Transmission Fluid (tricky situation) (muddy fluid)

[hairpin]

Hey all -- I can anticipate the types of responses I'm going to get based on the title. But I rely on everyone's really good advice on this forum. So appreciate the advice in advance.

My 02' limited is in great shape. But the transmission fluid is a greyish/oil color. That can't be good because I know it's supposed to be red.

When I bought this thing from the PO last year, I took it to Toyota to get a recall on the suspension done, and had them change the oil. I also asked my tech about the transmission fluid, anticipating I would have them flush and fill the transmission.

He actually advised against flushing. He told me that overtime, friction material from the transmission break-up, and get mixed into the fluid. When you flush, he said I would be losing all of those friction particles, which could actually cause the transmission to slip (and even die). I asked him about just changing the fluid, and he told me to wait. That was 5k miles ago.

For the first time, I was entering the highway (not towing/no snow) and I got an A/T hot temp. light. When I pulled over at a gas station and turned the car back on, it went away. It hasn't come on since.

My question for all of you is, should I just get the fluid replaced (no flush) just a drain and fill?

 

[FD7683]

How many miles? Although mine has missed 2 drain and fill changes (30K), mine's still red. I have never changed the fluid in this truck since I bought it in 2012. The radiator is notorious for pink milkshake where coolant and ATF mix together, often ruining the transmission.

Since you said it's like a muddy color, when was it last changed? If it looks brown/black, chances are it's original fluid - and never changed. I would also open the coolant cap (when cold) and check the coolant condition. If it's not a red, or green color - there's a problem with the radiator linked to the transmission as well.

Start by finding out when the ATF was last changed. Download the CARFAX app on your phone (and add your vehicle) and check the service records. After this, we can give you a good response.

Don't take it to the highway again until you address the transmission issue.


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2000 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited Sport Package V6

 

[hairpin]

How many miles? Although mine has missed 2 drain and fill changes (30K), mine's still red. I have never changed the fluid in this truck since I bought it in 2012. The radiator is notorious for pink milkshake where coolant and ATF mix together, often ruining the transmission.

Since you said it's like a muddy color, when was it last changed? If it looks brown/black, chances are it's original fluid - and never changed. I would also open the coolant cap (when cold) and check the coolant condition. If it's not a red, or green color - there's a problem with the radiator linked to the transmission as well.

Start by finding out when the ATF was last changed. Download the CARFAX app on your phone (and add your vehicle) and check the service records. After this, we can give you a good response.

Don't take it to the highway again until you address the transmission issue.


______________

2000 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited Sport Package V6

Thanks. No idea when it was last changed. The car has 210k on it. The PO had the timing belt changed about 60k ago. I was aware of pink milkshake issue, and specifically asked him about it. He never had that issue. I have his service records -- I don't remember seeing AT fluid change. I also checked the radiator when I bought the car and the fluid was fine. Toyota also checked 5k miles ago (or so they told me they did) and there were no issues there.

Car keeps temp. perfectly. Idles perfectly. etc.

 

[FD7683]

Thanks. No idea when it was last changed. The car has 210k on it. The PO had the timing belt changed about 60k ago. I was aware of pink milkshake issue, and specifically asked him about it. He never had that issue. I have his service records -- I don't remember seeing AT fluid change. I also checked the radiator when I bought the car and the fluid was fine. Toyota also checked 5k miles ago (or so they told me they did) and there were no issues there.

Car keeps temp. perfectly. Idles perfectly. etc.

Have a good sniff on the dipstick, and the hole that it goes in. If it smells burnt, it's bad news. Can you also post a picture of the ATF condition? since you said it looks muddy? You don't have to. Rub the transmission fluid with both your fingers, and have a feel for it - if it feels a bit grainy, there's an issue going on, or it's been neglected.

Based on my knowledge, you are taking a gamble if you change the fluid (especially if it smells, and looks burnt).


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2000 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited Sport Package V6

 

[Malcolm99]

I would do a quick drain, measure exact amount and refill, " muddy ain't good" if it's really bad as you discribe I wouldn't move it much, go through the gears, roll a few feet back and forth, let engine get to temp, and drain measure and fill again, ignore the dipstick level for now except the cold reading while running, if the fluid looks decent on the dip stick now go for a 20 minute ride getting up to highway speeds for most of it or repeat 1st step, stop on level ground and check dipstick while engine is running, since you have spare fluid and a funnel with you add if needed, it's a pain to get the dipstick back in so be patient, if it doesn't wanna go pull it out and turn it 90* and help it down the tube with two hands. You don't need anything special for ATF in these, I buy it buy the bucket DexIII. Careful with the drain plug, it doesn't take much to seal it, a new washer might be wise since your gunna have it in and off a few times.
If you saved the tranny, drop the pan and replace the filter and keep doing ATF changes every oil change until it looks really good.

 

[hairpin]

Have a good sniff on the dipstick, and the hole that it goes in. If it smells burnt, it's bad news. Can you also post a picture of the ATF condition? since you said it looks muddy? You don't have to. Rub the transmission fluid with both your fingers, and have a feel for it - if it feels a bit grainy, there's an issue going on, or it's been neglected.

Based on my knowledge, you are taking a gamble if you change the fluid (especially if it smells, and looks burnt).


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2000 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited Sport Package V6

Sounds good. Im going to do that today and I’ll report back. I haven’t checked the AT fluid since I bought the car about 5k miles ago last year. I’ll take a picture for you guys too and report on how it “feels” in my hand.

Thanks for everyone’s input so far.

 

[hairpin]

Based on my knowledge, you are taking a gamble if you change the fluid (especially if it smells, and looks burnt).
______________

2000 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited Sport Package V6

Can you elaborate on this? What’s the risk in changing? For the same reason the Toyota tech told me?

And if so, then what do I do, just leave it in there? Does that mean my AT’s life is ticking away?

 

[PatrickStapler]

No offense to the previous posts, but I was told by the PO of my now sold ‘99 with 317K miles not to change the fluid. Well the trans literally stopped pulling in any gear. So I dropped the pan and changed the shift solenoids and the screen and did a complete flush and fill following Tim’s video. Instantly started working again. The fluid I removed was black and smelled burned.

 

[hairpin]

No offense to the previous posts, but I was told by the PO of my now sold ‘99 with 317K miles not to change the fluid. Well the trans literally stopped pulling in any gear. So I dropped the pan and changed the shift solenoids and the screen and did a complete flush and fill following Tim’s video. Instantly started working again. The fluid I removed was black and smelled burned.

Thanks, this is helpful to hear. I just cant see how leaving in bad fluid is the right decision. But I also dont have the same collective wisdom as everyone on this forum, hence the help.

 

[hairpin]

Have a good sniff on the dipstick, and the hole that it goes in. If it smells burnt, it's bad news. Can you also post a picture of the ATF condition? since you said it looks muddy? You don't have to. Rub the transmission fluid with both your fingers, and have a feel for it - if it feels a bit grainy, there's an issue going on, or it's been neglected.

Based on my knowledge, you are taking a gamble if you change the fluid (especially if it smells, and looks burnt).


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2000 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited Sport Package V6

Ok, here are the results. See pics.

1. The fluid does NOT smell burnt
2. When putting the fluid between my fingers, it is completely smooth, like fresh motor oil. No texture.

Colors as shown in pics. The AT fluid is a reddish/gray.

 

[FD7683]

Can you elaborate on this? What’s the risk in changing? For the same reason the Toyota tech told me?

And if so, then what do I do, just leave it in there? Does that mean my AT’s life is ticking away?

This is coming from Honda knowledge, If you change the old worn out fluid (black, or dark brown), it starts slipping due to the old fluid holding up the transmission internals (just like the Toyota tech said). Honda Transmission are garbage, so thats that.

Looking at your pics, I say you should change it along with the filter - so pretty much do a full transmission service. Use the OEM Filter, and use a quality name brand ATF (Valvoline, OEM, ect.). It just looks to be way overdue. Dealers don't want to touch old ATF because they know they are taking a risk changing it since the transmission could start slipping (or in some cases, stop working all together) right after service.

Is your transmission slipping on any gear when driving normal?


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2000 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited Sport Package V6

 

[Malcolm99]

The old don't change the transmission fluid because its black and blah blah blah is BS, flushing can cause issues here but they use your transmission to exchange/pump the fluid out so its no more pressure than the transmission would normally see, draining and filling is perfectly fine and perhaps safer if the tranny has been neglected like yours, do exactly what I suggested, save yourself some time and your tranny, if the tranny is happy move on, if the tranny is slipping now or whatever deal with that or try some of the snake oil that's available, running old burnt fluid is not a solution and offers no benefits and isn't good for the tranny no matter what a tech says, ask a transmission shop. Black fluid means it's burnt, your AT temp light came on, it's burnt change it. If the tech had done what you asked originally you might not be in this situation.

 

[hairpin]

This is coming from Honda knowledge, If you change the old worn out fluid (black, or dark brown), it starts slipping due to the old fluid holding up the transmission internals (just like the Toyota tech said). Honda Transmission are garbage, so thats that.

Looking at your pics, I say you should change it along with the filter - so pretty much do a full transmission service. Use the OEM Filter, and use a quality name brand ATF (Valvoline, OEM, ect.). It just looks to be way overdue. Dealers don't want to touch old ATF because they know they are taking a risk changing it since the transmission could start slipping (or in some cases, stop working all together) right after service.

Is your transmission slipping on any gear when driving normal?


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2000 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited Sport Package V6

Nope. No slipping at all. In fact it shifts like a new car—very smooth.

My lady was driving the truck when the light apparently came on. But it looks like after further questioning, the car might not have been on. She was still in ignition and thought the car was on. If you notice, when you’re in ignition and wait 2 seconds, the three lights that stay on are: AT Temp/Oil light/check engine.

I also have an obd and ran a scan. No fault codes.

So it looks like the AT light did not come on.

That said, my fluid is the color it is. Im thinking I may just wait to change it unless I have any issues.

 

[FD7683]

Nope. No slipping at all. In fact it shifts like a new car—very smooth.

My lady was driving the truck when the light apparently came on. But it looks like after further questioning, the car might not have been on. She was still in ignition and thought the car was on. If you notice, when you’re in ignition and wait 2 seconds, the three lights that stay on are: AT Temp/Oil light/check engine.

I also have an obd and ran a scan. No fault codes.

So it looks like the AT light did not come on.

That said, my fluid is the color it is. Im thinking I may just wait to change it unless I have any issues.

I wouldn't hesitate to change it given the information you included. If you want to be more safer, I would start with a drain and fill - and see how the transmission goes after that. If nothing happens after that, I would drop the pan and change the filter as well. I have to do this to my rig soon as well.

I know about the light you said that turns on when you go ahead and crank the car.

These transmission are really good if they are taken care of. Even with neglect, they still shift well. I will admit that I do neglect my transmission, but I will service mine soon. Still shifts fine.

______________

2000 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited Sport Package V6

 

[FD7683]

I would do a quick drain, measure exact amount and refill, " muddy ain't good" if it's really bad as you discribe I wouldn't move it much, go through the gears, roll a few feet back and forth, let engine get to temp, and drain measure and fill again, ignore the dipstick level for now except the cold reading while running, if the fluid looks decent on the dip stick now go for a 20 minute ride getting up to highway speeds for most of it or repeat 1st step, stop on level ground and check dipstick while engine is running, since you have spare fluid and a funnel with you add if needed, it's a pain to get the dipstick back in so be patient, if it doesn't wanna go pull it out and turn it 90* and help it down the tube with two hands. You don't need anything special for ATF in these, I buy it buy the bucket DexIII. Careful with the drain plug, it doesn't take much to seal it, a new washer might be wise since your gunna have it in and off a few times.
If you saved the tranny, drop the pan and replace the filter and keep doing ATF changes every oil change until it looks really good.

It's normally the quick oil change shops ruining the transmissions by actually flushing it - which is bad. I wouldn't let them do an oil change in the car (I do everything at home, unless it's urgent). Most dealerships like you said, have that fluid exchange system so it's safe to do it. I wouldn't change the fluid only if it's slipping, and if the dipstick shows black (and burnt odor) fluid.

You're right about the damn dipstick on the 4Runner. I was fighting that dipstick last Tuesday lmao. I was thinking I was going to need to snag another one off a 4runner (mine was flexing). No 4runner's in the junkyard (I had to get a part for the Honda), it is rare to find one in there - they just don't give up. Saw hella Ford and GM trucks in there though .

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2000 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited Sport Package V6

 

[brillo_76]

Lots of threads on here about atm fluid.
Search the forum if interested.

My theory and what I seen in 30 years of hobby mechanic on Toyota.

I exchanged mine at 215k from the PO. Pulled pan cleaned magnets put pan gasket on it with a new screen. My rig now has 270k on it. I exchange it again at 300k.

People are scared to change atm fluid. It's their rigs and their choice.


No longer red.

No longer lubricating and your magnets will be covered along with your screen filter clogging.

Filter clogs enough the fluid cant flow and the transmission starved for fluid and melts down.

All your doing is sand blasting your transmission with dirty fluid though as the fluid holds the particles with it.

The damage is already done and will slip etc if its damaged. [ not changing it wont prevent this]

Clean fluid filter and magnets and properly working solenoids make for a happy well functioning transmission.

Sent from my SM-J337V using Tapatalk

 

[Captsolo]

Hey all -- I can anticipate the types of responses I'm going to get based on the title. But I rely on everyone's really good advice on this forum. So appreciate the advice in advance.

My 02' limited is in great shape. But the transmission fluid is a greyish/oil color. That can't be good because I know it's supposed to be red.

When I bought this thing from the PO last year, I took it to Toyota to get a recall on the suspension done, and had them change the oil. I also asked my tech about the transmission fluid, anticipating I would have them flush and fill the transmission.

He actually advised against flushing. He told me that overtime, friction material from the transmission break-up, and get mixed into the fluid. When you flush, he said I would be losing all of those friction particles, which could actually cause the transmission to slip (and even die). I asked him about just changing the fluid, and he told me to wait. That was 5k miles ago.

For the first time, I was entering the highway (not towing/no snow) and I got an A/T hot temp. light. When I pulled over at a gas station and turned the car back on, it went away. It hasn't come on since.

My question for all of you is, should I just get the fluid replaced (no flush) just a drain and fill?

I don't like the temperature light for the AT coming on. I'd change the fluid. Maybe even change it all.
Wonder if you got water in it some how?

Fluid would not be red but black or gray after 50,000 miles of driving.

I own a 2005 4runner purchased it new. Never had any warning lights on the dash in 15 years of driving and 150,000 miles.

I had the dealer do a 5 quart DF two years ago for the tranny - at 105,000 miles..

I will do that again in another 30,000 miles

Shifts perfect. Almost afraid to touch it.

As long as yours shifts ok, a 5 quart DF is what I would do first.

 

[Bajamar4]

Transmission oil change revisited

No offense to the previous posts, but I was told by the PO of my now sold ‘99 with 317K miles not to change the fluid. Well the trans literally stopped pulling in any gear. So I dropped the pan and changed the shift solenoids and the screen and did a complete flush and fill following Tim’s video. Instantly started working again. The fluid I removed was black and smelled burned.

I wouldn't hesitate to change it given the information you included. If you want to be more safer, I would start with a drain and fill - and see how the transmission goes after that. If nothing happens after that, I would drop the pan and change the filter as well. I have to do this to my rig soon as well.

I know about the light you said that turns on when you go ahead and crank the car.

These transmission are really good if they are taken care of. Even with neglect, they still shift well. I will admit that I do neglect my transmission, but I will service mine soon. Still shifts fine.

______________

2000 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited Sport Package V6

Just a quick question regarding your comment on flushing out the old oil and why it may be bad.?
I'm at the drained, dropped pan and filter before proceeding to the next step of assembly and then flushing.
Thanks

 

[phattyduck]

Just a quick question regarding your comment on flushing out the old oil and why it may be bad.?
I'm at the drained, dropped pan and filter before proceeding to the next step of assembly and then flushing.
Thanks

Multiple successive drain and fills (with a pan drop at some point to clean the magnets) is the 'safest' way to service a transmission since it 'slowly' changes the fluid from old to new. It is wasteful though, since on successive drains you are dropping out some of the recently replaced fluid.

If the fluid is in decent shape though, a drain and fill every so often (pick your number, 15k, 30k, whatever.) should be all you need.

When things are bad though, a full fluid exchange (using the cooler lines to pump out fluid from the trans and torque converter) is warranted...

-Charlie