Uncool Coolant Flush / Thermostat Screwup

[hour]

Did a bunch of searching but I kind of screwed myself here so I'm hoping for some fresh input. Just under 248k, bought at 243k.

Truck has always hit 212*F in traffic (and gunning on interstate), winter and even on the 90* days we've had this spring already. So I was thinking old fluid or thermostat installed upside down, something like that. The previous owner had put green in.

Anyway, picked up OEM thermostat and gasket, drained, ran distilled, drained, ran distilled again, drained clear. I should have tried the thermostat after the first drain but wanted to install it after flushing out the gunk, so I was just opening the petcock and yanking lower radiator hose. Anyway, one of the thermostat bolts started to round so I said screw it, at least I'll have new coolant!

Filled with Zerex red coolant, bled in my driveway, went for a spin. It definitely ran cooler around town, like 204* instead of its typical 212, but after I hit the interstate and gave it some gas I was at 213, then traffic got me to 215, then moments later as I was pulling over at autozone 217*.

Rebled on the curb at autozone for a long while, heat blasting inside, occasionally squeezing the radiator hose. Drove again, same result of 217* and overflowing reservoir. Rebled for 30 minutes on another curb, radiator definitely wasn't taking anymore. Heat blows scorching inside, no water or trickling noises, doesn't have any symptoms of fan clutch that I've read about. Hit same temperature on way home.

Assuming the thermostat is clogged now and I'd really like to yank it like I had planned, I'm okay-ish with losing all of my new $$$ coolant but getting that damn bolt off is the biggest challenge. Any tips on removing it? I have so little room to work with back there which probably contributed to me starting to round it in the first place due to bad angle. Any suggestions/consolation appreciated, I just mucked up a simple task :tape2:

 

[amalik]

Why go with Zerex over Toyota Red? I did read TheDurk state you could run it for a lot longer than Toyota red, but meh -- I prefer Toyota Red and more frequent drain/fills. I do think it's nice the Zerex comes pre-mixed though, takes the task out of having to mix your own distilled/Toyota Red.

In terms of the bolts... maybe you need more room? i.e. take the radiator out? (Makes the job 2x more of a PITA).

 

[TheDurk]

Why go with Zerex over Toyota Red? I did read TheDurk state you could run it for a lot longer than Toyota red, but meh -- I prefer Toyota Red and more frequent drain/fills. I do think it's nice the Zerex comes pre-mixed though, takes the task out of having to mix your own distilled/Toyota Red.

In terms of the bolts... maybe you need more room? i.e. take the radiator out? (Makes the job 2x more of a PITA).

I don't think I said that. As a clone of Toyita pink, the p-HOAT technology in both is rated for longer than the OAT of Toyota Red in new cars, but I'd say 50k is pretty much the max for all three in our aging trucks.

I'm getting close to 50k on my Red; I'm planning to send it off to Blackstone just to see what they have to say. At current pricing levels, I think Red is the best bet if you can get a decent price. The Zerex price got bumped bigtime recently, it was only $11 when it came out.

 

[nissanh]

How old is the radiator? I think your problem is with the radiator. After draining the coolant, check the top coolant running tubes inside the radiator. I bet those are clogged with sediment. Coolant color is irrelevant with the temperature it is reaching. I have prestone coolant and no problem with the temp.

One more thing. What is the distilled water to coolant ratio you used?

 

[amalik]

It could be the radiator itself, but also keep in mind OP's T-stat could still be set to the 12-oclock Jiggle valve instead of 6-oclock.... which would contribute to 10-12 degrees higher temp even with new coolant. The whole point of his job was to get the old one out, which hasn't happened yet.

 

[hour]

At current pricing levels, I think Red is the best bet if you can get a decent price. The Zerex price got bumped bigtime recently, it was only $11 when it came out.

Eh, I paid $14 with free shipping from Amazon. It was actually pretty convenient, I got 6 qts of Mobil 1 synthetic 75w90 too at the same time, free shipping. The prices were less than $1 more than I was seeing at Napa/auto stores, so I just went for it. My main objective was to get some fresh coolant in there instead of the unknown mileage stuff in there, thinking it may be contributing to my higher temps in addition to questionable thermostat.

Running Toyota's pink premixed would have been an additional $36, and running the red and diluting myself would have been even more.

How old is the radiator? I think your problem is with the radiator.
One more thing. What is the distilled water to coolant ratio you used?

Zerex comes prediluted 50/50. No clue how many miles are on the radiator and to be honest, I didn't really see much sediment at all in the first drain (nor repeated flushes). The first drain the color was kind of murky but still had some obvious glowing green, second flush was very green, third was clear. I'll probably replace the radiator tomorrow if I can score one locally with acceptable reviews on here, free up some room to get to the thermostat too I suppose.

Only thing that sucks about that is my transmission cooler is held in with the uber zip ties included with the b&m kit. I guess I'll have to chop those off if I do radiator, I tossed the hard mounts, and so I'll have no good way of re-securing it.

It could be the radiator itself, but also keep in mind OP's T-stat could still be set to the 12-oclock Jiggle valve instead of 6-oclock.... which would contribute to 10-12 degrees higher temp even with new coolant. The whole point of his job was to get the old one out, which hasn't happened yet.

Yeah, I figured that a) the thermostat was aftermarket or upside down, and b) that the old coolant may be contributing to poor cooling. Either way the plan was to knock out both of these variables and start enjoying normal temps. I gotta get this done before Moab for obvious reasons there, but also the path to get there involves ascending over 5,000 feet over I-70. Even in the winter I was still staying at 212*F during 45 minutes of high revving, but now I'll be a boiling mess if I try it. Dammit, I had more important things to do this weekend for the runner (errr brakes, not to mention CB and lighting, solar panel, yadaya) and now I'll have day 2 of a simple radiator flush :blabla:

First I have to free up some buckets by dumping out all the old coolant I caught back in to some jugs, then I'll drain and catch the new good stuff in effort to salvage, source a radiator, yank that bitty, get a 6 point socket for the rounding bolt, butane torch it, try again (and hopefully succeed), install new radiator and refill.

In a nutshell, even if the new coolant had allowed me to average a single degree cooler and not posed overheating problems, I'd probably hold off on doing the above for a couple months. Just sucks that it DID seem to help knock several degrees off temps, but just spirals out of control once I gun it for a couple minutes at high speeds.

 

[nissanh]

The sediments will not flow with a flush. They are rock solid and probably covering the water/coolant passages on the top tank.

 

[Ask10]

For what it's worth, I put my thermostat in upside down at 12 o
clock (not on purpose of course) and I run Toyota Red with zero temp issues. Aftermarket gauge reads 190-200 most of the time.

 

[hour]

The sediments will not flow with a flush. They are rock solid and probably covering the water/coolant passages on the top tank.

Hmm. I just ordered a radiator for pickup tomorrow morning, I'll give it and the thermostat a whirl bright and early.

Ask10, okay.. hmm.. well, in any event, I'll try to do it the right way tomorrow... if 200 is the result of 12'oclock, I have no clue what made me run 212* for the last 6 months of ownership.

 

[nobb]

Just encountered this issue myself. Definitely was a jiggle valve problem with my t-stat. You can also inspect the clutch fan to see if it's operating properly.

You can also reuse the coolant to save a bit of money. It would be a good idea to put a piece of cloth/coffee filter over your funnel before pouring it back into the system...just to filter things a bit.

 

[tyr0981]

I had this issue last year, and i was my Radiator that was plugged up. Was a NAPA radiator i installed in a pinch like 6 years ago, i didn't like the single core from day one, felt cheap and looked it. Replaced it with a Dual core i found on Rock-auto last summer and haven't had any problems since.

Going to take her on the trails today (~80F, Sunshine) will let you know how she does with a brand new Toyo Red fluid install yesterday (since there's so little love for Green on this forum)!

:fish:

 

[TheDurk]

I had this issue last year, and i was my Radiator that was plugged up. Was a NAPA radiator i installed in a pinch like 6 years ago, i didn't like the single core from day one, felt cheap and looked it. Replaced it with a Dual core i found on Rock-auto last summer and haven't had any problems since.

Going to take her on the trails today (~80F, Sunshine) will let you know how she does with a brand new Toyo Red fluid install yesterday (since there's so little love for Green on this forum)!

:fish:

Color makes zero difference to heat removal. In fact, if your new fill is higher in percentage of ethylene glycol due to topping up the old fill with H2O, it might do worse, as water is better at heat removal than ethylene glycol. (Race cars will sometimes run just H2O.) EG is only there for freeze protection and boil prevention, and color/brand makes no difference whatsoever to those, just percentage EG vs. H2O.

The difference is strictly in corrosion inhibitors, where Red beats Green.

 

[TheDurk]

For what it's worth, I put my thermostat in upside down at 12 o clock (not on purpose of course) and I run Toyota Red with zero temp issues. Aftermarket gauge reads 190-200 most of the time.

The 6 o'clock jiggle thing is a mystery. Lots of people run it upside down with no problems as 12 o'clock is more common in general. That said, there are plenty of reports of those with HIGH temps who saw improvement by switching to 6 o'clock. As day says in Brooklyn, "Go figure!"

 

[tyr0981]

Color makes zero difference to heat removal. In fact, if your new fill is higher in percentage of ethylene glycol due to topping up the old fill with H2O, it might do worse, as water is better at heat removal than ethylene glycol. (Race cars will sometimes run just H2O.) EG is only there for freeze protection and boil prevention, and color/brand makes no difference whatsoever to those, just percentage EG vs. H2O.

The difference is strictly in corrosion inhibitors, where Red beats Green.

Mostly right, race machines use Pure DI water since it isn't slippery when spilled on the tarmac. The biggest difference for my 4runner of course was the plugged radiator! Just glad i didn't overheat badly, no steam blowing or overflow, i was VERY Concerned seeing the temp gauge that high....

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I have prestone coolant, and factory t-stat with hole at 12'O clock and run 185-188............

 

[amalik]

Isnt anything in the 200 range a bit high when OP has a B&M?

 

[TheDurk]

Mostly right, race machines use Pure DI water since it isn't slippery when spilled on the tarmac. The biggest difference for my 4runner of course was the plugged radiator! Just glad i didn't overheat badly, no steam blowing or overflow, i was VERY Concerned seeing the temp gauge that high....

Yeah, but they wouldn't use it if it dropped effectiveness:

Tech Talk #55 ? Keeping Cool | Reher Morrison Racing Engines

 

[SilverRidgeRunner1]

How do the radiator fins look like if they are all smashed u could use a tool to straighten them. key word if.

Example if they look like this with tons of bug etc caked in there this issue will happen

it will keep u guessing as to why u are running hot if the problem in fact is damaged to the radiator .

 

[hour]

Today... is a terrible day.

So, got all the parts. Got the old radiator out EASY. Removed fan shroud when I got the old rad out, gave me plenty of room. Got that stuck bolt off. But the stupid water pump pin thing came out with it. So, I broke the bolt free of the actual pin and screwed it back in. I didn't know how the hell to tighten it, it's threaded on two ends with a smooth section in the middle, and no grip on the end... so I did it finger tight and then some.

Popped out the old thermostat and compared - it's definitely OEM, and it had 99 / 3 stamped on it, where mine says 14 / 2.

Assuming it's from 1999, original thermostat haha. Anyway, whatever, put on new gasket, inserted in place, and popped thermostat housing back on. Torqued the bolts to 14 ft lbs.

Reinstalled new radiator (btw the Readyrad from Advance Auto parts is a PERFECT fit, no issues whatsoever, old bolts worked perfect, 100% ideal install). Even reused my zip ties from my old b&m, imagine that.

So I hooked everything back up, super excited. I even took photos the ENTIRE way to put up some step by step thermostat and radiator install for complete noobs guide. Added the first gallon of coolant and it started dripping from the bottom of the thermostat housing. Drained coolant again, pulled off thermostat housing.. Tstat was still seated, the gasket wasn't pinched, I literally have NO idea. It's too hard to say it's coming from the very bottom tstat housing bolt, it could be an inch behind that in the invisible void, so I worry that I haven't torqued the water pump pins adequately.. but how can I with nothing to grip? I figured it'd get torqued equally when I installed the housing.

It's still apart now, I have no idea WTF to do, reinstallation at this point would mean I've essentially done nothing different. The icing on the freakin' cake? Started hailing during the re-drain. Threw up a tarp and bungees to my fence to make some little diddle and found a head lamp to use.

So if anyone can answer semi quickly, how do you retighten the water pump pins that the tstat housing then bolts to? Do you just do them as itght as your hand can get, until it threads up to the center bare section? Any other words of wisdom greatly appreciated, this is insane! Things were going so well! And my computer is borked because I downloaded Acrobat reader to view a service manual, it installed Mccaffee antivirus which is now arguing with my Nortons :blabla: Day of hell part II.

 

[rubbertoe]

you cant lock two nuts together on it to tighten ?