, plus for any contaminants. So, when you send in a sample of an oil that is Redline D4 ATF, they know what the universal averages are and what to look for in terms of trouble. There are certain maximums (contaminants, oxidation, acidity, etc) and minimums (viscosity, baseline, etc) that are allowable. An oil within spec is a good oil....period. It's performing the function for which it was designed.

Next, actually, many ATFs are pretty much the same....for the most part anyway. Saying this can cause one of those ridiculous "oil debate" things......but.......it's just true. I was going to go into this....but figure that's for another thread. Let me just say that I use Redline D4 in my transmission (dumped T-IV).

 

[RCs4Runner]

A 1st gen Tundra owner w/ the 2UZFE engine changed his around 400K because of a failed trans cooler. Now he has almost 800K miles, same oil. Several other 1st gen Tundra owners have over 300K miles on the same trans oil too.

 

[JB.]

Wow.

I'd love to read about that. Anything you can give me to aid the search would be appreciated (forum, etc)

 

[BlackWorksInc]

When you send it in, you also indicate what kind of oil it is (eg, Redline 5W40, or ATF T-IV....etc.), miles and vehicle. The lab knows what the baselines and minimums are for that lubricant. Then, test it against those baselines, plus for any contaminants. So, when you send in a sample of an oil that is Redline D4 ATF, they know what the universal averages are and what to look for in terms of trouble. There are certain maximums (contaminants, oxidation, acidity, etc) and minimums (viscosity, baseline, etc) that are allowable. An oil within spec is a good oil....period. It's performing the function for which it was designed.

Next, actually, ATFs are pretty much all the same....for the most part anyway. Saying this can cause one of those ridiculous "oil debate" things......but.......it's just true. I was going to go into this....but figure that's for another thread. Let me just say that I use Redline D4 in my transmission.

I've heard some people passing off information that Toyota WS Fluid is just Dexron VI. But without any hard evidence its just speculation and "well it hasn't blown up yet" logic.

The issue is we (including everyone but the engineers who made the fluid) have no idea what makes WS ATF special as far as I have been able to gather. Until we can determine what WS ATF is exactly, then we can start going "hey its got the same chemical properties and concentrations as Dexron VI," until then we're flying blind.

I'm still trying to find an accurate breakdown of WS that I can use to determine if there are any aftermarket transmission fluids that work with WS. Because the "Universal" stuff is not very universal if you look into it and I don't mean to be rude but ATF is not at all created equal anymore, people try to believe that its all the same as it was 20 years ago but even engine oil is overly complicated now (granted for us its not that bad, but I'm referring to the entire automotive industry with this statement.) The same is true with Toyota SLLC (Super Long Life Coolant), I was trying to help a forum member find an aftermarket coolant that works and so far all I have found is one brand (many of the brands I looked at had incomplete information on their websites), the others that say they work for all makes and models are actually the wrong coolants completely. :/

It comes down to the fact that without hard evidence to back it up, we really shouldn't be using anything beyond what specifications call for. I'm not saying this because I work for Toyota and I want to sell the secret sauce, I'm saying this because there is a reason why the vehicle was designed the way it was. For example, part of the reason (though in my opinion a small factor) we went to WS was because people were putting the wrong ATF in their vehicles and ruining transmissions. Now there's a ton of great companies that make awesome fluids and parts, its just a matter of making sure that their specifications meet what the vehicle needs, which is a much more complicated process than "Hey its says so on the bottle!"

Post Note-

Here's an example of how annoying it can be to try and find the right coolant for your 4Runner if you don't want to use Toyota "Pink" SLLC. I liked articles and so on explaining why I was looking for those specific chemicals in the aftermarket coolant.

Also, BlackMax I'm not saying you're wrong; its just that without any hard evidence to compare to know formulations of say Dexron VI we can't exactly make any statements beyond casual observation. You got me excited by the prospect of testing the fluids because I feel that may be a way into finally getting a proper formulation of WS ATF that can be used to compare against other more easily obtained ATFs for possible use.

 

[toyo]

I've heard some people passing off information that Toyota WS Fluid is just Dexron VI. But without any hard evidence its just speculation and "well it hasn't blown up yet" logic.

The issue is we (including everyone but the engineers who made the fluid) have no idea what makes WS ATF special as far as I have been able to gather. Until we can determine what WS ATF is exactly, then we can start going "hey its got the same chemical properties and concentrations as Dexron VI," until then we're flying blind.

I'm still trying to find an accurate breakdown of WS that I can use to determine if there are any aftermarket transmission fluids that work with WS. Because the "Universal" stuff is not very universal if you look into it and I don't mean to be rude but ATF is not at all created equal anymore, people try to believe that its all the same as it was 20 years ago but even engine oil is overly complicated now (granted for us its not that bad, but I'm referring to the entire automotive industry with this statement.) The same is true with Toyota SLLC (Super Long Life Coolant), I was trying to help a forum member find an aftermarket coolant that works and so far all I have found is one brand (many of the brands I looked at had incomplete information on their websites), the others that say they work for all makes and models are actually the wrong coolants completely. :/

It comes down to the fact that without hard evidence to back it up, we really shouldn't be using anything beyond what specifications call for. I'm not saying this because I work for Toyota and I want to sell the secret sauce, I'm saying this because there is a reason why the vehicle was designed the way it was. For example, part of the reason (though in my opinion a small factor) we went to WS was because people were putting the wrong ATF in their vehicles and ruining transmissions. Now there's a ton of great companies that make awesome fluids and parts, its just a matter of making sure that their specifications meet what the vehicle needs, which is a much more complicated process than "Hey its says so on the bottle!"

Post Note-

Here's an example of how annoying it can be to try and find the right coolant for your 4Runner if you don't want to use Toyota "Pink" SLLC. I liked articles and so on explaining why I was looking for those specific chemicals in the aftermarket coolant.

Also, BlackMax I'm not saying you're wrong; its just that without any hard evidence to compare to know formulations of say Dexron VI we can't exactly make any statements beyond casual observation. You got me excited by the prospect of testing the fluids because I feel that may be a way into finally getting a proper formulation of WS ATF that can be used to compare against other more easily obtained ATFs for possible use.

The testing of fluids is actually pretty cool IMO. I have used Blackstone for many years and find it very interesting to see exactly how a certain fluid is holding up. I will contact the lady I discuss stuff with at Blackstone about this exact topic and let you know what she says. I see what your saying about the testing criteria of WS. They can take a virgin sample of WS and create the baseline. They will use this baseline to compare how your fluid compares and what is breaking down in the fluid. They even tell you if there is any trace of coolant in the fluid, which of course you know means cross contamination.

I will see what I can find out for us and let you know.

 

[superman3043]

It's great to have this data point on a one owner vehicle.

Well, technically not single owner. I've owned it since 32K, but I doubt it was serviced prior to me buying it.

 

[Gatafly]

I've heard some people passing off information that Toyota WS Fluid is just Dexron VI. But without any hard evidence its just speculation and "well it hasn't blown up yet" logic.

The issue is we (including everyone but the engineers who made the fluid) have no idea what makes WS ATF special as far as I have been able to gather. Until we can determine what WS ATF is exactly, then we can start going "hey its got the same chemical properties and concentrations as Dexron VI," until then we're flying blind.

I'm still trying to find an accurate breakdown of WS that I can use to determine if there are any aftermarket transmission fluids that work with WS. Because the "Universal" stuff is not very universal if you look into it and I don't mean to be rude but ATF is not at all created equal anymore, people try to believe that its all the same as it was 20 years ago but even engine oil is overly complicated now (granted for us its not that bad, but I'm referring to the entire automotive industry with this statement.) The same is true with Toyota SLLC (Super Long Life Coolant), I was trying to help a forum member find an aftermarket coolant that works and so far all I have found is one brand (many of the brands I looked at had incomplete information on their websites), the others that say they work for all makes and models are actually the wrong coolants completely. :/

It comes down to the fact that without hard evidence to back it up, we really shouldn't be using anything beyond what specifications call for. I'm not saying this because I work for Toyota and I want to sell the secret sauce, I'm saying this because there is a reason why the vehicle was designed the way it was. For example, part of the reason (though in my opinion a small factor) we went to WS was because people were putting the wrong ATF in their vehicles and ruining transmissions. Now there's a ton of great companies that make awesome fluids and parts, its just a matter of making sure that their specifications meet what the vehicle needs, which is a much more complicated process than "Hey its says so on the bottle!"

Post Note-

Here's an example of how annoying it can be to try and find the right coolant for your 4Runner if you don't want to use Toyota "Pink" SLLC. I liked articles and so on explaining why I was looking for those specific chemicals in the aftermarket coolant.

Also, BlackMax I'm not saying you're wrong; its just that without any hard evidence to compare to know formulations of say Dexron VI we can't exactly make any statements beyond casual observation. You got me excited by the prospect of testing the fluids because I feel that may be a way into finally getting a proper formulation of WS ATF that can be used to compare against other more easily obtained ATFs for possible use.

Amzoil makes a WS for Toyotas. Put it in mine 35k miles ago and she is smooooth.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=70181]Gatafly[/MENTION]

They make essentially a "Universal" ATF that supposedly is also compatible with Toyota WS ATF. I've pointed out in the past how you have to be cautious with these "universal" fluids and while I personally love Amsoil and run many of their products in my vehicle, I am still skeptical about this product without further evidence.

AMSOIL Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid

I'm not saying its a bad fluid, but based on a few points its suspect and needs to be properly vetted.

-Its not a WS Specific Fluid Alternative, but rather a Universal style fluid (which may make sense if WS and some of the other fluids it says it covers are really Dexron VI fluids)

-We still don't know what WS ATF really is so its hard to say that Amsoil's product meets those requirements (again, due to a lack of proper data in this regard)

-Toyota does not approve of any fluid other than Genuine Toyota WS ATF at the moment, this could be because of a couple reasons.

~Amsoil did not submit their formula for testing​

~Amsoil did not wish to pay royalties/fees associated with "certifying" their fluid​

~Amsoil's fluid does not meet Toyota's standards (unlikely based on my experience with Amsoil)
​

It just comes down to needing proper information beyond viscosity and pour rates to properly determine what the fluid actually is and how to best match it up.

 

[Gatafly]

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]

I understand. So far it is great and Amsoil has a fantastic warranty so if it causes any problems they take care of it.

 

[Neumonic]

195,568 miles so far on original Transmission fluid - 2003 V8 Limited AWD

 

[Gecko123]

195,568 miles so far on original Transmission fluid - 2003 V8 Limited AWD

nice. i guess there may be some truth what Toyota says, but then again, the 2003 tranny is not sealed, not that that should make a big difference. i dont think any ways.

 

[cloudrunner]

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] - I am going to hit 100k miles this week and my trans fluid has never been touched. I have an 07' V6 SR5. I called the local Toyota dealer today to make an appointment for a drain/fill and the service supervisor told me they only do transmission flushes. Why won't they drop the pan, empty the oil and refill with a new seal?

 

[JB.]

195,568 miles so far on original Transmission fluid - 2003 V8 Limited AWD

Wow, on the non-"lifetime" fluid, no less.

I saw your purchase thread and you mentioned that the vehicle had all the service records. Was there any discussion at that time about the ATF being original?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] - I am going to hit 100k miles this week and my trans fluid has never been touched. I have an 07' V6 SR5. I called the local Toyota dealer today to make an appointment for a drain/fill and the service supervisor told me they only do transmission flushes. Why won't they drop the pan, empty the oil and refill with a new seal?

The new seal is just FIPG, we don't use a gasket on most of our transmissions any more; everyone is going to sealants. The brass pick-up screen is pretty good, most of the guys at work haven't seen one get clogged up or have one need to really be cleaned on the first service. This was something I myself was concerned about when I did my 100k, but my shop foreman who's been in the Toyota world longer than I have helped convince me not to drop the pan.

As for why they won't do the service when you're willing to pay them, I'm not entirely sure.

 

[nevada]

The new seal is just FIPG, we don't use a gasket on most of our transmissions any more; everyone is going to sealants. The brass pick-up screen is pretty good, most of the guys at work haven't seen one get clogged up or have one need to really be cleaned on the first service. This was something I myself was concerned about when I did my 100k, but my shop foreman who's been in the Toyota world longer than I have helped convince me not to drop the pan.

As for why they won't do the service when you're willing to pay them, I'm not entirely sure.

is there not an actual filter in there?

 

[BlackWorksInc]

is there not an actual filter in there?

Its a metal mesh filter, not a disposable one like older transmissions. Its technically cleanable and reusable.

 

[nevada]

Its a metal mesh filter, not a disposable one like older transmissions. Its technically cleanable and reusable.

ah. interesting. no point in dropping the pan then.

I think the c4 in my truck is the same. it doesn't have an actual filter.
altho, sadly, it also doesn't have a drain plug. I think the next time I drop it, im welding one in.

 

[txrunner06]

I had my 06 runner done at 115k and also after reading alot on the forum just wanted to do a drain/fill but my dealership also said they cannot do that and can only do the flush. So after talking to the service manager went ahead and had them flush it and now at 122k have had no issues with it and still shifting good.

 

[MikeInNH]

I had my 06 runner done at 115k and also after reading alot on the forum just wanted to do a drain/fill but my dealership also said they cannot do that and can only do the flush.

They can....just that they WON'T. There's a difference. I have a drain/fill every 50k miles (I tow a lot). So I know it can be done.