goro
New member
The bottom cover of the joint itself is 555 as well, for what it's worth.
Unboxing: Raybestos Pro-Grade LBJs
- Thread starter chadsy
- Start date
The bottom cover of the joint itself is 555 as well, for what it's worth.
Mine aren't in the trash.
I always get a kick out of the "buy OEM, its the only way to go" mentality when this 3rd gen section is chock full of ways owners have made improvements to their vehicles over what the engineers decided was "acceptable" to let it off the line.
shadow247
New member
Running ACDelco brand ball-joints here. They looked and felt identical to the OEM ball joints. I now have just over 13k miles on them, with about a dozen trips to the beach, and they are showing no signs of wear. I inspect them every oil change and they seem to be holding up fine. The OEM joints are just as prone to failure as any other. It's all about inspecting them and replacing them when worn.
There is no doubt that some aftermarket parts are better than OEM, such as suspension parts, lights, brakes, tires, etc. However, there are also alot of mission critical parts such as seals, joints, steering components in which OEM is known to be stronger just due to the better engineering involved. This isn't necessarily true with all manufacturers, but in most cases it is true with Toyota parts.
In the case of these ball joints (which there is always heavy debate on), most people will likely not have a problem with aftermarket joints, but there also seems to be a trend in which quite a few users are reporting that they don't last very long.
I would not hesitate to buy an aftermarket part if atleast there was some evidence that they were designed well, but the fact of the matter is I've taken apart a few aftermarket LBJs in comparison to the OEM ones and it was clear that the aftermarket NAPA/Raybestos/Sankei 555 were all pretty much from the same manufacturer utilizing poorer grade of material in the joint and not having a polished stud like the OEM joint.
BrianSD_42
New member
Yeah ... This statement is totally wrong. No offense of course but you're just incorrect.
The reason why some of us are anti-Moog is because we remember the multiple threads where some guy installed cheap after marker LBJs and those same parts failed in less than 18 months.
OEM ball joints do not fail after 18 months. Quite the contrary they nearly alway last 10+ years at the minimum.
There are NO "my OEM ball joint failed at 18 months" threads out there BUT we DO have multiple "my aftermarket LBJ failed / deteriorated after 18 months" threads on this site.
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BrianSD_42
New member
For what it's worth this guy nobb tested both Raybestos and Moog.
He found that the Rs were much better quality and did not have the issues he encountered with Moog.
He found that the Rs were much better quality and did not have the issues he encountered with Moog.
Thanks. Im sure Raybestos does design good joints. Im using upper Raybestos joints, which have a smooth polished stud and appear to have quality similar material to that of an OEM joint. But it was clear to me when I looked at the Raybestos branded lower joint that it was of inferior quality compared to OEM and they must have just rebranded it from some other manufacturer. I suspect Sankei actually manufactures most of these lower joints, and they get rebranded to distributors like Raybestos, NAPA, Moog, etc...
It is a bit sad to say that I did spend alot of time researching this and making comparisons :redface:
nevada
Senior Member
when did moog become bottom tier stuff?
we use a lot of different parts here, mostly people are friggin CHEAP, so thats what we end up using.
but, we havent really noticed any specific brand failing more than others, well, except OEM. most of the balljoints we change are the factory part, that has failed WAY early in most cases.
i dont know of any failures of any aftermarkets.
this ofcourse is not exclusive to toyotas, but just in general.
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KidVermicious
New member
It's not. Every Moog part I've put on either of my 1st gens has been stamped 555.
inthepipe5by5
New member
Moog became bottom tier stuff since their components started failing sporadically, usually within an unreasonably short timespan (around 3 years or less). I've used Moog parts on my Jeeps- XJ, ZJ, WJ and have had results across the board, some are still going strong after 5 years, some failed after 8 months. Specifically for Toyotas and T4Rs, I have no experience with using these components.
I do however know that I've not come across a failed OEM suspension component for this specific application, or at least one that did not prematurely fail due to extreme stress or accident ( LBJ recall not included - although I have never witnessed one myself, they have been well documented).
Point is, including other brand OEMs like you and I just did actually dilutes the data since brands like Jeep, Dodge are known to have problems (all 3 of mine did, and I'm sure I wasn't alone in that regard). Toyotas, especially Japanese manufactured ones are less likely to experience this type of failure so early on with the exception of additional exposure to extreme stress.
I agree with the cheap thing... it's even more so here.
BrianSD_42
New member
I don't think it "just became" bottom end stuff.
As I mentioned earlier NAPA sells Moog parts as their "low end" line of parts. I heard that directly from the Napa sales DM for San Diego.
And to everyone saying "well OEM fails too" ---- Yes BUT OEM lasts at least 10 years. These low end parts have been known on this forum to fail at < 18 months.
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nevada
Senior Member
perhaps.
but MOOG used to be HIGH end parts. if they arent anymore, something changed.
also, napa owns moog? they are sold everywhere...
Just to clarify, Napa does not own Moog. Moog is owned by Federal-Mogul.
This about the time Moog went to crap (Taken from Federal-Mogul Wikipedia)
In June 2010, Federal-Mogul expanded further into Asia by opening a headquarters and technical center in Shanghai, China.[14] The Asia Pacific headquarters and technical center facility contains powertrain dynamometers and vehicle braking test cells among other processes.[14] The location allows for increased technical support to powertrain and vehicle customers as well as technology development.[14]
There is enough meat in the BJ that they will likely fail before they rust through.
I would be interested in seeing some of your findings, if you have them documented somewhere.
How did you determine the "poorer grade of material?"
What part of the stud are you talking about in regards to polished? The tapered part, the ball and socket?
This is my major point of thinking... 99% of the LBJ failures I've seen were on trucks with lifts or running larger tires. My truck doesn't see anything put pavement and I bet I'll be just fine with the Raybestos/Napa premium.
BrianSD_42
New member
It could also be said that 99% of trucks that suffered an LBJ failure [mentioned on T4R] either:
1) had OEM LBJs that were over 10 years or 150k miles OLD. (Note: the age)
Or
2) had aftermarket less than 18 months old
I don't think the tires were a factor as much as the 10+ years of wear and tear.
OP, your R LBJs may work out fine. Please keep us informed with yearly updates.
