Transmission pan gasket

[cl4Rk]

I was under my truck poking around before ordering parts and supplies to drop my transmission pan and clean the magnets and replace the filter, and I noticed my transmission pan has a rubber gasket instead of Toyota Transmission FIPG.

Does this pretty much guarantee that a previous owner dropped the pan at some point? What does this mean for me?

Which gasket is better and why?

Thanks!


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Just in case this is helpful, these are the part numbers for my 2000 SR-5 4WD:

- Automatic Transmission Filter # 3533060030
- Toyota Transmission FIPG # 0029501281
- Auto Transmission Dipstick Tube O-Ring # 9030109011
- Drain plug gasket # 3517830010

And in case I decide to go with a rubber gasket instead of FIPG:

- Fel-Pro TOS 18685 Automatic Transmission Gasket

 

[Brian.]

Yup, pan has been dropped in the past, and not by a dealer.

When I was gearing up to do this I read all the pros and cons on the forum. It cam down to those who preferred gaskets planned to drop the pan often. those who didn't split into 2 camps, those who Damaged the pan with a gasket (yup, there were a few people who dimpled the pan at the bolts during reassembly) and those who saw the filter was 100% fine after 200~300k miles and didn't see the point in dropping again.

Watch Tim's video and he even says there probably wasn't a point to filter replacement. That was 100% my experience, filter was fine and no plans to go back into the transmission short of an actual failure so FIPG was the best choice for me. I'll do the 10k mile partial drain and fill schedule from here on out so no worries about dropping the pan for any kind of 'flush'.

You'll have to decide for yourself what you want to do. We all have different experiences and come to different conclusions, not really any 1 right answer, just the one you pick.

 

[cl4Rk]

Thanks for your answer. Good info.

there were a few people who dimpled the pan at the bolts during reassembly

I wonder if these people who damaged the pan starting cranking down on the pan bolts thinking the spec was 65 foot-pounds instead of the correct 65 inch-pounds? I guess there's a misprint in the FSM according to mtbtim's video.

 

[Bad Luck]

The rubber gasket guarantees that the pan has been removed at least once. The nice thing about the rubber transmission pan gaskets is you can reuse them as long as they aren't damaged.

 

[mtbtim]

If you do decide to drop the pan, i'd reassemble with the Toyota Red FIPG. The reason why I suggest the FIPG over the rubber gasket is the FIPG can fill any minute imperfections better than any rubber seal can.

Like the people commenting above, it's obvious the pan has been dropped at least once. But, you don't really know why they dropped it and did they replace the filter, did they try to clean it or none of the above. You might want to drop the pan just for peace of mind to see how much metal debris has accumulated on the magnets to give you an idea on the health of your trans, but like I said in my video, replacing these filters is only for situations where the trans fluid was allowed to get black and end up causing sludge deposits that could end up getting trapped in the filter and slowly blocking it up. The trans on my 2000 was taken care of pretty well and when I cut open the filter to expose the entire screen, it was probably 95% unclogged. I'm pretty sure Toyota considers this a lifetime filter.

In the video, I use a pan separation tool but I think a better tool for the job is a thin flexible putty knife to break free the pan from the bottom of the trans. That wedged pan separation tool is thicker than I'd like it to be and you can end up marring the pan or the transmission. A thin flexible putty knife can easily sneak between the trans and the pan, and once it's sunk in, you can move it left and right to start separating the pan from the trans.

That's my two and a half cents on the subject.

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[cl4Rk]

Thanks Tim. I think I will drop the pan just to better understand my current transmission health. The rubber gasket will make dropping the pan easier since I won't need to scrape and clean up the mating surface.

If things look good, then I'll definitely use Toyota FIPG when putting things back together since I wouldn't expect to open it up again until replacing solenoids or something way down the road.

In the video, I use a pan separation tool but I think a better tool for the job is a thin flexible putty knife to break free the pan from the bottom of the trans.

Good tip. I'll keep that in mind if/when I end up needing to drop an FIPG'd pan.

And thanks everyone. I continue to learn so much from this forum!!

 

[brillo_76]

I prefer the feel pro gaskets myself. Nothing wrong with using toyota gasket sealer or silicone rtv. As that's the factory way to do it.

I just prefer a gasket on my atm pan. Makes it faster to reseal the pan without having to clean all the material on the mating surfaces.

So I can drain a gallon of atf. Clean my magnets and replace the screen filter fairly quickly.


I also exchange the fluid by using the cooling lines to exchange the fluid. The output line pumps the fluid out. I use an oil pump to pump the fluid back while the transmission pumps out the old fluid.

I think there is a tread on it. Brillos bucket fluid exchanger. If you want to exchange it that way.

When I change the filter I always exchange the fluid as the fluid gets full of contaminates and the transmissions love clean fresh fluid..

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

 

[cl4Rk]

I also exchange the fluid by using the cooling lines to exchange the fluid.

I'm also going to do this.

Would you recommend doing the DIY fluid exchange before or after replacing the filter?

And would you recommend spacing out the fluid exchange and filter replacement by a certain number of miles? Or can they both be done during the same service session, so to speak?

EDIT: I'm sure I'm overthinking this. But I'm curious and like to know.

Also, I'm a little jumpy about automatic transmissions since my buddy is having to replace his transmission in his 2000 Tundra Limited TRD Off-Road 4x4 at just 100k miles...

 

[Bad Luck]

I'm also going to do this.

Would you recommend doing the DIY fluid exchange before or after replacing the filter?

And would you recommend spacing out the fluid exchange and filter replacement by a certain number of miles? Or can they both be done during the same service session, so to speak?

EDIT: I'm sure I'm overthinking this. But I'm curious and like to know.

Also, I'm a little jumpy about automatic transmissions since my buddy is having to replace his transmission in his 2000 Tundra Limited TRD Off-Road 4x4 at just 100k miles...

I would flush before changing the filter, but I don't think it will really matter in the long run.

As far as flushing vs several drain and fills in my opinion it depends on the current fluid condition. If your current transmission fluid is red or reddish brown and doesn't smell burnt then I would perform a flush. If the fluid is dark or black or smells burnt then I would recommend doing several drain and fills over the course of a few hundred miles between each drain and fill.

This is entirely an opinion based on my own automatic transmission superstitions. Some people believe that once the fluid gets black that you will destroy the transmission by changing the fluid due to all the worn clutch material in the old fluid helping in some way, but I have yet to see any concrete evidence for or against that besides someone's individual experience. But who's to say that the fluid change made the transmission fail sooner and not the damage already done to the clutch material? Like I said there's no concrete evidence saying if you change your burnt black fluid it will cause a transmission failure within 500 miles or whatever.

 

[Brian.]

Would you recommend doing the DIY fluid exchange before or after replacing the filter?

And would you recommend spacing out the fluid exchange and filter replacement by a certain number of miles? Or can they both be done during the same service session, so to speak?

As I think about my own, the fluid was on the red-brown side of things and I had Chunks come out during the DIY bucket flush:

So a flush is probably a good idea no matter what... so long as you're doing at a time when it can be a vehicle down should something in the trans fail after the change. There's no guarantee that some buildup doesn't find its way into an important spot and stop anytime you mess with the fluid. Similarly, I'd do the flush first, then the filter, just incase it catches something (I think I did mine backwards, trying to save a little money/not thinking about it ahead of time).

Worth the risk IMHO, whatever that risk may actually be (more perceived than real?). I've got a magnafine filter on there now, so 10k fluid changes (simple drain and fill) and 30k filter changes ought to be More than enough to keep mine running for longer than I'm capable of safely driving.

 

[mtbtim]

I would flush before changing the filter, but I don't think it will really matter in the long run.

As far as flushing vs several drain and fills in my opinion it depends on the current fluid condition. If your current transmission fluid is red or reddish brown and doesn't smell burnt then I would perform a flush. If the fluid is dark or black or smells burnt then I would recommend doing several drain and fills over the course of a few hundred miles between each drain and fill.

This is entirely an opinion based on my own automatic transmission superstitions. Some people believe that once the fluid gets black that you will destroy the transmission by changing the fluid due to all the worn clutch material in the old fluid helping in some way, but I have yet to see any concrete evidence for or against that besides someone's individual experience. But who's to say that the fluid change made the transmission fail sooner and not the damage already done to the clutch material? Like I said there's no concrete evidence saying if you change your burnt black fluid it will cause a transmission failure within 500 miles or whatever.

At first I definitely bought into the fears of doing a full flush on a clearly abused transmission. Along with the theory that the old fluid is holding suspended clutch (friction) material that is allowing the transmission to shift well and not slip, there's the other theory that the abused transmission has sludge deposits in it. When you flush out the old fluid and replace it with new fluid, that new fluid has excellent detergent qualities. The new fluid acts upon the sludge deposits and breaks some free. Those deposits can then potentially get lodged in fluid passageways like in the valve body and starve part of the transmission of fluid.

There's enough people that have parroted these concerns that it's hard to ignore them, but is it more of an urban legend than fact? I recently shot a video of doing a DIY flush on a Lexus GX470. The fluid was blacker than black. It was in seriously bad shape. We considered doing a series of drain and refills instead of the flush, but with the A750F sealed transmission (no dipstick), a drain of the pan only produces 2 quarts. The system capacity of this trans is 12 quarts. It would take 6+ drain and refills to get the fluid in good shape. So, we rolled the dice and went for the full flush. The end result is the transmission shifted better afterward. My buddy Thanh who's vehicle we did the flush on said there was a sort of shuddering shift between 4th and 5th gears and after the flush that went away. He also said it seemed like the trans overall was shifting better. So, our gamble paid off. Did we get lucky? I don't know.

 

[mtbtim]

As I think about my own, the fluid was on the red-brown side of things and I had Chunks come out during the DIY bucket flush:

So a flush is probably a good idea no matter what... so long as you're doing at a time when it can be a vehicle down should something in the trans fail after the change. There's no guarantee that some buildup doesn't find its way into an important spot and stop anytime you mess with the fluid. Similarly, I'd do the flush first, then the filter, just incase it catches something (I think I did mine backwards, trying to save a little money/not thinking about it ahead of time).

Worth the risk IMHO, whatever that risk may actually be (more perceived than real?). I've got a magnafine filter on there now, so 10k fluid changes (simple drain and fill) and 30k filter changes ought to be More than enough to keep mine running for longer than I'm capable of safely driving.

I also do drain and refills every 10k. I've been suggesting this to people for quite some time now. My reasoning is the old standard use to be to perform a full flush every 30k. On a drain and refill of our transmissions, you get out 4 - 4.5 quarts out. The system capacity is around 12 quarts. So, over a 30k mile period, you've effectively exchanged out the system capacity. Drain and refills are a dilution process but they are VERY effective at keeping the ATF in great shape. At one of my 10k drain and refills, I took a sample and sent it into Blackstone Labs for an analysis. The fluid report came back saying it was in great shape. So, it solidified my theory that regular pan drain and refills can keep your ATF in great shape.

I also use inline Magnefine magnetic filters in both my 3rd Gens. With that extra filtration, you will never have to worry about dropping your pan because you're concerned the trans filter might become clogged. I change out my Magnefine filter every 10k when I do the pan drain and refill. It is definitely overkill, because like you said, those filters are rated to last for 30k miles, but I just do it anyway.

In reality, because drain and refills are so effective, a flush really isn't necessary but there are some instances, like I mentioned about servicing an A750F sealed transmission, that doing drain and refills would take an eternity to get the fluid back in good shape.

 

[Brian.]

I also do drain and refills every 10k.

Lol... Tim, where do you think I came by that opinion? :wave:

 

[cl4Rk]

I'll just leave these here as well:

DIY Fluid Exchange: Transmission Fluid Flush - YouTube

Brillos Bucket Fluid Exchange: Brillos_Bucket_Transmission_Fluid_Exchanger

 

[mtbtim]

Lol... Tim, where do you think I came by that opinion? :wave:

I was thinking you might have gotten it from me because I know you've used my videos but I didn't want to make that assumption because it would sound a little conceited on my part.

 

[Bad Luck]

At first I definitely bought into the fears of doing a full flush on a clearly abused transmission. Along with the theory that the old fluid is holding suspended clutch (friction) material that is allowing the transmission to shift well and not slip, there's the other theory that the abused transmission has sludge deposits in it. When you flush out the old fluid and replace it with new fluid, that new fluid has excellent detergent qualities. The new fluid acts upon the sludge deposits and breaks some free. Those deposits can then potentially get lodged in fluid passageways like in the valve body and starve part of the transmission of fluid.

There's enough people that have parroted these concerns that it's hard to ignore them, but is it more of an urban legend than fact? I recently shot a video of doing a DIY flush on a Lexus GX470. The fluid was blacker than black. It was in seriously bad shape. We considered doing a series of drain and refills instead of the flush, but with the A750F sealed transmission (no dipstick), a drain of the pan only produces 2 quarts. The system capacity of this trans is 12 quarts. It would take 6+ drain and refills to get the fluid in good shape. So, we rolled the dice and went for the full flush. The end result is the transmission shifted better afterward. My buddy Thanh who's vehicle we did the flush on said there was a sort of shuddering shift between 4th and 5th gears and after the flush that went away. He also said it seemed like the trans overall was shifting better. So, our gamble paid off. Did we get lucky? I don't know.

I agree with you there. I wish there was more evidence to support one way or the other, but like you said it's all by word of mouth. No proof one way or the other. I feel like doing the drain and fill for transmissions with black fluid is a good compromise between a full flush and leaving the old fluid in until it dies. That's normally what I suggest for other people to do with their vehicles when it is feasible and realistic (2 quarts at a time would have been insane) more so I can cover my butt in case their transmission does fail. On my own vehicles (they never get that bad to begin with) I feel comfortable in doing a full flush on black and burnt fluid. If the transmission is damaged to the point where new fluid "might" cause it to fail then it was going to fail soon anyways in my opinion. No amount of new fluid is going to bring back the lost clutch material or magically repair a bad bearing.

I wouldn't be surprised if not flushing your transmission because the fluid is black or burnt is for mechanic's to cover their own butt with hardheaded customers that refuse to see the logic that the fluid is that color because you abused your transmission and that abuse caused your transmission failure.

 

[brillo_76]

I'm also going to do this.

Would you recommend doing the DIY fluid exchange before or after replacing the filter?

And would you recommend spacing out the fluid exchange and filter replacement by a certain number of miles? Or can they both be done during the same service session, so to speak?

EDIT: I'm sure I'm overthinking this. But I'm curious and like to know.

Also, I'm a little jumpy about automatic transmissions since my buddy is having to replace his transmission in his 2000 Tundra Limited TRD Off-Road 4x4 at just 100k miles...

I exchange my fluid at the same time I do the filter. I take off the cooling lines at the radiator. I put the new fluid on the one bucket and the other bucket is the old. I pump a gallon back in then fire up the rig so that old fluid is being pumped out when the new is getting pumped back in. A little 12volt oil transfer pump works great for pumping the new fluid in.

By using clear hoses and translucent graduated buckets. You can see how much comes out and goes in.

You can even see when the new fluid hits the old fluid bucket to stop and hook things back up so you can verify the level is good.

However, this is how I do it. Others just do the spill and fill the pan method and that works as well.

Its really close to 3 gallons of fluid to exchange it.


On the 100K tundra transmission issue. Something is wrong or went wrong. Mostly Toyota Transmissions can fail around 200K if nothing was done and the filter plugs up burning out the bands and clutches then they scatter from what I observed over the years. :-(

 

[cl4Rk]

On the 100K tundra transmission issue. Something is wrong or went wrong. Mostly Toyota Transmissions can fail around 200K if nothing was done and the filter plugs up burning out the bands and clutches then they scatter from what I observed over the years. :-(

Yeah he’s getting a P0715 and P0770 along with noises, grinding, hard shifts, gear hunting.

Codes for Shift solenoid E and Transmission input/turbine speed sensor malfunction.

A local mechanic thinks he needs a replacement.

 

[brillo_76]

Yeah he’s getting a P0715 and P0770 along with noises, grinding, hard shifts, gear hunting.

Codes for Shift solenoid E and Transmission input/turbine speed sensor malfunction.

A local mechanic thinks he needs a replacement.

Oh. Yep. Major issues. Needs a transmission expert or a replacement. I really haven't heard of the Tundra or tocuma transmissions failing in 100k. That's on the more odd side..

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

 

[cl4Rk]

Oh. Yep. Major issues. Needs a transmission expert or a replacement. I really haven't heard of the Tundra or tocuma transmissions failing in 100k. That's on the more odd side..

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

Just shedding some more light on his transmission troubles:

He was just able to piece enough info together from some invoices/receipts and chatting with the previous owner, that the Tundra almost certainly experienced Pink Milkshake about 40k miles ago...

He's guessing that the previous owner didn't really understand what had happened, had a shop look at it, and the shop flushed the transmission and replaced the radiator and called it a day.

Seems like the previous owner just drove the truck without much understanding of the truck's idiosyncrasies, getting it serviced when he noticed any symptoms, and then just sold it before it hit 100k miles, like a lot of people do with any type of vehicle.

Interesting it took about 40k miles for trouble to set in...

And my previous statement about his mileage was incorrect: he bought the truck at about 100k miles, and has added about 40k miles since he bought it. So this transmission failure is happening at 140k miles.