Trick to installing front ARB Lockers?

[cadrummo]

Hey all. So I just had professionally installed front and rear ARB lockers on my 2001 Sport Edition. The shop I went to was recommended and to be fair their customer service has been great. The problem is the install. The front diff, after regearing to 4.56, and installing the ARB, has not maintained a seal and is leaking everywhere.

I've returned to the shop I installed twice now and this last time they said the ARB locker, installed in the 2001, has to have some sort of offset to ensure proper sealing of the case. Has anyone ever heard of this or experienced this? At this point I'm going back in again for the fourth time to this shop and I'm bout to lose what is left of my hair. Thoughts?

Collectively, this group has provided the best info to answer all my past questions before even having to ask. Please help.

 

[MandAtaco]

So it's leaking were the case halves go together? That seems like something they would have noticed when they were dry fitting/setting up the gears. As long as it goes together smooth, a simple coating of RTV would suffice to keep it together. I've seen the CV seals leak after an ARB install.

 

[cadrummo]

Yeah I would have thought the same thing but I figured these guys would have known what they were doing. The last time I took it in they said they had ARB on the line and ARB even said it was a rare occurrence of something like this. Of course they are going to say that, I just know I'm taking this thing back into them Monday and they were already pretty defeated the last time I left. I'd love to have a better game plan for them.

 

[Toy2play]

Yeah I would have thought the same thing but I figured these guys would have known what they were doing. The last time I took it in they said they had ARB on the line and ARB even said it was a rare occurrence of something like this. Of course they are going to say that, I just know I'm taking this thing back into them Monday and they were already pretty defeated the last time I left. I'd love to have a better game plan for them.

Interesting, I just received mine back with 4.88 gears and ARB installed in the front. Is it the RD90? Mine is a 97 and I do not have any leaks on mine. I can see the remains of some kind of sealant they used on both front and rear. I assume it's the exact same install process. Does anything look like it's damaged from the outside? All bolts there, tightened, nothing striped? It's certain it is the halves that is leaking and not the fittings they drilled into the diff?

Only problem with mine is they drilled the bulk fitting in the wrong place and was coming out into the oil pan, I had to install a diff drop to rotate the diff and made it barely work. They tried to play it off that they installed it per instructions. There was no way I could get a lined hooked up being how they installed it.

 

[cadrummo]

Interesting, I just received mine back with 4.88 gears and ARB installed in the front. Is it the RD90? Mine is a 97 and I do not have any leaks on mine. I can see the remains of some kind of sealant they used on both front and rear. I assume it's the exact same install process. Does anything look like it's damaged from the outside? All bolts there, tightened, nothing striped? It's certain it is the halves that is leaking and not the fittings they drilled into the diff?

Only problem with mine is they drilled the bulk fitting in the wrong place and was coming out into the oil pan, I had to install a diff drop to rotate the diff and made it barely work. They tried to play it off that they installed it per instructions. There was no way I could get a lined hooked up being how they installed it.

Thanks for the response Toy. It's still too wet to ascertain where the leak originated from. Being their forth try at this thing, my confidence in them getting it done isn't the best. Who did yours? I'll call them Monday and see if they have run into this before. Thanks again for the help.

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[Gadgetguy]

ARB, hmmm. Been in business a LONG time. They design things to take hardcore abuse offroad all day long. I have a feeling deep in my heart that they wouldn't be willing to accept the headache of allowing a product to hit the market that would cause them problems.

my .02

I highly doubt that it's due to the locker. Not every shop on the planet is super familiar with doing that type of work, especially on an IFS front diff. I bet if it was an old solid Toyota 8" axle they would have done fine.

 

[Toy2play]

Thanks for the response Toy. It's still too wet to ascertain where the leak originated from. Being their forth try at this thing, my confidence in them getting it done isn't the best. Who did yours? I'll call them Monday and see if they have run into this before. Thanks again for the help.

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A local guy in Utah. He warned me twice about installing one in the front end, saying it's too weak. I told him I'm well aware of the situation. Being that he tapped in the wrong spot I doubt he has installed many ARB in the toyota 7.5 diff. It is possible where the air line comes out the dif, the o-ring can create a leak. The ARB instructions said when plumbing the air line not to over torque the nut going into the bulk fitting, that it can create a leak. If you can, I would check to see where it is leaking from. Though they should have already determined where the leak is if they can seen it back so many times. I wonder if they striped or broke a bolt and now it's leaking from there. As someone stated before, it could leak where the CV axles go in. How bad of a leak is it? Is there a pool of gear oil on the ground?

The same guy installed my rear ARB last year without any issues.

ARB, hmmm. Been in business a LONG time. They design things to take hardcore abuse offroad all day long. I have a feeling deep in my heart that they wouldn't be willing to accept the headache of allowing a product to hit the market that would cause them problems.

my .02

I highly doubt that it's due to the locker. Not every shop on the planet is super familiar with doing that type of work, especially on an IFS front diff. I bet if it was an old solid Toyota 8" axle they would have done fine.

I agree with you. I don't think a lot of people install ARB in the toy 7.5 compared to the 8".

 

[cadrummo]

Gadget, I have a feeling you are right. That's the hardest part, as now I know I have to take it somewhere else as I've lost confidence in them for sure. They did let me know after the second leak that this was something they hadn't run into before, so looking back I should have cut my loses then.

Toy, the leak is everywhere. All under the undercarriage and skids and pooling under the diff. I've reached out to ARB to see if they can shed some light on this as well. At least refer me to a good shop here in Phoenix. I'll let you know how it shakes out. Thanks both for your help!

 

[MandAtaco]

I actually think the ARB locker makes the front diff stronger, well the carrier anyway. In my experience, the CV shafts is what you'll break.

Clean everything up really well, and then watch it real close to see where the mess is coming from. Pin point it down exactly.

 

[Toy2play]

I actually think the ARB locker makes the front diff stronger, well the carrier anyway. In my experience, the CV shafts is what you'll break.

Clean everything up really well, and then watch it real close to see where the mess is coming from. Pin point it down exactly.

I agree, and from what I researched this is the same conclusion. Just testing it on dirt I can see why it's not a good idea to turn your wheel much when your locked. You can feel the tension when you try to turn slightly. Only reason I put a locker in the front was for unexpected terrain on back roads. My runner is mainly for overlanding type stuff and I doubt I will use the front locker much. Since I was going to regear, might as well install it. It's nice to have it so if I want the option to go slow up off chamber type terrain, it's there.

 

[the great him]

i both installed my RD90(ARB air locker for 7.5" toyota clam shell) and my 488 gears -as well as the rear locker and gears. and i can assure you that this is an error in the installers work. they locker fits perfectly in the housing, and was no an issue. there could be an issue if say they did not get the bearings seated all the way or the races installed all the way, or they did not prep the clam shell properly before reassembling... but no the locker or gears should not prevent the two halfs from matting correctly and creating a good seal (with a small amount of RTV) i have had mine in for over a year, several wheeling trips and long road trips and daily driving with no issues or fluid loss. shops fault bottom line, find a new shop and make the old shop pay.

and yes the ARB rd90 makes the front toyota diff stronger, that clam shell wont break unless you blow up the truck with explosives or hit the diff on a rock at 40mph direct impact...

 

[cadrummo]

Thanks MandA and Great. I'm hoping to experience that front diff strength soon. I appreciate your guys' feedback. Somewhat on topic, what do you guys think I should ask for from the shop that did the work if they can't fix it?

Should I ask them to reimburse me for the cost of the front install? All in, I'm at like $4200, but that was for the dual compressor, both lockers and 4.56 upgrade. Thoughts?

 

[Toy2play]

Thanks MandA and Great. I'm hoping to experience that front diff strength soon. I appreciate your guys' feedback. Somewhat on topic, what do you guys think I should ask for from the shop that did the work if they can't fix it?

Should I ask them to reimburse me for the cost of the front install? All in, I'm at like $4200, but that was for the dual compressor, both lockers and 4.56 upgrade. Thoughts?

Just be very careful when turning while locked. In fact if you can get away without turning while locked, you should be just fine. It's not ARB's fault it's leaking, the RD90 works for all 3rd gens and there are numerous people who have them installed with no problems. Imo, I would want them to fix it whether they do it themselves or have someone else look at it. Did you buy all the parts from them? They can't seem to fix it though, so worst case I would ask for a refund on the install. It would be nice to know exactly where it is leaking from.

 

[cadrummo]

I got it cleaned up and weathered the 120F garage to take the skid off and find the leak. Photos and a quick video are in the Dropbox. Something doesn't look right and am eager to see what those of you that have done this job think about the gap where it is leaking.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/npnhqmuc1d4alim/AABZxchPcUMvMdoxnBpDy9XYa?dl=0

https://docs.google.com/presentatio...dCG5s/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000

 

[the great him]

I got it cleaned up and weathered the 120F garage to take the skid off and find the leak. Photos and a quick video are in the Dropbox. Something doesn't look right and am eager to see what those of you that have done this job think about the gap where it is leaking.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/npnhqmuc1d4alim/AABZxchPcUMvMdoxnBpDy9XYa?dl=0

https://docs.google.com/presentatio...dCG5s/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000

ok so that is from a CV axle not seating all the way... that is deffiantly the shops fualt. they need to smack that shit in there good untill there is a good solid thud. if not or that can not be done then you have a bad CV axle and need to get a new one. you could always try swapping CVs from side to side, and see if the issue fallows the CV axle, then you would know that CV is wrong. it might be too long or a poor manufacturing quality control issue -like the snap ring grove was put in the wrong location, or the shaft itself is too long, but i highly doubt that. i think the shop simply didnt put enough beef on the axle when reinstalling it. -they should not have to tear down the diff, and if they want to imidiatly pull your truck from the shop and take it to Hector down on the corner and let him do it... this is basic mechanical stuff, the more i see this and think about it im scared of your gears of the patter and how careful the guy was with the runout and backlash ect...

if the guy cant figure it out id either demand that he/they give you a full refund on the front diff labor, or they pay for another shop to do it. at $4200 thats insane, you could of had Just Differentials or ECGS do that for you and had it right the first time. -honestly id be pushing for a refund and then id pull the wheel myself and take the nut off the end of the CV and beat it in with a 3lb sledge in my driveway and pocket the money. -even if you do have to go buy two new CV axles, youd still be ahead.

 

[Toy2play]

ok so that is from a CV axle not seating all the way... that is deffiantly the shops fualt. they need to smack that shit in there good untill there is a good solid thud. if not or that can not be done then you have a bad CV axle and need to get a new one. you could always try swapping CVs from side to side, and see if the issue fallows the CV axle, then you would know that CV is wrong. it might be too long or a poor manufacturing quality control issue -like the snap ring grove was put in the wrong location, or the shaft itself is too long, but i highly doubt that. i think the shop simply didnt put enough beef on the axle when reinstalling it. -they should not have to tear down the diff, and if they want to imidiatly pull your truck from the shop and take it to Hector down on the corner and let him do it... this is basic mechanical stuff, the more i see this and think about it im scared of your gears of the patter and how careful the guy was with the runout and backlash ect...

if the guy cant figure it out id either demand that he/they give you a full refund on the front diff labor, or they pay for another shop to do it. at $4200 thats insane, you could of had Just Differentials or ECGS do that for you and had it right the first time. -honestly id be pushing for a refund and then id pull the wheel myself and take the nut off the end of the CV and beat it in with a 3lb sledge in my driveway and pocket the money. -even if you do have to go buy two new CV axles, youd still be ahead.

Is there anything internally that could be preventing the CV from going in all of the way, or maybe they broke damaged the seal? I have my doubts about something wrong with the CV if it wasnt leaking before. Good advice though. I'm wondering why the shop hasnt already tried to sledge it. I'm betting they installed something wrong. Might be better to have someone else to look at it and give you a straight answer OP.

Keep us posted OP.

 

[the great him]

That gold ring that you can see should be seated flush into the diff... That CV is clearly not seated all the way in. Anything is possible especially given the elementary level of this problem to a supposed mechanic/tech who has "done several gears"... Yeah I'm guessing he's not as good as he says he is.

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[Toy2play]

I got it cleaned up and weathered the 120F garage to take the skid off and find the leak. Photos and a quick video are in the Dropbox. Something doesn't look right and am eager to see what those of you that have done this job think about the gap where it is leaking.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/npnhqmuc1d4alim/AABZxchPcUMvMdoxnBpDy9XYa?dl=0

https://docs.google.com/presentatio...dCG5s/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000

Here's a picture of mine to compare. Dont mind the grease in the background, it's from changing the oil.

 

[MandAtaco]

That at least makes more since than the case leaking.

Now, there have been issues with ARB front lockers and the CV not seating all the way. Had something to do with steeper gears if I remember right.
I didn't read the whole thread, but here is what I'm talking about....
ARB RD-90 Install questions - Expedition Portal

 

[cadrummo]

That at least makes more since than the case leaking.

Now, there have been issues with ARB front lockers and the CV not seating all the way. Had something to do with steeper gears if I remember right.
I didn't read the whole thread, but here is what I'm talking about....
ARB RD-90 Install questions - Expedition Portal

Thanks MandA. I had a couple additional people help with feedback, both ZUK at gearinstalls.com and Steve at Sonoran Steel had the same thing to say. The shop spoke to ZUK today and it looks like that thread you posted is exactly what I'm running into. I guess the ARB locker is "universal" for the 7.5 and 8 and unfortunately, in my model, can produce the play that we are experiencing. I should have the rig back tomorrow and, fingers crossed, everything stays together this time.

It's shocking as this seems to be more common place than I would have thought considering ARB's reputation. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks all for your help. You guys rock!