jam23r1
New member
this Camburg Ball Joint UCA's
VS these Total Chaos UCAs 05+ Tacoma, 07+ FJ Cruiser, 03+ 4Runner
just need some info
VS these Total Chaos UCAs 05+ Tacoma, 07+ FJ Cruiser, 03+ 4Runner
just need some info
UCA's
- Thread starter jam23r1
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eddiebx
New member
The camburg one uses your current BJ from the factory UCA, probably offering much better longevity and less maintenance compared to the TC uni-balls. On the other hand the TC uni-ball will allow for a lot more articulation than the factory BJ (I think), and probably way stronger.
If you're not running long travel up front, the extra articulation might just be a waste since you'll never push the camburg UCA past the max anyways. But I suppose if you want to go with the strongest option, a uni-ball is a better bet, but will require more upkeep than factory style ball joints.
Decisions, decisions...
If you're not running long travel up front, the extra articulation might just be a waste since you'll never push the camburg UCA past the max anyways. But I suppose if you want to go with the strongest option, a uni-ball is a better bet, but will require more upkeep than factory style ball joints.
Decisions, decisions...
jam23r1
New member
The camburg one uses your current BJ from the factory UCA, probably offering much better longevity and less maintenance compared to the TC uni-balls. On the other hand the TC uni-ball will allow for a lot more articulation than the factory BJ (I think), and probably way stronger.
If you're not running long travel up front, the extra articulation might just be a waste since you'll never push the camburg UCA past the max anyways. But I suppose if you want to go with the strongest option, a uni-ball is a better bet, but will require more upkeep than factory style ball joints.
Decisions, decisions...
thanks I a have 3'' lift. what I'm asking is the benefit of the on one over the other
limamike
New member
I think he gave you the pros and cons of both. TC = more articulation but more maintenance; Camburg = less articulation and less maintenance.
eddiebx
New member
I thought I just gave you the benefits of one over the other, lol.
I am not a suspension expert by any means, but I don't think it matters how high you lift it...I think the main thing here that might require more articulation in the UCA is if you go with something that increase the actual down travel by a significant amount. If you are running the toytec liftlisted in your sig, I think those just use bilstein 5100s which do not result in any extreme amount of extra down travel, so I think the camburgs will likely be more than enough. I think, the shock would be the limiting factor so any UCA would do just fine.
What I meant by longer travel is something like Metal Tech's LT kits, that greatly increase the down travel and a ball joint UCA might end up being the limiting factor. This is where something with great articulation such as the TC's uni-ball would come in handy and actually be beneficial.
The camburgs are better than the TCs because have a sealed ball joint which are low maintenance and probably will last a lot longer between rebuilds. On the other hand, the TCs are better than the camburgs because they are stronger and more robust due to the uni-ball design.
If you plan to wheel the crap out of your truck, and don't mind more frequent maintenance and replacement intervals of the uni-balls, then the TCs might be better for you? :noidea:
DannyLlama
Elite Member
Good info !!
You know what I like about you Eddie, is you always have good input, never defensive and never have a sarcastic/dickhead response! Good man :cheers:
Intruder
New member
If the differences in articulation are not going to be a factor (extended travel or long travel shocks) then look at the maintenance and replacement differences. How much is a replacement OEM ball joint vs a replacement uniball? How easy is it to replace the ball joint compared to a uniball? How much are replacement bushings for each and how easy are they to replace? Are there differences in caster and camber adjustment angles built in that will make it easier to get a proper alignment? Uniballs will squeak after a while and may require more maintenance. The ball joint is going to be a little easier to replace, but I know people who've replaced their uniballs without taking the arm off the truck.
From wheeling my TC UCAs for the first time last night I know that in addition to the extra travel over my old UCAs that they also travel easier, like buttah. Personally, I looked at the pros and cons of uniball vs ball joint and the uniball was the right option for me. If you think that you may at some point go to long travel, then you definitely want to go with the TCs.
From wheeling my TC UCAs for the first time last night I know that in addition to the extra travel over my old UCAs that they also travel easier, like buttah. Personally, I looked at the pros and cons of uniball vs ball joint and the uniball was the right option for me. If you think that you may at some point go to long travel, then you definitely want to go with the TCs.
SOcalTRAIL
New member
If you are gonna spend the money and time to replace your arms, go with a uni ball arm and never look back. My flavored of choice, icon or total chaos. Avoid Light Racing, a search will show why. All of the facts and opinions stated above are right on except one thing... I think uni balls get a bad rep due to past history. I remember the uni's I had on a Tacoma 10 years ago... They rusted, they squeaked, and just plain sucked. Now days the bearing technology has improved with nice long lasting Kevlar / Teflon liners, stainless steel balls and housings... Good stuff. I've had the total chaos uni ball arms on my rig for 60k miles and the maintenance consists of a couple drops of tri flow Teflon lube every 10k miles... They don't squeak or do anything, they just take a serious beating and keep on keepin' on.
1engineer
Moderator
"Unlike some people we know" I say to myself as I look into mirror. No really, [MENTION=85512]eddiebx[/MENTION] is the definition of a good guy. If he ever comes down beers are in order.
eddiebx
New member
Excellent point about improvement in technology these days, last time I ran spherical joints on a suspension was over 10 years ago and just a plain old pair of heim joints, absolute nightmare. Needless to say never wanted any spherical joint on a daily driver after that.
You ppl are making me want to jump ship on my LR UCAs even though I have zero problems with them so far, albeit I've only had them on for a couple of months. The shitty part is I decided on the LR UCA for the low maintenance durability of a sealed ball joint, but at this point if I am having to replace the ball joint more frequently out of paranoia, I might as well have just went with the uni-ball design from the get go! At 60-70 bucks a pop for a replacement LR balljoint (x2), I'd be at the price of the TC arms in no time
DannyLlama
Elite Member
SOcalTRAIL
New member
Excellent point about improvement in technology these days, last time I ran spherical joints on a suspension was over 10 years ago and just a plain old pair of heim joints, absolute nightmare. Needless to say never wanted any spherical joint on a daily driver after that.
You ppl are making me want to jump ship on my LR UCAs even though I have zero problems with them so far, albeit I've only had them on for a couple of months. The shitty part is I decided on the LR UCA for the low maintenance durability of a sealed ball joint, but at this point if I am having to replace the ball joint more frequently out of paranoia, I might as well have just went with the uni-ball design from the get go! At 60-70 bucks a pop for a replacement LR balljoint (x2), I'd be at the price of the TC arms in no time
Just the two experiences I had with friend's LR arms put a bad taste in my mouth, especially since the failures were exactly the same, but I guess everything has the potential to fail. The nice thing about uni-balls is would take an act of God to get them to catastrophically fail, meaning come apart simply due to the design. I will never forget a time back in college when a buddy brought a brand new Chevy Silverado over to my house to help him with a lift kit install. I slid the pickle fork between the spindle and upper ball joint, gave it a decent whack with a regular framing hammer and, well.... the whole ball portion came out of the joint... Talk about catastrophic failure. Luckily the lift kit we install included new upper arms with uni's.
I am absolutely amazed at how well these uni balls have lasted. I plan on replacing them at 100k just for the heck of it, but i really wonder how long they will go.
eddiebx
New member
After reading about those weld failures at the bushings, and then this one about the ball joint popping out: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/153280-light-racing-uca-ball-joints.html#post1518919
Needless to say I am just a bit paranoid, especially since [MENTION=92283]Int[/MENTION]rude said he regular inspected his ball joints!
After the winter is over, I'm going to give a through inspection and decide then. Though I don't wheel hard, a catastrophic failure of these critical suspension component is something I'd really really like to avoid at all costs. Especially because failure of the UCAs can cost a lot more in repair bills than even the priciest UCA out there, lol.
Intruder
New member
The mistake I made was only visually inspecting the boots. They looked fine but they had actually torn just below the top ring that holds them on. They had torn right below that ring and looked fine when they were at rest. Grab the boot and see if it pulls down to make sure it isn't torn. The LR UCAs are an affordable option, but when I look at it the ball joint failure resulted in about $1000 in replacement parts alone - CV axle, skid control sensor wire, inner tie rod - and I was lucky enough to be going very slow when it failed. The ball joints on the LR UCAs are very easy to replace, but the bushings are a different story from what I've been told.
eddiebx
New member
That right there is what makes me start thinking "pricier" UCAs are not so bad after all, lol.
The ball joints are definitely easy to replace, but after researching a lot of the failures on the internet, I'm starting to wonder if it's just a design flaw that makes the boots rip prematurely; thus causing ball joint failure from dirt. On some failure pictures I've seen on the internet, it almost looks like the boot is getting "stuck" to the spindle. Compound that with turning the wheel left and right, you can imagine how much tension the boot is under if both ends of the boot are stuck in place. I saw one picture which pretty much looked like it was torn from those kind of torsional forces. I've spray on some dry lube on the spindle surface in hopes of allowing the rubber boot to glide easier while you turn, but only time will tell how that's holding up.
The new spec ride style bushing should be much easier to replace. I think the people having trouble are the ones trying to go from the old bonded rubber bushing, to the new spec ride bushing. That's quite a chore. The only hard part about installing the spec ride bushing is trying to shove the whole thing in since it's one piece.
For those of you reading, please note that I am in no way trying to bash LR, from what I understand they are still a stand up company and customer service is top notch. Just sharing my uneasy feelings about them, that's all